Does creatine loose its effectiveness??
- Thread starter joshbeam1
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Biceps_Blitz
New member
Bast said:
Don't be such a smartass. I didn't say I was right, I said that's what I think from what I noticed by personal experience. I mailed the question to my nutritionist, he will straighten this crap out.
If what all you guys say is true, then why don't you provide a link to a research that proves it?
Biceps_Blitz
New member
DirkMoneyshot said:
Yeah you're right, I should read up on anatomy and physiology. There's always more to learn! Thanks for the tip.
I questioned the effectiveness of Dante... Yeah, so what? Can't I ask questions and be skeptic when someone comes out and calls himself the most hardcore and most effective training method in the world? Dante is a f3cking asshole. Arrogant as shit, and he has his internet buddies ridicule people who ask questions about the theory of the program.
Ontopic: I mailed my nutritionist about the creatine stuff, let's see what he has to say
DirkMoneyshot
Well-known member
Wow you e-mailed your "nutritionist" hence some moron most likely.
I'd like you to see where you get the idea that you need 5lbs of Red meat to get 2g of creatine.
The last time i checked - 1 lb of Red Meat contained about 2g of creatine.
This another one of your nutritionist brain farts or yours.
I'd like you to see where you get the idea that you need 5lbs of Red meat to get 2g of creatine.
The last time i checked - 1 lb of Red Meat contained about 2g of creatine.
This another one of your nutritionist brain farts or yours.
DirkMoneyshot
Well-known member
I've never seen dante claim his program was anything -
Hell i've always thought he is pretty humble....Maybe your looking in the wrong direction.
I might not agree with everything with what he does, but for you to question his results is a tad bit arrogant. Considering your level of development.
Hell i've always thought he is pretty humble....Maybe your looking in the wrong direction.
I might not agree with everything with what he does, but for you to question his results is a tad bit arrogant. Considering your level of development.
Biceps_Blitz
New member
DirkMoneyshot said:
Why are you being such a dick? Shouldn't you be nice to set an example as a moderator?
My nutritionist is BodyFx2, he's well known on Muscle Mayhem... I didn't get that from him, the creatine in red meat. It was just an exaggeration to show how hard it is to get a decent amount of creatine from food... Who eats more than a lb of red meat every day?
and then you only have 2 grams!I'm sure Bodyfx has a lot more experience and knowledge than you my friend, so don't be so cocky... "This another one of your nutritionist brain farts or yours."
Biceps_Blitz
New member
DirkMoneyshot said:
Ah jesus not this again... How many times do I have to explain that stuff...
I get misquoted, words are turned around and such. I don't even care any more.
Read his articles, that will show you how humble he really is....
"Bulking - An excuse for becoming a fat fuck for the sake of putting on muscle to yourself and others"
Just one of the many "you're not doing it my way so you're an idiot" remarks he makes.
Biceps_Blitz
New member
Here's a research conducted by one of our fine Dutch universities
Few adverse effects of long-term creatine supplementation in a placebo-controlled trial:
Groeneveld GJ, Beijer C, Veldink JH, Kalmijn S, Wokke JH, van den Berg LH.
Department of Neurology, University Medical Centre Utrecht, The Netherlands.
Although oral creatine supplementation is very popular among athletes, no prospective placebo-controlled studies on the adverse effects of long-term supplementation have yet been conducted. We performed a double-blind, placebo-controlled trial of creatine monohydrate in patients with the neurodegenerative disease amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, because of the neuroprotective effects it was shown to have in animal experiments. The purpose of this paper is to compare the adverse effects, and to describe the effects on indirect markers of renal function of long-term creatine supplementation. 175 subjects (age = 57.7 +/- 11.1 y) were randomly assigned to receive creatine monohydrate 10 g daily or placebo during an average period of 310 days. After one month, two months and from then on every fourth month, adverse effects were scored using dichotomous questionnaires, plasma urea concentrations were measured, and urinary creatine and albumin concentrations were determined. No significant differences in the occurrence at any time of adverse effects due to creatine supplementation were found (23 % nausea in the creatine group, vs. 24 % in the placebo group, 19 % gastro-intestinal discomfort in the creatine group, vs. 18 % in the placebo group, 35 % diarrhoea in the creatine group, vs. 24 % in the placebo group). After two months of treatment, oedematous limbs were seen more often in subjects using creatine, probably due to water retention. Severe diarrhoea (n = 2) and severe nausea (n = 1) caused 3 subjects in the creatine group to stop intake of creatine, after which these adverse effects subsided. Long-term supplementation of creatine did not lead to an increase of plasma urea levels (5.69 +/- 1.47 before treatment vs. 5.26 +/- 1.44 at the end of treatment) or to a higher prevalence of micro-albuminuria (5.4 % before treatment vs. 1.8 % at the end of treatment).
Few adverse effects of long-term creatine supplementation in a placebo-controlled trial:
Groeneveld GJ, Beijer C, Veldink JH, Kalmijn S, Wokke JH, van den Berg LH.
Department of Neurology, University Medical Centre Utrecht, The Netherlands.
Although oral creatine supplementation is very popular among athletes, no prospective placebo-controlled studies on the adverse effects of long-term supplementation have yet been conducted. We performed a double-blind, placebo-controlled trial of creatine monohydrate in patients with the neurodegenerative disease amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, because of the neuroprotective effects it was shown to have in animal experiments. The purpose of this paper is to compare the adverse effects, and to describe the effects on indirect markers of renal function of long-term creatine supplementation. 175 subjects (age = 57.7 +/- 11.1 y) were randomly assigned to receive creatine monohydrate 10 g daily or placebo during an average period of 310 days. After one month, two months and from then on every fourth month, adverse effects were scored using dichotomous questionnaires, plasma urea concentrations were measured, and urinary creatine and albumin concentrations were determined. No significant differences in the occurrence at any time of adverse effects due to creatine supplementation were found (23 % nausea in the creatine group, vs. 24 % in the placebo group, 19 % gastro-intestinal discomfort in the creatine group, vs. 18 % in the placebo group, 35 % diarrhoea in the creatine group, vs. 24 % in the placebo group). After two months of treatment, oedematous limbs were seen more often in subjects using creatine, probably due to water retention. Severe diarrhoea (n = 2) and severe nausea (n = 1) caused 3 subjects in the creatine group to stop intake of creatine, after which these adverse effects subsided. Long-term supplementation of creatine did not lead to an increase of plasma urea levels (5.69 +/- 1.47 before treatment vs. 5.26 +/- 1.44 at the end of treatment) or to a higher prevalence of micro-albuminuria (5.4 % before treatment vs. 1.8 % at the end of treatment).
Biceps_Blitz said:Yeah you're right, I should read up on anatomy and physiology. There's always more to learn! Thanks for the tip.
I questioned the effectiveness of Dante... Yeah, so what? Can't I ask questions and be skeptic when someone comes out and calls himself the most hardcore and most effective training method in the world? Dante is a f3cking asshole. Arrogant as shit, and he has his internet buddies ridicule people who ask questions about the theory of the program.
Ontopic: I mailed my nutritionist about the creatine stuff, let's see what he has to say
Please post some links where Dante calls himself "most hardcore and most effective training method in the world" I would like to read it.
What I have read from Dante is that his program is designed to pack on the most amount of muscle in the shortest period of time. He has never once said his program isn't the best, simply because it isn't for everyone. It is designed for the veteran/hardcore lifter.
Now I have heard MANY other people call DC training "most hardcore and most effective training method in the world", but not DC himself.
Biceps_Blitz said:
Here is your problem:
You are argueing about something you know nothing about.
Most before/after pics I have seen of Dante's trainees they are either leaner in the after or the same bf%. I don't see too many of them getting fat, but the ones that tend to put on too much bf admit they didn't follow the cardio rule and carb cut off.
BB, you need to show us how its done. Give us some transition pics of you over the next year. I'd like to see how its really done!
Biceps_Blitz
New member
Easto said:
It doesn't even matter what I say, does it? I will be called a 20-year-old punk and because I don't look like Flex Wheeler everything I say is bullshit...
I like Dante's training actually. I DO know what I'm talking about, since I got a hold of his personal emails he sent to someone with all the info about his methods, including diet. I trained DC style for a couple of months. It's actually a good method, but after I while I felt like I should do something else. So now I'm doing somewhat higher volume. I notice this has improved my delts mostly.
I didn't like him anymore when he started acting all arrogant and shit, and when his internet buddies started bashing me because I wanted to know why rest-pausing is the best intensity method according to him... I asked why aren't forced reps or negatives incorporated in the system...
That's why I think he's a dickhead. Because of the attitude.
And I can quote so many things from him that prove that he thinks his shit is the best and that people who are training with multiple exercises are ineffective etc etc etc... Why doesn't he tell that to Ronnie, Jay, Dexter etc?
Biceps_Blitz said:It doesn't even matter what I say, does it? I will be called a 20-year-old punk and because I don't look like Flex Wheeler everything I say is bullshit...
I like Dante's training actually. I DO know what I'm talking about, since I got a hold of his personal emails he sent to someone with all the info about his methods, including diet. I trained DC style for a couple of months. It's actually a good method, but after I while I felt like I should do something else. So now I'm doing somewhat higher volume. I notice this has improved my delts mostly.
I didn't like him anymore when he started acting all arrogant and shit, and when his internet buddies started bashing me because I wanted to know why rest-pausing is the best intensity method according to him... I asked why aren't forced reps or negatives incorporated in the system...
That's why I think he's a dickhead. Because of the attitude.
And I can quote so many things from him that prove that he thinks his shit is the best and that people who are training with multiple exercises are ineffective etc etc etc... Why doesn't he tell that to Ronnie, Jay, Dexter etc?
Good luck with whatever you do
DirkMoneyshot
Well-known member
Wow you should be proud of your self for taking information that someone has spent a lifetime acquiring and uses to make a living. Your a class Act.
Also i would say most people getting 1.5g of protein / day would easily get 2 lb of Meat / day.
Your right i know who bodyfx2 is: He's a very nice guy - But i do know that his methods are very very basic. (which is nothing wrong with) He just doesn't know how to maximize some things - IE: Quoting (That fruit SHOULD be eliminated from contest diets)
Also i would say most people getting 1.5g of protein / day would easily get 2 lb of Meat / day.
Your right i know who bodyfx2 is: He's a very nice guy - But i do know that his methods are very very basic. (which is nothing wrong with) He just doesn't know how to maximize some things - IE: Quoting (That fruit SHOULD be eliminated from contest diets)
Behemoth
New member
Anyway, you are wrong on a couple points:
long term use of creatine causes the body to "shut down it's production of creatine" or something like that. No, because the body doesn't produce creatine. Think of it like any other vitamin, mineral or anything you take in to your body. For instance, taking a multivitamin everyday doesn't cause your body to forgot how to extract all those vitamins from your diet.
Also, you said it is really hard to get all your creatine from your diet...
Okay, now remember, we are body builders - hence most of use take at at least 1 gram of protein per pound that we weigh. A lot of us eat a LOT more than that. That means a lot of red meat and stuff like that in your diet. Play connect the dots here a minute and figure out how easy it would be to get most of your creatine through diet.
Oh, I see Dirk already answered that part. Oh well. Anyway, that study you posted is done on a specific group of people. I'd prefer to see one done on bodybuilders instead. That would be a lot more applicable to this argument. But either way, I'm not sure what in that study was applicable to this debate anyway. There was nothing in there about effectiveness in the long term.
long term use of creatine causes the body to "shut down it's production of creatine" or something like that. No, because the body doesn't produce creatine. Think of it like any other vitamin, mineral or anything you take in to your body. For instance, taking a multivitamin everyday doesn't cause your body to forgot how to extract all those vitamins from your diet.
Also, you said it is really hard to get all your creatine from your diet...
Okay, now remember, we are body builders - hence most of use take at at least 1 gram of protein per pound that we weigh. A lot of us eat a LOT more than that. That means a lot of red meat and stuff like that in your diet. Play connect the dots here a minute and figure out how easy it would be to get most of your creatine through diet.
Oh, I see Dirk already answered that part. Oh well. Anyway, that study you posted is done on a specific group of people. I'd prefer to see one done on bodybuilders instead. That would be a lot more applicable to this argument. But either way, I'm not sure what in that study was applicable to this debate anyway. There was nothing in there about effectiveness in the long term.
Biceps_Blitz
New member
Here's what BodyFx2 said:
Is it true that the body can only take in creatine for like 8 tot 12 weeks, and if you take it longer the body will no longer be able to produce it? Also, is the body able to shutdown on creatine?
FALSE. THE BODY WILL STOP PRODUCING IT AFTER A WHILE OF TAKING CREATINE, BUT WILL IMMEDIATELY START AGAIN ONCE YOU STOP TAKING IT.
Does creatine lose its effectiveness after being used for like 3 or 4 "cycles?
I HAVE EXPERIMENTED WITH ALL KIND OF CREATINE CYCLES, ON MYSELF AND CLIENTS, AND MY FEELING IS THAT AFTER ABOUT 16 WEEKS THE BOOST YOU GET FROM CREATINE STARTS TO FADE AND YOU STAGNATE. I DON'T LIKE TO LET IT GET TO THAT POINT SO I SUGGEST CYCLES OF 12 WEEKS ON, AND 4 WEEKS OFF.
Is it true that the body can only take in creatine for like 8 tot 12 weeks, and if you take it longer the body will no longer be able to produce it? Also, is the body able to shutdown on creatine?
FALSE. THE BODY WILL STOP PRODUCING IT AFTER A WHILE OF TAKING CREATINE, BUT WILL IMMEDIATELY START AGAIN ONCE YOU STOP TAKING IT.
Does creatine lose its effectiveness after being used for like 3 or 4 "cycles?
I HAVE EXPERIMENTED WITH ALL KIND OF CREATINE CYCLES, ON MYSELF AND CLIENTS, AND MY FEELING IS THAT AFTER ABOUT 16 WEEKS THE BOOST YOU GET FROM CREATINE STARTS TO FADE AND YOU STAGNATE. I DON'T LIKE TO LET IT GET TO THAT POINT SO I SUGGEST CYCLES OF 12 WEEKS ON, AND 4 WEEKS OFF.
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DirkMoneyshot
Well-known member
Ha Ha Ha - That was to funny!!!!
Biceps_Blitz
New member
ectomorph said:
What are you talking about...? That was copied from my mailbox...
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