JimiThing
Moderator
Did you even read the quote I posted by Nandi? You really should. The man was a genius. If you need help understanding it ill be more than happy to explain it to you (srs - not being sarcastic). Let me know.
deca-dick
- Thread starter Lunaticfringe
- Start date
Did you even read the quote I posted by Nandi? You really should. The man was a genius. If you need help understanding it ill be more than happy to explain it to you (srs - not being sarcastic). Let me know.
bigpapabuff
New member
Yes its generally better to have test higher then deca. but no issue going low on test if it dosen't effect you badly. some can't use deca at all no matter how much test, others can run it solo and be rock hard with high libido ( I dont rec BTW)
But I agree with them on the rest, you need to take a second look at your info.
But I agree with them on the rest, you need to take a second look at your info.
Die$eL~Man
Straight Up Gangster !
I would keep my test higher than deca. Thats just my opinion.
Santaklaus
RUI-Products Supporter
Thank you Jesus... I'm starting to think I'm the crazy one in stating that usually Test should be run higher than deca...
Santaklaus
RUI-Products Supporter
I would love to hear some of the other Vets opinions from this site. For my personal edification at the least...
4everBulking
New member
i always run test lower than deca,i use a testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) dose on deca,i use just enough test to keep me from having the shut down sides like DECA DICK.
Santaklaus
RUI-Products Supporter
Can someone explain to me why?? That's all I really want to know... What is the logic behind running a higher dose of Deca? I explained my reasoning for keeping my test higher. I don't see why anyone would run higher deca. So if any of you supporters of the idea could chime in, I would love to know what the reasoning is. Elevated estro should never be an issue while running test if you are running a proper Aromatase inhibitor (AI). That's how I understand it anyways...
zephyr_987
New member
hey bro, there is a thread in the anabolic recovery section that has dosages for increasing collagen synthesis during a cycle. i have seen this very same thread in at least 5 different places on the internet. it doesnt site any sources which is a real bummer but is a very interesting read none the less. i found it when i was googling what meds increase collagen syn because i have been plagued with knee injuries for yrs. anyway, it says that running test @ 200mg a wk will increase collagen while running it more that 200 (average dose is 500mg) will decrease it by 80% giving u the ligament strength of an 80yr old man. deca run @ 3 mg/kg a week increases collagen by 270%, primo @ 5 mg/kg =180%,EQ @ 3 mg/kg = 340%, Anavar (var) also increases it ... goes on to state hgh as king for rehab (which im sure no one will disagree). I wish that whoever posted that thread had listed their sources because i have no idea if this is all 100% true. i hope it is!! anyway, to answer your question, a reason why someone would run deca higher than test is that they r trying to treat, prevent an injury. is deca dick the only side someone would experience running a cycle like this: test 200mg/wk, deca 300-600mg a wk, and say a prolactin inhibitor and Aromatase inhibitor (AI) at hand ?
JimiThing
Moderator
1- deca is the more powerful steroid ..let it do the lions share of the work
2- while you can mange e with an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) ..the higher the test the harder to manage it ..esp without blood work. Estrogen is at the root of the issue. Lower test lowers possibility of sides (even deca dick). Deca does NOT increase prolactin. Neither does tren. Its a common misunderstanding. If you read the post by Nandi it explains it pretty well.
Santaklaus
RUI-Products Supporter
This is straight from Wikipedia. I know their info. is good. No offense, but I don't know who Nandi is and I'd rather get my facts from a trusted source such as Wikipedia.
The positive effects of the drug include muscle growth, appetite stimulation and increased red blood cell production and bone density. Clinical studies have shown it to be effective in treating anaemia, osteoporosis and some forms of neoplasia including breast cancer, and also acts as a progestin-based contraceptive. For these reasons,[citation needed] in the United States nandrolone received FDA approval in 1983.
Because nandrolone is not broken down into DHT, the deleterious effects common to most anabolic steroids on the scalp, skin, and prostate are lessened to a degree; but is rather broken down to the much weaker androgen dihydronandrolone. The lack of alkylation on the 17***945;-carbon drastically reduces the drug's liver toxicity. Estrogenic effects resulting from reaction with aromatase are also reduced due to lessened enzyme interaction [1], but effects such as gynaecomastia and reduced libido still occur in larger doses because of other mechanisms. Other side-effects of abuse can include erectile dysfunction and cardiovascular damage, as well as several ailments resulting from the drug's effect of lowering levels of luteinizing hormone through negative feedback. Erectile dysfunction is attributed to the weaker action of dihydronandrolone in the penis since dihydrotestosterone is a known sexual modulator.
I sounds like they are referring directly to the drug causing prolactin sides and not estrogen related..
The positive effects of the drug include muscle growth, appetite stimulation and increased red blood cell production and bone density. Clinical studies have shown it to be effective in treating anaemia, osteoporosis and some forms of neoplasia including breast cancer, and also acts as a progestin-based contraceptive. For these reasons,[citation needed] in the United States nandrolone received FDA approval in 1983.
Because nandrolone is not broken down into DHT, the deleterious effects common to most anabolic steroids on the scalp, skin, and prostate are lessened to a degree; but is rather broken down to the much weaker androgen dihydronandrolone. The lack of alkylation on the 17***945;-carbon drastically reduces the drug's liver toxicity. Estrogenic effects resulting from reaction with aromatase are also reduced due to lessened enzyme interaction [1], but effects such as gynaecomastia and reduced libido still occur in larger doses because of other mechanisms. Other side-effects of abuse can include erectile dysfunction and cardiovascular damage, as well as several ailments resulting from the drug's effect of lowering levels of luteinizing hormone through negative feedback. Erectile dysfunction is attributed to the weaker action of dihydronandrolone in the penis since dihydrotestosterone is a known sexual modulator.
I sounds like they are referring directly to the drug causing prolactin sides and not estrogen related..
JimiThing
Moderator
They dont mention prolactin at all. nandrolone is 5 alpha reduced to dhn. Test is 5 alpha reduced to dht. DHN is a wekaer androgen than dht. The last sentence would only apply if nandrolone was taken on its own, with no test. Meaning Nandrolone shut down test production which results in no dht. However it 5 alpha reduces to dhn ..which isnt a potent enough androgen to maintain sexual function (as dht is).
Ok - new question: I started pinning my new cycle yesterday. NPP 100mg/e3d, and TPP 150mg/e3d, which I think is a pretty commonly established protocol. What are things to look for that might support inverting the ratio to running the NPP on the higher side? Or is the only solution to run a cycle one way, then the other and then compare results?
JimiThing
Moderator
Try both ..see what works best for you. Next time flip flop dsoages.
Santaklaus
RUI-Products Supporter
lol... Here we go again... I'm done arguing this point so let me phrase it like this... I prefer to run my test higher than MY deca. So if that were MY cycle I would run 250 TPP e3d and 100 NPP e3d and run adex with it
I had also only heard the test higher than deca rule until this thread - that's why my cycle was set up this way. However, I'm fairly, well somewhat, open-minded and willing to hear others experiences and willing to learn. That's why I asked if there were any "signs" or evidence to look for that might indicate one way would be better than the other. I'm willing to accept that things might work better, or at least differently, for separate individuals. I based the dosages on a thread by vet on this board with MANY years of experience. Further info is that I'm 48 and taking testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) test at 200mg/wk. The tpp and npp are stacked on top of that. I'm also taking adex at .25mg e3d. Regular blood work as well to keep track of e.
SquadLeader
POWER HOUSE
You want to keep Testosterone higher than nandrolones due to the raise in prolactin and progesterone from using them. Higher testosterone will give you the advantage over the nandrolone it will give you the ability still be able to achieve erections, and help keep prolactin gyno from occuring. Which if it does Cabergoline is the drug you would need to combat that.
JimiThing
Moderator
Testosterone does exactly the opposite of what you are saying. Nandrolones dont raise prolactin...at all. There is no such thing as prolactin gyno in the abscence of elevated estrogen.
Santaklaus
RUI-Products Supporter
I see. Well if you are always running 200mg of your testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) test/week then your test is higher then your deca anyways. So in my opinion your cycle is set up perfectly as it is...
zephyr_987
New member
so to answer my question, the sides that i would be looking at running deca higher than test are: 1. deca dick 2. prolactin induced gyno in which one would use caber. thanks
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