Clomid AND Nolvadex post cycle?

[Drveejay11]

Ya, who knows? Just because we can't think of a reason why NOW, doesn't mean it isn't true. I mean, if enough guys try it both ways, and report using both SERM's together is better, then, in my opinion, we HAVE TO take note of that. Lots of ground-breaking thinking has occurred that way.

I agree

 

[LAWNSAVER]

I am in week 4 on my recovery with both clomid and n-dex. I finished my cycle 4.5 weeeks ago, which included Test/d-bol/tren for 12 weeks. Tren for the last 6. I used Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) @ 500ius every 4-5 days and I have been using the combo. I am almost done and my sex drive is back in full swing. I am really excited about my recovery, as I was sweating coming off of tren, since my horrible experience with deca!

 

[SWALE]

Lawnsaver--Were you able to maintain your testes on the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) protocol? Did you start it in the first week?

 

[LAWNSAVER]

Yes, my testicles didnt shrink at all! I used 500-750ius every 4-5 days and was able to maintian my size. Note that my atrophy is still there, but there wasnt any additonal atrophy at all. I am truely pleased with my recovery as I was on a heavy cycle.

Week 1 to 16: 12.5mg of aromasin
Week 1 to 6: 1000mg of Enan
Week 1 to 6: 35mg of D-bol
Week 7 to 12: 75mg of proviron ED
Week 7 to 12: 75mg of fina EOD
Week 7 to 12: 150mg of prop EOD
Week 13 to 16: Clomid/N-dex therapy

My recovery has been solid. I will be getting blood work done after 4-5 weeks off my HPTA therapy. I will be trying to have a baby within the next few months!

I will be using a small dose of proviron, avena sativa, Maca, and inositol during the time we will be trying!

 

[JohnnyB]

Re: Re: Clomid AND Nolvadex post cycle?

I recovered 20-30% quicker/ 10% better overall using BOTH.

Everytime I do a tren cycle....I chose recover with BOTH.

It seems like over-kill........but maybe there's something to this overkill???!!!!!?!?!?!?

What doses do you use?

JohnnyB

 

[cali]

I have two studies right in front of me which show Clomid is associated with optic neuropathy and prolonged visual disturbances, which may be irreversible.

I am now moving my patients away from Clomid in favor of Nolvadex, for this reason.

Arch Ophthalmol 1995 Apr;113(4):482-4

Fertil Steril Feb;61(2):390-1

Two comments:

(1) If these studies show that Clomid may be associated with irreversible visual disturbances, are docs still prescribing Clomid for "legitimate" uses? If so (of course they are), they must not put too much stock in these two studies or they just aren't up to date on "current" research.

(2) Isn't it disturbing how we continue to do things to our bodies even when we know there's a good chance some of it will permanently alter us for the worse? AS themselves, Clen, Clomid, and the list goes on of potentially harmful substances we ingest/inject while knowing full well we may have a high price to pay down the road... I guess we all think it'll happen to the other guy.

 

[SWALE]

1. Yes, Clomid is still used universally as a fertility drug, and also as a "test" of HP functioning (even though the results will in no way change the treatment protocol!). And certainly little has been said about the two studies I mention here within the bodybuilding community. Perhaps this issue is overshadowed because we are fighting so hard for some common sense in other areas, i.e. NOT using Arimidex post cycle, that Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is extremely beneficial and safe when used properly (that there are those who still oppose Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) even in this rare case where we enjoy an absolute wealth of knowedge from medical studies which prove same), getting guys to NOT use more Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) than they need, etc.

Truly it would be a very rare case for Clomid to present such catastrophic side effects. Otherwise, with all the Clomid being consumed each day by BB'ers all over the world, we would have had a bunch of guys fall out from it. Still, with such an excellent alternative available in Nolvadex, I would simply rather prescribe the latter (when the patient will let me).

2. There's a lot of truth in what you say, to be sure. However, we must recognize that the practices you mention, and many others as well (i.e. I love a couple really good cigars each week, and my penchant for fine scotch and great beer--especially the kind I brew myself--is well known amongst my friends), are basically "lifestyle decisions" and if we enjoy them enough while accepting the risks, that is probably the best we can shoot for. I am dedicated to minimizing the health risks of Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) use, where possible.

 

[!@#$%^&]

Swale, are you saying that nolvadex and arimidex also stimulate LH and FSH and therefore there is no reason to switch to clomid post cycle?

Exactly.

Thing im wondering is, if Clomid and Nolva both stimulate FSH and LH, why not use both. Wouldnt doubling up on recovering FSH and LH improve recovery time?

 

[cali]

Swale, Thanks for the response. I agree with just about everything you wrote.

 

[SWALE]

There is only so much estrogenic antagonism you can achieve. Beyond that, you are wasting money and exposing yourself to unnecessary dose-dependent side effects.

 

[Bustanut]

I am currently in my first week of post cycle therapy (pct) from 8 weeks enanthate, which I followed with 4 weeks of tren/prop. I am taking 50mg clomid twice daily and 10mg Nolva twice daily. (100mg ED / 20mg ED). I will halve this dosage when my first week of post cycle therapy (pct) is complete. I've been off cycle for 5 days now.

So far I think it's going good. I lost my sex drive for one day only, on my 3rd day off. These past couple of days, it's been hyperactive, just like I was still using the gear. So either the gear has not cleared my system yet and is still affecting me, or my recovery is somewhat of a miracle. I'm hoping for the latter.

 

[Sic]

I have two studies right in front of me which show Clomid is associated with optic neuropathy and prolonged visual disturbances, which may be irreversible.

I am now moving my patients away from Clomid in favor of Nolvadex, for this reason.

Arch Ophthalmol 1995 Apr;113(4):482-4

Fertil Steril Feb;61(2):390-1

So I haven't read the articles yet but i am wondering - if in basic terms Nova stop oestrogen and clomid starts up your natural test. Would taking something like tribulus or D-aspartic Acid help restart your natural test as an alternative to clomid?Woul it work just as well?

Came across this post when looking for some PCT advice and hopefully someone can revive and come back with an answer for me

 

[jozifp103]

So I haven't read the articles yet but i am wondering - if in basic terms Nova stop oestrogen and clomid starts up your natural test. Would taking something like tribulus or D-aspartic Acid help restart your natural test as an alternative to clomid?Woul it work just as well?

Came across this post when looking for some PCT advice and hopefully someone can revive and come back with an answer for me

first of all, this is an 11 year old thread. second, no. tribulus does NOT increase your testosterone. DAA can help but will not help you recover the way clomid and nolva will.

 

[PrinceDianabol]

Nolva & clomid should always be used together for PCT. They have a synergestic effect when combined, and is far superior to either of them solo. Nolva increases the frequency, not amplitude of the LH signal. Whereas clomid does the opposite. In short, your best chance at a fast recovery is dual serm therapy. No doubts about.

And to whoever mentioned nolva only pct is sufficient... That was a stupid statement. If for whatever reason you were only gonna use one, clomid would be the better option. Its far superior at stimulating the pituatry than nolva. But not as good as both obviously.