BULKING- Better to eat healthy but less or ALOT of anything?

becides the fact that ur like 10 years old in the first 2 pictures.. how does that show progress lol i was playing in a sand box when i was 10 ide say ur genetics got u where you are today.. i have a friend whos ripped to shit and he trains like twice a week if that.. i bust my ass 5 days a week and im not even near as close to ripped and thats DEF not ur max ...
 
becides the fact that ur like 10 years old in the first 2 pictures.. how does that show progress lol i was playing in a sand box when i was 10 ide say ur genetics got u where you are today.. i have a friend whos ripped to shit and he trains like twice a week if that.. i bust my ass 5 days a week and im not even near as close to ripped and thats DEF not ur max ...

second picture i was 19-20 years old... im 21 now.
 
from Muscle and Brawn

Most bodybuilders are obsessive compulsive. They tend to believe that you must eat clean food all of the time, at every feeding. And of course, we know that this “clean eating” involves a lot of chicken breasts, broccoli, and rice.

But gaining mass is not about clean eating. It’s about calories. Yes, you heard me right. To gain muscle mass fast, you need to supplement your training with a large amount of food. And the best way to do this is by NOT avoiding dirty foods.

Now, let’s get something straight. I’m not telling you to eat Doritos and ice cream all day long. Nope. What I am telling you is this…don’t obsess over what you eat. As long as you are getting a minimum of 30 grams of protein at least 5 times a day, and getting in some fruits and veggies, you are good to go.

You are free to eat McDonald’s double cheeseburgers off the dollar menu, and gobble Pizza Hut pizza like there’s no tomorrow. And if you want to enjoy a good old fashioned pancake, biscuit and sausage breakfast, dig in brothers and sisters of iron.

Did you know that sumo wrestlers generally have more lean muscle mass then bodybuilders? We’re talking natural athletes here, of course. Do you know that most sumo wrestlers don’t lift weights? What does this tell us about how the body packs on muscle…?

I guarantee you won’t find too many sumo wrestler who worry about their macro nutrient ratios, grams of protein per meal, or eating clean all the time.

So, am I telling you to eating like a slob the rest of your life? Of course not. But what I am telling you is this…when bulking, throw out the bodybuilding diet and the obsessive compulsive disorder that comes with it, and just start eating everything in your path. You will pack on muscle at a faster rate.

And so what if you pack on an extra 10 pounds of fat in the process. You’ll have the rest of your life to drop that weight. And no one said you can’t do cardio during your bulking to help keep extra fat off in the first place.

Bulking template. Here is my bulking template…

Eat three square meals a day, with at least 30 grams of protein at each.
Eat a HUGE meal post-workout.
Drink a couple of cups of WHOLE milk between each meal, with a scoop or two of protein powder, along with a banana. Or, drink the milk with a donut, or a snack cake from a vending machine.
Don’t worry about eating clean.
The last point is a big one. Don’t shy away from pizza or McDonalds when they are available. I have never shied away from a 5 bratwurst meal with German potato salad on the side…and I am natural and huge. You need calories to bulk, and as long as your diet is primarily clean, you should eat everything in sight.

Finally, I will leave you with some quotes…

Dante. Creator of the Doggcrapp method of training.

There was a study some years back which included 3 groups–elite sumo wrestlers who did no weight training whatsoever, advanced bodybuilders and advanced powerlifters–about 20 in each group. Now there is a lot of variables here but they took the lean muscle mass of each group and divided it by their height in inches. Surprisingly the sumo wrestlers came out well ahead of the powerlifters (2nd) and the bodybuilders (very close 3rd). This is a group who did no weight training at all but engorged themselves with food trying to bring their bodyweight up to dramatic levels. How is a group that is doing no weight training having more muscle mass per inch of height than powerlifters and bodybuilders? For anyone that doubts food is the greatest anabolic in your arsenal, you better get up to speed and on the same page as what my trainees have found out. Gee now what would happen if you actually ate to get dramatically larger like a sumo, but actually weight trained like a powerbuilder (which is what we train like), and also did enough cardio/carb cuttoffs etc to keep bodyfat at bay while doing all this? Are you guys coming around to how I think yet….in how to become the biggest bodybuilder at the quickest rate but keeping leanness on that journey?

At Large Nutrition. From At Large Nutrition’s article, Gaining Mass.

The vast majority of people understand this message to mean that if they want to build mass successfully they must consume foods which are bland, low in fat, and high in protein. They think they must follow the typical bodybuilding staple diet of plain chicken breasts, rice, plain tuna, and some vegetables. They feel they must eat ‘clean’.

The truth is that if you are natural (and you should be) and want to get big, you need to simply eat more. You also need to train properly. Proper training and the ingestion of sufficient total calories (with sufficient protein) are what will make you huge, not following some overly strict typical bodybuilding diet.

If you doubt the veracity of the above statement do the following experiment. For two months eat the prototypical perfect bodybuilding diet and follow a 6 day per week split routine which involves hitting each body part twice per week with 20 sets per body part. I am willing to bet you won’t gain an ounce of muscle and you just might lose some. Now, try something else, eat a hamburger for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Make sure to have some fries with that and wash it all down with a soda. Follow a routine which hits each body part twice per week with 2 sets taken to failure using the major compound movements (bench presses, dips, rows, squats, and deadlifts). Do that for two months and I am willing to bet you will gain 10-15 lbs of mass, most of that being solid muscle. Now, do I recommend such a diet for gaining mass, heck no, but it makes the point that proper training is as important as your diet in gaining size and getting huge!
 
I think the biggest thing people have to let go is that you cant bulk up and keep your six pack. I mean yea you can but youll be cheating yourself. Sure dont eat like a slob but get the fuck over it and eat. I honestly believe there is no such thing as bulking and staying cut or a clean bulk. Just say the 2 words over, they dont go together. Its the same as going to mcdonalds, getting a big mac and fries with a Diet Coke.
 
I think the biggest thing people have to let go is that you cant bulk up and keep your six pack. I mean yea you can but youll be cheating yourself. Sure dont eat like a slob but get the fuck over it and eat. I honestly believe there is no such thing as bulking and staying cut or a clean bulk. Just say the 2 words over, they dont go together. Its the same as going to mcdonalds, getting a big mac and fries with a Diet Coke.

dude i agree with you 100% and I could also give 2 shits about my six pack. I havent done abs in a month. Im done with skinny big, I wanna get retarded big. Only time people relize I workout at all is when im shirtless. I want to get so rediculously big that I could be wearing a 2xl sweatshirt and you can still be like WTF.... If anything I'd bulk first THEN cut, but I dont even care about being cut anymore.
 
dude i agree with you 100% and I could also give 2 shits about my six pack. I havent done abs in a month. Im done with skinny big, I wanna get retarded big. Only time people relize I workout at all is when im shirtless. I want to get so rediculously big that I could be wearing a 2xl sweatshirt and you can still be like WTF.... If anything I'd bulk first THEN cut, but I dont even care about being cut anymore.

Then listen to WTF we are telling you. Youre no alien. No super unique human being where the rules of gaining size do not apply. You just need to find the proper route that right for you, and no I dont mean gear.

Now being that you are on gear and your body is still in a "raw" state so to speak, theres no reason you cant be 180 190 in quick time. Get your diet together. Get your training in order. Get your recouperation in order. Its already apparent you have a high metabolism. Eat WTF you want while getting the proper muscle building nutrients. REDUCE YOUR TRAINING VOLUME. Train 3 days a week. Do 2 excercises per body part, and in some cases 1 with 4-5 sets with reps in the 6-8 range. If you can do more reps, UP THE WEIGHT!!! Since you are doing "less" so to speak, make EVERYONE OF THOSE FUCKING SETS COUNT. Break yourself....

Then on the days off, dont wrestle with your buddies like in the picture, or go play ball or other stupid calorie burning activities. SLEEP. RELAX. And let your body grow.

Overtraing comes from not letting your body recouperate, not cause your killing it in the gym....

Im giving you sage advice as have others in this post. Wanna go on stage for a pose off and see who the fuck knows what theyre talking about???

Good shit Drew. Good shit!
 
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I was like you growing up. Very skinny. Listen to what you're hearing dude. Just know this....if you want to b that big 90% of that kinda size you're looking for will be from food. Not gear. You're def young but I know where you're coming from. If you're serious think of it like this.

You're 160- take a cycle now- add 20 lbs- keep 10 or 12 because you don't eat enough - end at 170-172

or

eat and train like a beast for the next year- gain 20-25 lbs naturally (very possible)- then run a cycle (if you sill want to) gain 20-25 lbs bc you're diet & training is more on point- keep most of your gains bc it's your first cycle and now can eat enough to keep them- end at 200-210lbs

A) 170-172 lbs
B) 200-210 lbs the right way

You clearly want this. Fine. Want it the right way and you'll thank yourself. Do you know what I'd do for a first cycle type gains again all of which I could keep? I speak for pretty much everyone on this board who's cycled for a while when I say this. Be smart young brother.
 
excellent advice boys


although i dont want to say goodbye to my sixpack i know ill have to to be bigger. one of those "truth hurts" things
 
21 years old.....you don't need steroids AT ALL. It's a waste. You're metabolism is still probably as fast as hell hence it's harder to put on weight and steroids aren't going to change that. Keep natty till you stop growing.

Yes!!!!!!

You ask questions, then give people grief that tell you something you don't like. Pretty foolish if you ask me.

Judging by your pics, you have some good genetics. W/ good genetics, 160 is nowhere NEAR your genetic potential. If you indeed bulk w/ suffiecient calories like you say you will, I guarantee you will see great results AAS free.
 
can u eat this much???
meal1 cal/fat/carb/pro
8 large egg whites 137/0.4/1.9/28.7
2 large whole eggs 167/12.2/1.3/12.3
1 cup oats 311/5.1/54.3/13

meal2 cal/fat/carb/pro
6oz chicken breast w/o skin 177/3.8/0/33.2
1/2 tablespoon olive oil 60/6.8/0/0
1 oz (about 22 pieces) almonds 172/15.6/5/6

meal3 cal/fat/carb/pro
6oz chicken breast w/o skin 177/3.8/0/33.2
1 1/2 medium sweet potato 172/0.3/40.1/3.1

pwo cal/fat/carb/pro
whey shake 258/2/0/60
1 white bagel 270/1.7/53/10.5

meal4 cal/fat/carb/pro
8oz turkey breast 379/18.8/0/49

meal5 cal/fat/carb/pro
8oz salmon 331/13.4/0/49

meal6 cal/fat/carb/pro
6oz london broil 260/10.6/0/38.8
1/2 avocado 138/12.7/7.4/1.7

also, 3 servings of veggies daily.. the greener they are the better it is... i usually do 2 cups of brocolli.. but its your disgretion


add two other sources of carbs to meal 4 and 5.. ur choice... that'll put u at aboiut 3500 calories..

eat that for 4 weeks.. if u dont gain weight.. ill change my name...
 
I am new to this board but been around many other boards. I really like steroidology a lot mostly because of threads like this one. Many other spots people will ask questions then based on their age, stats, BODYWEIGHT etc, the questions go unanswered with someone saying "you shouldn't be doing AAS". I couldn't tell you how often I search something out site after site, find the perfect question that I want answered then have everyone on the thread disqualify the person that asked it. I will go through thread after thread for hours looking for one small bit of info then finally post the question myself only to have someone flame me by saying "that question has been answered 30 times". Sure, it probably has but its been asked 450 times so finding one of the 30 where it actually gets answered is finding a needle in a hay stack. Not to mention it gets answered with contradicting answers 30 different times so it takes awhile to figure out who to trust and what's right. At least here it seems that people will tell these kids, noobs and half-assers that they shouldn't be doing AAS, but answer the question anyway which really helps others that are looking for that same answer. Not to mention no matter how bad you flame someone you aren't going to stop them from doing what they want to do, you are just leaving them high and dry. I have only been here for about a week but its already become my default go to site. So hello and Thanks..
 
I sympathize with 160lb hardgainers because I was one. I worked at a gym and could train as much as I wanted. I could get never get over 165lb. I tried eating more but stopped when I noticed belly fat. Years later I gave up worrying about the belly fat, worked out only 4 times a week for 45 minutes low volume but heavy. But I spent every waking moment eating or drinking shakes. No aas, test boosters or anything like it. Just protein and food. I got up to 205 then settled at 195 at 15% bodyfat and a more doable eating schedule. The diet wasn't totally clean, but I had to get obssesive about eating. Measuring everything. There was no other way. Over a decade later I've since enjoyed watching aas take me up to 225lbs. I would have never guessed I could get to 195lb natural. Can't half ass it though by just eating a little more and working a little harder. Got to be obsessive about the volume of food.
 
I sympathize with 160lb hardgainers because I was one. I worked at a gym and could train as much as I wanted. I could get never get over 165lb. I tried eating more but stopped when I noticed belly fat. Years later I gave up worrying about the belly fat, worked out only 4 times a week for 45 minutes low volume but heavy. But I spent every waking moment eating or drinking shakes. No aas, test boosters or anything like it. Just protein and food. I got up to 205 then settled at 195 at 15% bodyfat and a more doable eating schedule. The diet wasn't totally clean, but I had to get obssesive about eating. Measuring everything. There was no other way. Over a decade later I've since enjoyed watching aas take me up to 225lbs. I would have never guessed I could get to 195lb natural. Can't half ass it though by just eating a little more and working a little harder. Got to be obsessive about the volume of food.

DING! DING! DING! DING! DING!

He already seems to have his mind made up though, and already has a "taste" for gear, so we're probably wasting our time, but hopefully someone else will see/read this and learn....
 
can u eat this much???
meal1 cal/fat/carb/pro
8 large egg whites 137/0.4/1.9/28.7
2 large whole eggs 167/12.2/1.3/12.3
1 cup oats 311/5.1/54.3/13

meal2 cal/fat/carb/pro
6oz chicken breast w/o skin 177/3.8/0/33.2
1/2 tablespoon olive oil 60/6.8/0/0
1 oz (about 22 pieces) almonds 172/15.6/5/6

meal3 cal/fat/carb/pro
6oz chicken breast w/o skin 177/3.8/0/33.2
1 1/2 medium sweet potato 172/0.3/40.1/3.1

pwo cal/fat/carb/pro
whey shake 258/2/0/60
1 white bagel 270/1.7/53/10.5

meal4 cal/fat/carb/pro
8oz turkey breast 379/18.8/0/49

meal5 cal/fat/carb/pro
8oz salmon 331/13.4/0/49

meal6 cal/fat/carb/pro
6oz london broil 260/10.6/0/38.8
1/2 avocado 138/12.7/7.4/1.7

also, 3 servings of veggies daily.. the greener they are the better it is... i usually do 2 cups of brocolli.. but its your disgretion


add two other sources of carbs to meal 4 and 5.. ur choice... that'll put u at aboiut 3500 calories..

eat that for 4 weeks.. if u dont gain weight.. ill change my name...

I would tell you that I can try, but I dont think thats really possible for me. I can eat that much, but not that often. Only free time I have to actualy like MAKE food are like my first meal, last meal and maaybe lunch. Is there any portable foods that you can supliment for maybe meal 2, 3, and 5 that would be sufficient?

Also earlier you said to KEEP your gains after a cycle you need 70 calories per pound instead of the regular 30 calories. What if I did what you call a "dirty bulk" AFTER a cycle? Im sure I could get an eaassy 5-6k calories and thats more then 70calories per pound. Or did you mean you need 70 clean calories per pound?
 
I would tell you that I can try, but I dont think thats really possible for me. I can eat that much, but not that often. Only free time I have to actualy like MAKE food are like my first meal, last meal and maaybe lunch. Is there any portable foods that you can supliment for maybe meal 2, 3, and 5 that would be sufficient?

Also earlier you said to KEEP your gains after a cycle you need 70 calories per pound instead of the regular 30 calories. What if I did what you call a "dirty bulk" AFTER a cycle? Im sure I could get an eaassy 5-6k calories and thats more then 70calories per pound. Or did you mean you need 70 clean calories per pound?
Why eat like shit? Your body will just look like shit. For the portable meals, make your meals and put them in a bag or container. Chicken breast, egg whites (from boiled eggs), broccoli, rice, sweet potatoes etc. They are all good cold and quite tasty...man I miss my carbs...!
 
I would tell you that I can try, but I dont think thats really possible for me. I can eat that much, but not that often. Only free time I have to actualy like MAKE food are like my first meal, last meal and maaybe lunch. Is there any portable foods that you can supliment for maybe meal 2, 3, and 5 that would be sufficient?

Also earlier you said to KEEP your gains after a cycle you need 70 calories per pound instead of the regular 30 calories. What if I did what you call a "dirty bulk" AFTER a cycle? Im sure I could get an eaassy 5-6k calories and thats more then 70calories per pound. Or did you mean you need 70 clean calories per pound?

its not about how much u eat as much as its about WHAT u eat..

everything in the diet iv posted will onlly benefit you.. if u have to eat out alot, your options become limited...

u mean to say u cant cook enough food for 3 days and carry a cooler with u?

i work 60hrs a week and go to school full time at a very very well known university.. top 15 of the us...

excuses better be good with me...
 
Why eat like shit? Your body will just look like shit. For the portable meals, make your meals and put them in a bag or container. Chicken breast, egg whites (from boiled eggs), broccoli, rice, sweet potatoes etc. They are all good cold and quite tasty...man I miss my carbs...!

..Becuase it's impossible to get 5,000 CLEAN calories a day. With junk food you can eat 2500 calories in 1 meal. If you've been reading this post 80% of people have been advising me to eat everything in site meaning JUNK (tv dinners, mcdonalds, kfc, fried foods, ice cream, ext) ... I would like to try jamyjamjr's program if its slightly tweakable, but if not I think eating everything is the best solution for me to gain as much weight as possible.
 
its not about how much u eat as much as its about WHAT u eat..

everything in the diet iv posted will onlly benefit you.. if u have to eat out alot, your options become limited...

u mean to say u cant cook enough food for 3 days and carry a cooler with u?

i work 60hrs a week and go to school full time at a very very well known university.. top 15 of the us...

excuses better be good with me...



I drive over 200 miles per day so thats why I said I can only cook first thing in the morning and at night. Im out the door around 10-11am and get home around 6-7:30 thats why I asked if theres anything you know like yogurt, string cheese, granola bars ext that i could substitute
 
its not about how much u eat as much as its about WHAT u eat..
...


Not to question you, but if thats true then why do I need 70 calories after a steroid cycle like you said to keep my gains? Why cant I keep gains with an extremely healthy 3000 calorie diet?
 
cuz your bodies TDEE rises as your lbm rises...

that's like saying why do i need more gas in my car to drive... its cuz u went from a four banger to a v8
 
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