Deca and Nova? a no no?

[Biggin]

I advise people that it shouldn't make any difference, that a SERM should work just fine to control estrogen while taking 19-nors.

I really don't give a shit what U advise honestly, don't come my way with Ur bullshit!

 

[Conciliator]

Ain't nobody looking to fuckin argue tonite bro, U can carry that shit back with U when U leave!!

What are you going on about? It's pretty simple what I said. He shouldn't be praised for referencing what he said when he didn't actually say it... he cut and pasted it, including the references, without giving credit. Now why are you getting your panties all in a bunch? Chill out.

 

[Ythrashin]

Not quite. He didn't write that himself. He cut and pasted it from AG Guys. He should have given credit and made it clear that it was a quote.

Also, how can you put any faith in what was written when they they admit they're making up the word "progesteronic" (instead of using the correct word "progestogenic" or "progestational")?

I didnt know that was mother fricken Comp class! I stated:

Yeah, unfortunately that is the only write up I could find that had a in body citation. Everything else just gives the info without a reference...

I was looking for any article or write up with references that had any info about PgR upreg with Nolva.

I'm still on the lookout for some.

 

[Conciliator]

I really don't give a shit what U advise honestly

Oh, I'm not surprised. The best bros are those who hold tenaciously to dogma and who turn a blind eye to reason and evidence. Hold tight to the bro-lore bro! lol

 

[Liftbig11]

Yeah really just calm down and get out if you cant keep the peace tonight. Go smoke one or somethin chill out!

 

[Liftbig11]

I'm pretty sure everyone understood that he was just bringing an article into the conversation.

 

[Ythrashin]

What are you going on about? It's pretty simple what I said. He shouldn't be praised for referencing what he said when he didn't actually say it... he cut and pasted it, including the references, without giving credit. Now why are you getting your panties all in a bunch? Chill out.

I didn't think I was getting praised for writing the damn thing! I thought I got praised for finding something that supported not using Nolva with a 19-nor. Its passed from word of mouth all over the net there has to be more concrete research or article out there supporting that fact... It could be a online myth but I doubt it.

 

[Biggin]

Oh, I'm not surprised. The best bros are those who hold tenaciously to dogma and who turn a blind eye to reason and evidence. Hold tight to the bro-lore bro! lol

I hold tenaciously to nothing, and turn a blind eye to nothing. Seems U hold tight to bro-lore, or U just wanna argue, guru?? Either way son, to each his own, so carry on, guru??

 

[Conciliator]

I didnt know that was mother fricken Comp class! I stated:

I don't think you were claiming to have written it yourself. You clearly acknowledged it was from another source in a later post. But as you can see, it was enough to confuse the people reading this thread as to who wrote it. I'm simply saying that you didn't write it (as you implied) and that was from AG Guys (which you didn't mention).

I was looking for any article or write up with references that had any info about PgR upreg with Nolva.

I'm still on the lookout for some.

There are several showing up-regulation in endometrial tissue. As I've explained, that tells us essentially nothing about what happens in breast tissue. There are one or two papers suggesting mean up-regulation in breast tissue in women, though the underlying data show a large percentage have down-regulation of PgR. I can get the references for those papers if you're interested.

 

[Conciliator]

Its passed from word of mouth all over the net there has to be more concrete research or article out there supporting that fact...

Yes, Eric's article has started the ball rolling.

It could be a online myth but I doubt it.

All it takes is one bad article where the author gives references that seem to support his conclusion, but that really don't. The lemmings who never bother to look up a reference will take it at face value and an online myth is born. It happens all the time. Half of the stuff out there on DNP is nothing more than online myth, which got started in bad users guides.

 

[Biggin]

Post em, so U can have Ur little claim to fame..

 

[Ythrashin]

I don't think you were claiming to have written it yourself. You clearly acknowledged it was from another source in a later post. But as you can see, it was enough to confuse the people reading this thread as to who wrote it. I'm simply saying that you didn't write it (as you implied) and that was from AG Guys (which you didn't mention).

I think you were the only one I confused...lol Yep and I found that on AG-guys. I beg for everyones forgiveness for not mentioning that...

There are several showing u-pregulation in endometrial tissue. As I've explained, that tells us essentially nothing about what happens in breast tissue. There are one or two papers suggesting mean up-regulation in breast tissue in women, though the underlying data show a large percentage have down-regulation of PgR. I can get the references for those papers if you're interested.

Please...

 

[Shaptown]

hey guys i got a ring too and it says love. EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY

 

[Conciliator]

Please...

This paper probably has the most explicit statement to the affirmative on tamoxifen and PgR in mammary tumors, saying "Thus, immuno-staining for progesterone receptor (PgR) is reduced in almost all cases by aromatase inhibitors, becoming undetectable in many. This contrasts with effects of tamoxifen in which the most common change on PgR is to increase expression." In table 3, we see that 24% the tamoxifen group had down-regulation of the PgR, 26% had no change, and 50% showed up-regulation. The full text of the paper explains, "In a small series of PgR-positive cancers treated with tamoxifen, a different pattern of change was seen. Thus, only 17% of cases showed a decrease and the most common change was a paradoxical increase in staining." They explain in the conclusion that this was a "paradoxical" or unexpected result and "may therefore represent early evidence of resistance to [tamoxifen] treatment." In other words, it may be because the tissue being tested was a mammary tumor, which can mutate and become resistant to tamoxifen.

In another paper on tamoxifen administration and PgR, again in breast cancer in women, 40% (21/52) had an increase in PgR, 37%(19/52) has a decrease in PgR, and the remaining (12/52) were negative for the receptor.

In contrast to those papers, this study found what they described as "a modest decline" in PgR levels in all three histologies they tested with tamoxifen treatment, though it failed to achieve statistical significance (p values of .19, .82, and .15). The abstract explains that "There were trends for reductions in ER and PgR..."

I know there are other places where I've seen down-regulation of PgR in breast tissue. I'll do a little more research and see if I can dig up some more references when I have some free time.

 

[Ythrashin]

Very cool I appreciate the info... I've found its a hard subject to find concrete info on.

 

[Biggin]

In all honesty, no matter how much we argue or what not, there's always good info that comes out, and is beneficial to everybody, with that being said, "looks like I didn't turn a blind eye to Ur post, so U can scratch that remark from Ur list Conciliator. Next we can scratch the dogma issue when that arises, lmao! Like I said, always beneficial info comes out in the end. Doesn't change how I feel about runnin Nolva whist on Deca, Tren, etc.. That's just my opinion! But I do see where U coming from..

 

[steve169872]

Please keep it up!!!!!!!!!

I have several people i spoke with that had no problems. Please keep the post coming

 

[Ythrashin]

I see no need to run Nolva during a cycle to control estrogen in the first place unless that is the only thing you can get your hands on. An Aromatase inhibitor (AI) like Aromasin or Adex is the way to go.
Save Nolva for PCT.

 

[jjtattoofreak]

awwwwwwwwwww fuck he s back, did nt we just go through this shit, or am I having de ja vue................ I swear, Y thrashin , you are a teribble man and a copy paster you abomonation , you are so fired right now from your computer , go to the gym and work out and report to me tomorrow for the rest of your punishment...... lmfao.....

 

[Dragon_MD]

Just google tamoxifen and progesterone and you will find the studies that show it up regulates receptors. Besides, tamoxifen only blocks the estrogen receptors in breast tissue and allows more estrogen to float around free. This up-regulates progesterone receptors. This is of course a non scientific explanation, but if you research it your self you will find I am correct. It also reduces IGF-1. Nov is poop.

And again, serms do not reduce estrogen, they only occupy the receptors in certain tissues. Only AI's reduce estrogen.

So Conciliator, I have no idea where you get your info from, but I suggest doing some more research instead of what I think to be a lot of assuming.