AI question

[atomknight]

So why are people saying letro is not for pct?
Are these AI's for during the cycle and stoping the need for a post cycle therapy (pct)? if so, when does one start and stop this kind of treatment.

 

[DADAWG]

So why are people saying letro is not for pct?
Are these AI's for during the cycle and stoping the need for a post cycle therapy (pct)? if so, when does one start and stop this kind of treatment.

opinions differ but ai's main goal is preventing the aromatizeing of steroids/test to estrogen and if your post cycle there isnt gonna be enough hormone in your system to need a Aromatase inhibitor (AI) imo .

 

[atomknight]

Ai

At what point should one start an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) in a cycle?
2 weeks in? 2 weeks after?
Im reading never to mix novla with AI"S is this true?

 

[DADAWG]

At what point should one start an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) in a cycle?
2 weeks in? 2 weeks after?
Im reading never to mix novla with AI"S is this true?

if your not experienceing gyno/high blood pressure or EXCESSIVE bloating then dont run a Aromatase inhibitor (AI) otherwise start it when you have to and no sooner. one of the ai's and nolva impede each others effectiveness but its not gonna kill you or anything lol . i dont remember which Aromatase inhibitor (AI) is the culprit though .

 

[Lucky13]

Why wait for gyno to appear before acting ? It's hard to reverse gyno once it's started.....when starting post cycle therapy (pct) surely you would want as much free test as possible so running aromison/AIFM and nolva should speed up recovery ..aromison is also good at boosting LH so why woudn't you use it through post cycle therapy (pct)...or am I missing something ? I know estrogen is good for strength but the bloat and risk of sides doesn't seem worth the risk to me...I'd prefer leaner les risky sides.

 

[DADAWG]

Why wait for gyno to appear before acting ? It's hard to reverse gyno once it's started.....when starting post cycle therapy (pct) surely you would want as much free test as possible so running aromison/AIFM and nolva should speed up recovery ..aromison is also good at boosting LH so why woudn't you use it through post cycle therapy (pct)...or am I missing something ? I know estrogen is good for strength but the bloat and risk of sides doesn't seem worth the risk to me...I'd prefer leaner les risky sides.

people survived cycleing for years with only nolva or even nothing and thanks to the internet everyone and his brother gets gyno and has to have a Aromatase inhibitor (AI) . ai's are way overused imo and to many people try to eleminate estrogen instead of control it . which can effect gains and cholesterol not to mention many swear they get a estrogen rebound after stopping the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) . theres nothing wrong with useing a Aromatase inhibitor (AI) IF you need it but if it aint broke dont fix it ,

 

[Lucky13]

one of the ai's and nolva impede each others effectiveness but its not gonna kill you or anything lol . i dont remember which Aromatase inhibitor (AI) is the culprit though .

Is't it arimidex that can cause estrogen bounce once you start nolva ? Something about estrogen just being blocked rather then aromison which assasinates it dead.

 

[Lucky13]

which can effect gains and cholesterol ,

I know some AI's can affect cholesterol but again aromison is known not to affect HCL , I agree it can have adverse affects on gains/strength....

 

[DADAWG]

I know some AI's can affect cholesterol but again aromison is known not to affect HCL , I agree it can have adverse affects on gains/strength....

so if it can effect gains/strength and you dont need it why take it lol

 

[Lucky13]

haha ok but I woudn't risk gyno ever eveeeeeeer again..it scares me more the losing my hair

 

[atomknight]

haha ok but I woudn't risk gyno ever eveeeeeeer again..it scares me more the losing my hair

Ya I think youre right 13.
Ive had gyno before i even juiced and nolva and clomid dont do squat.
So ya If I guess for some that don't have this problem then theres nothing to fix.

 

[DADAWG]

haha ok but I woudn't risk gyno ever eveeeeeeer again..it scares me more the losing my hair

what steroid caused your gyno ?

 

[macro]

AI's are VERY effective in PCT

Nolva being promoted as post cycle therapy (pct) is one of the greatest travesties of the modern gear era. Clomifen is both superior and actually clinically established for treatment of male andropause from steroid use.

the reason that letro is not reccomended for post cycle therapy (pct) is that it suppresses estrogen TOO low and because of the rebound issue (letrozole and arimidex both upregulate aromatase production).

also agree that for many years people used no AI's or SERMS, and a good percentage of those people did not get gyno. Though over time with age and use, the percentage that dont get gyno is less and less. Use of an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) during early cycles is still essential, even just low dose for those that are not prone to gyno, because eventually most of them will.

the prone people are those that had different exposure to E and other hormones prior to use... ie people with E issues during puberty, higher than average aromatase levels, over production of GH or prolactin, high thryoid, exposure to xenoestrogen, progestenic issues, low DHT levels, etc... However over time (with age) and exposure to various AAS, most people end up in the same boat. this can be "resisted" by using the right preventative measures (including not getting fat, since fat is a good soruce of aromatase)

do agree that AI's should be used to control, not eliminate estrogen. But you really only need a small amount of E, any more just causes sides and suppresses the HPGA.

 

[macro]

one of the primary "issues" with these forums and with Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) in general, is the tendency to look at things from the "me" perspective. if the "me" is gyno prone, there is not enough Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and other measures to be reccomended. If the "me" is not gyno prone, whats everyone bitching about steroids never cause gyno. there are of course many opinions in-between, but its important for everyone to look out side of their own experience, keeping in mind that time and usage can turn the latter "me" into the former "me" with a quickness.

that exposure to the right single agent or set of conditions, can make someone who never had any gyno issues, some who laughed at 2 grams of test a week, into gyno-man.

 

[simpllyhuge]

macro was that you who was saying that aromasin or other steroidal Ai's dont work for every one? how do u tell?

 

[macro]

macro was that you who was saying that aromasin or other steroidal Ai's dont work for every one? how do u tell?

response to any drug will vary. Generally the steroidal AI's are better for most people. They may not be strong enough for some, particularly those with ultra high sulfatase conversion or secondary pathway issues (there are actually little used pathways that can synthesize estrogen, including estradiol. Steroidals dont suppress sulfatase that strongly (which is generally a good thing), so people that still get heavily bloated with steroidals, they should try letrozole (though that seems to be a pretty small percentage of people).

the only way to know how you will respond to a drug is to try it.

 

[ManOfMuscle]

one of the primary "issues" with these forums and with Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) in general, is the tendency to look at things from the "me" perspective. if the "me" is gyno prone, there is not enough Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and other measures to be reccomended. If the "me" is not gyno prone, whats everyone bitching about steroids never cause gyno. there are of course many opinions in-between, but its important for everyone to look out side of their own experience, keeping in mind that time and usage can turn the latter "me" into the former "me" with a quickness.

that exposure to the right single agent or set of conditions, can make someone who never had any gyno issues, some who laughed at 2 grams of test a week, into gyno-man.

Excellent post here. Aromasin ftw.

Macro what is your background in endocrinology?

 

[simpllyhuge]

yeah but i have a hard time telling if im bloated or not. i will think im not but looking at pictures i realize i was. Also it flucuates through out the day

 

[roccodart440]

opinions differ but ai's main goal is preventing the aromatizeing of steroids/test to estrogen and if your post cycle there isnt gonna be enough hormone in your system to need a Aromatase inhibitor (AI) imo .

I agree. You are lookingin post cycle therapy (pct) to do two things. Get your natural test levels back and return you hormones to normal. That includes estrogen. We have estrogen due to test aromatising. Now in post cycle therapy (pct) or at least when you begin it your test levels are LOW. So why would you need an AI? Not to mewntion that nolvadex is a gyno preventor. SO even if you for some reason had high estro levels entering PCT. It would alloow your body to regualte itdelf without fear of aestetic sides.

I am a proponent of clomid/nolva combo for PCT.

 

[macro]

Nolva is the second most common cause of post cycle gyno, after HCG