How would you say 600mg Eq relates to 250mg Deca? Based on how you have reacted to both drugs at various doses.
Deca and Eq users
- Thread starter Perfection Awaits
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passthetest
New member
It depends on how long you take the compounds. Assuming that you would run them each for 15 weeks with some sort of test, I would for sure take the 600 of eq over 250 deca. 250 mgs a week of deca is hardly anabolic at all, the eq will give you a steady amount of solid muscle build up with minimal water weight.
You're probably right. Only major upside to the deca is it would be wayyyyy cheaper. Shits not easy to come by these days.
gator_mclusky
Man on a Mission
Tough to say as I always have done 600 ngs EQ and 400 eq with some test.
Great combo though!
gator
Great combo though!
gator
Thanks gator. Yea ive never ran low dose deca to be able to know.
Yea i know...I am looking for something to take long term with testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), with relatively low cost, and noticeable effects. I think Eq would be my best bet...but at 600mg/week it could get expensive. I was seeing is anything who has taken 200-250mg deca has seen any type of additional effects other than some lubricated joints. I am not looking to blow up, or even really to "cycle". I just want something to run about 20 weeks while on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), with slow but noticable gains. Also i want to kinda stay away from tren...just because I could be on 10g androgel packets for another few months, and my DHT is high enough. Although, if I had 20 weeks of tren e, I imagine i wouldnt care to much lol.
Yea...youre probably right.
JayC
..in the making
OK, now that makes alot more sense! In that case, I think you are much better off with Deca then EQ..IMHO I know several good bro's (2 of which are on Doc directed HRT) and the ones that are prescribed more then just test, are also given low dose nandrolone (Deca). I believe their dose is 200mg/week and one has been running that over 2 years (not that you want to run it that long but you get the point). I'm a huge fan of running lower doses longer and besides nice healthy lub'd joints, you'll see other positive effects. Nothing drastic but enough to achieve what you are probably looking for.
Thanks JayC. I was hoping someone would say that.
StoneColdNTO
Administrator
I agree, especially after reading this;
(originally posted by AnimalMass)
While injecting test increases protein synthesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.
Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.
Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen synthesis while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.
Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.
You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.
Deca, Equipoise, Anavar, and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.
While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.
To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.
Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood.
Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.
Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.
Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.
These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle Clomid use. Here they are:
Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days
Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.
GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.
Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.
Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain AAS -- the decision is up to you.
DAM GOOD POST. Where do you find these articles? You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to StoneColdNTO again.
Thats a pretty low dose for Eq. But it's not for mass gains but callogen syn increase
indrid_cold17
New member
why are you under hrt in the 1st place bro i am curious...
JayC
..in the making
That post is a classic around here!
I actually remember reading it a year ago and it sparked me to do more research on running either Deca or Var (low dose) long term with low(er) dose test/TRT. For my purpose (and if you can afford or find cheap) I found Var to be the perfect choice. Besides the pro's mentioned in SC's post, I found medical studies that had child aged burn victims taking it daily for 6-12 months and more with practically no ill/side effects. That post should be floating around here as well 
Yea i read that one as well. I remember the thread you started with it.
I plan on using 200-250mg deca for about 6 months with TRT. My joints need it, and maybe it will give me a good boost. Right now Androgel just isnt cutting it. I will make sure I am on only test when I get any bloodwork done.
I plan on using 200-250mg deca for about 6 months with TRT. My joints need it, and maybe it will give me a good boost. Right now Androgel just isnt cutting it. I will make sure I am on only test when I get any bloodwork done.
StoneColdNTO
Administrator
That post is a classic around here!
Yes, I first posted it here Dec 26/05
I wonder which would yield worse sides on my body long term...200mg deca or 600mg eq.
Side note. I read the pamphlet on Oxandrin (anavar) today. They make it sound like rat poison lol. Side effects were awful.
Also, i read that they were yanking off deca from being available via prescription in 2009. Anyone else hear this?
Side note. I read the pamphlet on Oxandrin (anavar) today. They make it sound like rat poison lol. Side effects were awful.
Also, i read that they were yanking off deca from being available via prescription in 2009. Anyone else hear this?
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