Always do your cardio AFTER weights!

DocJ

New member
Bottom line: you burn more fat doing cardio after weight training.
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Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2007 Feb;39(2):308-15.

Effects of Resistance Exercise on Lipolysis during Subsequent Submaximal Exercise.Goto K, Ishii N, Sugihara S, Yoshioka T, Takamatsu K.
1Department of Life Sciences, Graduate School of Arts and Sciences, University of Tokyo, Komaba, Tokyo, JAPAN; and 2Institute of Health and Sport Sciences, University of Tsukuba, Tsukuba, Ibaraki, JAPAN.

PURPOSE:: This study examined effects of prior resistance exercise on fat metabolism during subsequent submaximal exercise with different recovery periods between exercise bouts. METHODS:: Ten male subjects performed three types of exercise regimens: 1) submaximal endurance exercise only (E), 2) submaximal endurance exercise with prior resistance exercise and 20 min of rest (RE20), and 3) submaximal endurance exercise with prior resistance exercise and 120 min of rest (RE120). Resistance exercise consisted of six exercises, each with three to four sets at 10-repetition maximum. Subjects performed cycle ergometer exercise at 50% of the maximal oxygen uptake for 60 min. RESULTS:: Prior resistance exercise caused increases in blood lactate, plasma norepinephrine, serum growth hormone (GH), insulin, and glycerol concentrations (P < 0.01). Before the submaximal exercise, serum free fatty acid (FFA) concentration was higher in the RE120 than in the RE20 and E trials (P < 0.01), although concentrations of plasma norepinephrine, serum GH, insulin, and glycerol were higher in the RE20 than in the RE120 and E trials (P < 0.05). Concentrations of FFA and glycerol during the 60-min submaximal exercise were higher in the RE120 and RE20 trials than in the E trial (P < 0.05). No significant difference was observed in the acetoacetate and 3-hydroxybutyrate responses. In the RE20 trial, fat oxidation throughout the 60-min submaximal exercise (mean value) was greater than in the E trial (P < 0.05), but no significant difference was found between the RE120 and E trials. CONCLUSION:: Fat availability during the submaximal exercise was enhanced by prior resistance exercise. However, augmentation of fat oxidation was observed only in the trial with shorter rest between resistance exercise and submaximal exercise bouts (RE20 trial).

PMID: 17277595 [PubMed - in process]
 
thanks for the post!

I do chest/shoulder/tri
day off
back/bi
day off
legs
day off
repeat

I want to add 20 mintes of cardio behind my chest and back workouts. When would be the optimal time to take my whey? Before running or after all exerice?
 
I would either take it before you start the weight workout or drink it during the weight workout.
 
I'd agree with this for cutting. for bulking I'd be too worried muscle was being compromised instead of fat.

good article!
 
AngryMuscles said:
honestly, most people would be too tired/lazy to do cardio after a hard ass workout...
I am bro. I put so much into my workouts, i'm left with enough energy to get to my car outsde. I attempted cardio after my last chest workout and six minutes into the stair stepper machine, i was beat. And this comes from someone who has completed a full marathon.
 
AngryMuscles said:
honestly, most people would be too tired/lazy to do cardio after a hard ass workout...
LOL! Point taken...just remember that it's going to be low intensity, 60% or so and your heartrate is already elevated so keeping it going on a treadmill isn't going to take much. Personally, I can put the speed on 2.5 and the incline at 3.0 (or lower) and it works great.
 
AngryMuscles said:
honestly, most people would be too *LAZY* to do cardio after a hard ass workout...
Fixed.

the word to use for this is CONDITIONING...
cardio is not the demanding on a tredmil or say a seated upright stationary bike.. you do not need to go full out after a work out...like Doc said 60% is all that is needed. if some one can't do 15-30 min worth of 60% cardio after a work out some thing is wrong Conditioning wise.
 
Aczech said:
thanks for the post!
I want to add 20 mintes of cardio behind my chest and back workouts. When would be the optimal time to take my whey? Before running or after all exerice?
DocJ said:
I would either take it before you start the weight workout or drink it during the weight workout.

Hey DocJ,

I Appreciate the article.

I don't quite understand your response to Aczech's question about the whey though.

I understood Aczech's question to be asking when would the best time be to have a post W/O shake/whey - after weight training or wait until after cardio?

Thanks
 
jiff said:
Hey DocJ,

I Appreciate the article.

I don't quite understand your response to Aczech's question about the whey though.

I understood Aczech's question to be asking when would the best time be to have a post W/O shake/whey - after weight training or wait until after cardio?

Thanks

Yeah, I just made an executive decision on this one. Since I drink a 40g whey about 30 minutes before the gym....then i liked cheat like last night, went down to the locker room, drank 50g whey...let it settle for about 5 minutes..then hit the cardio for 20 minutes. Once i'm finished with cardio...it takes me about 15 minutes to leave and get home where i have another 50g shake.
 
DocJ said:
Bottom line: you burn more fat doing cardio after weight training.
---------------------------------------------------
CONCLUSION:: Fat availability during the submaximal exercise was enhanced by prior resistance exercise. However, augmentation of fat oxidation was observed only in the trial with shorter rest between resistance exercise and submaximal exercise bouts (RE20 trial).

PMID: 17277595 [PubMed - in process]

No re-feed was listed.. so I'd reckon the study basically reinforces that cardio in a fasted state (a state of low-BG basically..as pre-empted by a weight-training session) is effective.

..and It is effective for that very reason.

Much like a.m. cardio... the fasted state being the common factor.

Personally, post-workout cardio is the only kind i do.

When prepping for a contest i do 30-60 minutes pwo cardio 3-5 times per week in a cyclic fashion.

re: Cyclic...

Basically, it's a string of cardio mini-cycles.. implemented when a plateau is reached.

Very effective.
 
Aczech said:
I do chest/shoulder/tri
day off
back/bi
day off
legs
day off
repeat

Do you deadlift on Back Day?

Don't your hams/erectors get a lot of direct/indirect stimulation on both back and leg day?

I think it'd be better (CNS recovery-wise) to change your split somewhat:

Day 1: Back; Bi
Day 2: Rest
Day 3: Chest; Shoulders; Tris
Day 4: Rest
Day 5: Quads; Hams; Calves
Day 6: Rest
Day 7: Rest

Of course, this is generally most pertinent if you're doing Deads on back day.

If you aren't... continue with your split as is.


Aczech said:
I want to add 20 mintes of cardio behind my chest and back workouts. When would be the optimal time to take my whey? Before running or after all exerice?

After all exercise.

The point of a 're-feed' would be to stave off catabolism.

The catch-22 is that a refeed could spike insulin.. ceasing the release of fatty acids. i.e. You'd stop burning fat.

Whey.. because of it's speed of digestion and assimilation... and it's high content of gluconeogenic amino acids, will spike insulin.

You'd be best served hitting some ephedrine between the weight-training session and cardio.. or some BCAAs

Save the whey for post-cessation of all exercise.

-N
 
Narkissos said:
You'd be best served hitting some ephedrine between the weight-training session and cardio.. or some BCAAs

Save the whey for post-cessation of all exercise.

-N
Even taking BCAA's would qualify as "semi-fed" state. The only whey that I believe could spike insulin would be concentrate. If one is using any of the "filtered" type whey I doubt a spike would occur.
 
DocJ said:
Even taking BCAA's would qualify as "semi-fed" state.

Technically that would be true...

But for actual purposes it would not be... as there would be very little (if any) quantifiable change in blood glucose levels.

A substrate (BCAAs) would be more appropriate than whey.

DocJ said:
The only whey that I believe could spike insulin would be concentrate. If one is using any of the "filtered" type whey I doubt a spike would occur.

Not so.

Actually the spike would be higher with an isolate etc. ..as Whey concentrate (being impure), contains lactose and some fat. The Fat content influences (/slows) absorption.. so the resultant change in BG would be less than that acheived with isolate.

In the real world, the difference between two types of whey (re: BG effect) isn't much however.
 
Narkissos said:
Technically that would be true...

But for actual purposes it would not be... as there would be very little (if any) quantifiable change in blood glucose levels.

A substrate (BCAAs) would be more appropriate than whey.

Not so.

Actually the spike would be higher with an isolate etc. ..as Whey concentrate (being impure), contains lactose and some fat. The Fat content influences (/slows) absorption.. so the resultant change in BG would be less than that acheived with isolate.

In the real world, the difference between two types of whey (re: BG effect) isn't much however.

Whey is used to mollify the instances of blood sugar spikes in people with Type 2 diabetes.

Their glucose tolerance is impaired.. agreed?

It's aplicability stems from it's ability to increase insulin secretion:

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abs...STINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&journalcode=ajcn

The fact that its insulinogenic/gluconeogenic amino acid content pre-empts insulin release, makes a whey refeed between cardio and weight-training inapplicable.

-N
 
narkissos....I do deadlift on back days...but every other back workout for the cns reason. I only drink whey isolate...but you think it's be best to just wait until i'm completely finished before taking down. Thanks
 
Narkissos said:
The fact that its insulinogenic/gluconeogenic amino acid content pre-empts insulin release, makes a whey refeed between cardio and weight-training inapplicable.

-N


Thanks bro!
 
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