First Cycle and PCT

[DADAWG]

I am confused that mostly people said that steroids is not good for health. But lot of companies and educated people use it. What is reason?

use vs abuse tends to determine if there are any health dangers from steroids and how severe those health problems would be.

99% of the people on these boards are just hobbyist and do not need grams of gear to grow. the other 1% are professional athletes or bodybuilders and use steroids to earn their living.

the problem is there are a lot of people who think they have a shot of being in that 1% and its just not realistic.

 

[heavyiron]

I am confused that mostly people said that steroids is not good for health. But lot of companies and educated people use it. What is reason?

I think it comes down to education. Most people are ignorant to the health risks associated with steroid use. Once you look at the hard data there's a pretty low risk with using Testosterone however there are increased risks with using some oral steroids. The bottom line is arming yourself with knowledge so you can make an informed decision.

 

[BigPal]

Hey heavyiron, got a question for ya. Im getting ready for my first cycle and wanted to play it as safe as possible. Ive been researching for months and Im getting closer to starting soon.

I know everyone is diffrent and gets diffrent results or responds diffrent to ancillaries.

Im planning on doing 500mg Test E for 12 weeks. I wanted to run 20mg on Nolva ED during my cycle to be safe, but after reading this thread I like your logic behind using an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) thru your cycle and into the post cycle therapy (pct) as well.

You said you like 10mg of Aromasin ED and then during post cycle therapy (pct) you do 20/20/20/10 on the Aromasin + Clomid+ HCG.

Can the same be done w Arimidex ? If Im doing .5mg-1mg ED during the cycle should I do 2mg/2mg/2mg/1mg during post cycle therapy (pct) along with Clomid+HCG ?

Should I only use Nolva if Im experiencing signs of Gyno ? Whats the dosage? 50mg ED until gone ?

Ive read so many things and this Clomid/Nolva/Adex/Aromasin battle is the only thing Im still confused on.

Then I just heard someone say to keep Letro on hand for a last resort, but your logic on using Aromatase inhibitor (AI) during the cycle should prevent all this correct?

Sorry so many questions but you seem to know your stuff, Thanks in advance !

 

[heavyiron]

Hey heavyiron, got a question for ya. Im getting ready for my first cycle and wanted to play it as safe as possible. Ive been researching for months and Im getting closer to starting soon.

I know everyone is diffrent and gets diffrent results or responds diffrent to ancillaries.

Im planning on doing 500mg Test E for 12 weeks. I wanted to run 20mg on Nolva ED during my cycle to be safe, but after reading this thread I like your logic behind using an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) thru your cycle and into the PCT as well.

You said you like 10mg of Aromasin ED and then during PCT you do 20/20/20/10 on the Aromasin + Clomid+ HCG.

Can the same be done w Arimidex ? If Im doing .5mg-1mg ED during the cycle should I do 2mg/2mg/2mg/1mg during PCT along with Clomid+HCG ?

You may use Arimidex but the half life is longer and there really isn't any need to go above 1mg Adex every day. In fact I would probably use 0.5-1mg Adex eod instead.

Should I only use Nolva if Im experiencing signs of Gyno ? Whats the dosage? 50mg ED until gone ?

Ive read so many things and this Clomid/Nolva/Adex/Aromasin battle is the only thing Im still confused on.

Then I just heard someone say to keep Letro on hand for a last resort, but your logic on using Aromatase inhibitor (AI) during the cycle should prevent all this correct?

Sorry so many questions but you seem to know your stuff, Thanks in advance !

Nolva is another option. Some guys prefer Nolva on cycle because it does not negatively effect lipids.

For emergency gyno treatment Nolva may be run at 20-40mg daily but usually the lower dose is just fine.

If your Aromatase inhibitor (AI) dose is dialed in you will not have excessive Estradiol and therefore you should not get high Estradiol side effects.

 

[BigPal]

Which is cheaper Adex or Aromasin ?

Isnt Aromasin more effective than Adex ?

And whats your thoughts on Proviron ?

Do you run the same Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and PCT for every cycle you do ?

 

[heavyiron]

Which is cheaper Adex or Aromasin ?

Isnt Aromasin more effective than Adex ?

And whats your thoughts on Proviron ?

Do you run the same Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and PCT for every cycle you do ?

I have a slight preference for Aromasin but either will work. No idea how they compare cost wise as prices vary widely. I'm on doc prescribed Adex and my insurance pays for it.

Proviron is a mild steroid that is inferior for E2 control in my opinion.

I never go off steroids brother. I have used various SERM's and AI's over the years.

 

[catazura66]

Hello heavyiron, Hope you don't mind but I'm about to commence my first cycle in 15yrs. I have my blood work done and all is fine. My question is - I'm about to commence Sustanon 250 (1ml) (Organon) at 1ml twice per week. I know you will know this already However it contains:
Test Propionate
Test Phenylpropionate
Test Isocaproate
Test Decanoate

Where do I stand when it comes to the esters re commencing my PCT?

When would be the best time to introduce HCG? And, at what dose?

I have Clomid and Nolvadex on hand.

I do not have any AI's. As this is a new world to me. I live in the U.K so have no idea of the availability.

I'm old school and used to do cycles the old school way. I have never stopped bodybuilding. But, I have lost a lot of knowledge when it comes to AAS etcs...

I'm 45 and weigh 210lbs. I have no idea what my BF is? But, I feel confident standing alongside any young gun..lol

I will also mention I have Deca, but not sure when to introduce this in future cycles?

Many thanks for your time and patience and your article/thread and not forgetting your knowledge is very impressive. I really enjoyed your reading this...Thank you!

 

[heavyiron]

Hello heavyiron, Hope you don't mind but I'm about to commence my first cycle in 15yrs. I have my blood work done and all is fine. My question is - I'm about to commence Sustanon 250 (1ml) (Organon) at 1ml twice per week. I know you will know this already However it contains:
Test Propionate
Test Phenylpropionate
Test Isocaproate
Test Decanoate

Where do I stand when it comes to the esters re commencing my PCT?

I would start the SERM about 21 days after your last Sustanon (sust) inject.

When would be the best time to introduce HCG? And, at what dose?

The beginning of the cycle all the way until the AAS ester clears at 500iu Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) twice weekly.

I have Clomid and Nolvadex on hand.

I do not have any AI's. As this is a new world to me. I live in the U.K so have no idea of the availability.

I'm old school and used to do cycles the old school way. I have never stopped bodybuilding. But, I have lost a lot of knowledge when it comes to AAS etcs...

I'm 45 and weigh 210lbs. I have no idea what my BF is? But, I feel confident standing alongside any young gun..lol

I will also mention I have Deca, but not sure when to introduce this in future cycles?

Next cycle at 400mg Deca weekly stacked with Testosterone would be my suggestion.

Many thanks for your time and patience and your article/thread and not forgetting your knowledge is very impressive. I really enjoyed your reading this...Thank you!

You are very welcome.

 

[catazura66]

Thanks for this Heavyiron,

Just (and probably not my last question) What Deca/Sust ratio would be correct?

400mg Deca twice per week - ?mg Sustanon (sust) twice per week? And, I understand due to reading your advice - I would take the Sustanon (sust) after taking the Deca and the latter end of the cycle? If How long after?

I hope that makes sense?

Thanks again.

 

[heavyiron]

Thanks for this Heavyiron,

Just (and probably not my last question) What Deca/Sust ratio would be correct?

400mg Deca twice per week - ?mg Sustanon (sust) twice per week? And, I understand due to reading your advice - I would take the Sustanon (sust) after taking the Deca and the latter end of the cycle? If How long after?

I hope that makes sense?

Thanks again.

It really depends on the individual. Some guys report sexual dysfunction on Nandrolones (Deca) and others not so much so it is almost universally advised that testosterone be used along side Nandrolone to keep libido.

I advise about 2mg Deca per lb of body weight for newer users so in your case about 400mg Deca WEEKLY. I would use around the same amount of test or maybe a bit more. Maybe 500-750mg Sustanon (sust) stacked with the 400mg Deca WEEKLY. You may discontinue the Sustanon (sust) and Deca at the same time since Sustanon (sust) has a decanoate ester or if you want to you could use the Sustanon (sust) an extra week after stopping the Deca.

 

[catazura66]

It really depends on the individual. Some guys report sexual dysfunction on Nandrolones (Deca) and others not so much so it is almost universally advised that testosterone be used along side Nandrolone to keep libido.

I advise about 2mg Deca per lb of body weight for newer users so in your case about 400mg Deca WEEKLY. I would use around the same amount of test or maybe a bit more. Maybe 500-750mg Sustanon (sust) stacked with the 400mg Deca WEEKLY. You may discontinue the Sustanon (sust) and Deca at the same time since Sustanon (sust) has a decanoate ester or if you want to you could use the Sustanon (sust) an extra week after stopping the Deca.

Thanks,

Sorry about this, but would I inject the Deca at 400mg and Sus 500mg (or 750mg) on the same day or separate days?

Or did you mean mix them both in the same syringe? I doubt you meant the latter? I just want to make sure re sound advice.

Cheers.

 

[heavyiron]

Thanks,

Sorry about this, but would I inject the Deca at 400mg and Sus 500mg (or 750mg) on the same day or separate days?

Or did you mean mix them both in the same syringe? I doubt you meant the latter? I just want to make sure re sound advice.

Cheers.

I would inject an equal amount of Nandrolone and Sustanon (sust) in the same pin twice weekly.

Ie;

Tuesday 200mg Deca/250mg Sust
Saturday 200mg Deca/250mg Sust

 

[catazura66]

I would inject an equal amount of Nandrolone and Sustanon (sust) in the same pin twice weekly.

Ie;

Tuesday 200mg Deca/250mg Sust
Saturday 200mg Deca/250mg Sust

Great! That makes sense, just didn't see the answer staring right at me..Thanks Heavyiron and keep your educational threads coming.

Thank you!

 

[Shuff]

This greatly helped me. Thanks

 

[careyjesus]

Thats right question and i think u got so much answers for that,Nice post

 

[brice]

hi,
my name is brice,
my first cycle was Danabol-ds( 20 mg per day , only the days i workout) for 6-7 weeks and i gained 7 kgs . Along with danabol-ds i used Liv 52 (2 caps 3 times a day) whitin my danabol-ds cycle. My cycle ended in the month of August 2011 . Now i want to start another cycle of danabol-ds since it's been 4 month my first cycle ended.

while taking danabol-ds i didn't observe any side effect at all , only sometime i heart used to beat fast and my hair was falling a bit .

now i want to start my 2nd danabol-ds for 4 weeks and i also thought of taking deca-durabolin along with that , can you please advise me how to use both or wether i have to take danabol then after ending with deca. I also need to know if i what to take apart from Liv 52 , shall i follow that following cycle with deca-durabolin instead of enanthate :

Sunday 10mg Aromasin
Monday 10mg Aromasin/500iu HCG
Tuesday 10mg Aromasin/300mg enanthate
Wednesday 10mg Aromasin
Thursday 10mg Aromasin
Friday 10mg Aromasin/500iu HCG
Saturday 10mg Aromasin/300mg enanthate

i also need a post cycle therapy (pct) as i didn't do any post cycle therapy (pct) after my first cycle .
please give me complete and safe cycle and post cycle sample about danabol-ds and deca-durabolin which i can follow to get a pretty good result.

i'am 23 and my weight is now 74 kg , i want to reach 90 to 100kg

thanks for your help

 

[brice]

hi,
my name is brice,
my first cycle was Danabol-ds( 20 mg per day , only the days i workout) for 6-7 weeks and i gained 7 kgs . Along with danabol-ds i used Liv 52 (2 caps 3 times a day) whitin my danabol-ds cycle. My cycle ended in the month of August 2011 . Now i want to start another cycle of danabol-ds since it's been 4 month my first cycle ended.

while taking danabol-ds i didn't observe any side effect at all , only sometime i heart used to beat fast and my hair was falling a bit .

now i want to start my 2nd danabol-ds for 4 weeks and i also thought of taking deca-durabolin along with that , can you please advise me how to use both or wether i have to take danabol then after ending with deca. I also need to know if i what to take apart from Liv 52 , shall i follow that following cycle with deca-durabolin instead of enanthate :

Sunday 10mg Aromasin
Monday 10mg Aromasin/500iu HCG
Tuesday 10mg Aromasin/300mg enanthate
Wednesday 10mg Aromasin
Thursday 10mg Aromasin
Friday 10mg Aromasin/500iu HCG
Saturday 10mg Aromasin/300mg enanthate

i also need a post cycle therapy (pct) as i didn't do any post cycle therapy (pct) after my first cycle .
please give me complete and safe cycle and post cycle sample about danabol-ds and deca-durabolin which i can follow to get a pretty good result.

i'am 23 and my weight is now 74 kg , i want to reach 90 to 100kg

thanks for your help

 

[BigPal]

Hi brice, Ive never cycled but I think you might want to do a bit more research before starting this cycle.

First I think with DBol most guys will say dont do more than 4 weeks, although at the low dose of 20 mg 6-7 weeks might be okay.

Second, you should have done a post cycle therapy (pct) the first cycle.

Third, Im pretty sure if you run Deca, these guys will tell you to run Test with it because Deca turns your natural Test off.

If you search through the threads youll find suggestions for post cycle therapy (pct).
Most will say Clomid 50/50/50/50 and Nolva 40/40/20/20 along with your HCG.
But you need to research the half lifes of what you are using so you know when to start post cycle therapy (pct).

 

[heavyiron]

hi,
my name is brice,
my first cycle was Danabol-ds( 20 mg per day , only the days i workout) for 6-7 weeks and i gained 7 kgs . Along with danabol-ds i used Liv 52 (2 caps 3 times a day) whitin my danabol-ds cycle. My cycle ended in the month of August 2011 . Now i want to start another cycle of danabol-ds since it's been 4 month my first cycle ended.

while taking danabol-ds i didn't observe any side effect at all , only sometime i heart used to beat fast and my hair was falling a bit .

now i want to start my 2nd danabol-ds for 4 weeks and i also thought of taking deca-durabolin along with that , can you please advise me how to use both or wether i have to take danabol then after ending with deca. I also need to know if i what to take apart from Liv 52 , shall i follow that following cycle with deca-durabolin instead of enanthate :

Sunday 10mg Aromasin
Monday 10mg Aromasin/500iu HCG
Tuesday 10mg Aromasin/300mg enanthate
Wednesday 10mg Aromasin
Thursday 10mg Aromasin
Friday 10mg Aromasin/500iu HCG
Saturday 10mg Aromasin/300mg enanthate

i also need a PCT as i didn't do any PCT after my first cycle .
please give me complete and safe cycle and post cycle sample about danabol-ds and deca-durabolin which i can follow to get a pretty good result.

i'am 23 and my weight is now 74 kg , i want to reach 90 to 100kg

thanks for your help

I would not use Deca with Dianabol. I think you will have a much more enjoyable cycle with Testosterone and Dianabol. Deca will reduce your sex drive where Testosterone will maintain and even increase sex drive. A Deca cycle means you will likely have no sex or poor quality sex during the whole cycle brother.

600mg Testosterone Enanthate weekly for 8-10 weeks.

20mg Dianabol for the first 6 weeks.

PCT is in the first post.

 

[brice]

thanks heavyiron but i steel have some questions

I would not use Deca with Dianabol. I think you will have a much more enjoyable cycle with Testosterone and Dianabol. Deca will reduce your sex drive where Testosterone will maintain and even increase sex drive. A Deca cycle means you will likely have no sex or poor quality sex during the whole cycle brother.

600mg Testosterone Enanthate weekly for 8-10 weeks.

20mg Dianabol for the first 6 weeks.

post cycle therapy (pct) is in the first post.

thanks heavyiron,
so you mean :
A total of 8-10 weeks i should use dianabol for the first 6 weeks then continue with ananthate till the 8th or 10th week.
So the first 6 weeks should be as follow:

Sunday 10mg Aromasin /dianabol
Monday 10mg Aromasin/500iu HCG/dianabol
Tuesday 10mg Aromasin/300mg enanthate/dianabol
Wednesday 10mg Aromasin/dianabol
Thursday 10mg Aromasin/dianabol
Friday 10mg Aromasin/500iu HCG/dianabol
Saturday 10mg Aromasin/300mg enanthate/dianabol

and from week 6 to week 8 it should be as follow:
Sunday 10mg Aromasin
Monday 10mg Aromasin/500iu HCG
Tuesday 10mg Aromasin/300mg enanthate
Wednesday 10mg Aromasin
Thursday 10mg Aromasin
Friday 10mg Aromasin/500iu HCG
Saturday 10mg Aromasin/300mg enanthate

then the post cycle therapy (pct) specified in the first post

my questions are:

1) shall i start the post cycle therapy (pct) on week 9 ? because i never tried a post cycle therapy (pct) before.
2) shall i take the LIV 52 as i did for my first dianabol cycle?
3) shall i use Nolvadex if i start observing gyno symptoms like hair falling and all?? if yes shall i take it during cycle or during post cycle therapy (pct)?
4) i have some doubt in the post cycle therapy (pct) you specified in first post , which is the follow:
my question about the post are:

a) what shoul be the correct dosage of HCG during post cycle therapy (pct)?

b) what do you mean by " 100/100/100/50 clomid (50mg taken twice per day weeks 1-3 after aas ester clears) " ??
does it mean i have to take clomid only for 3 weeks during post cycle therapy (pct) like 100 mg per day week 1-3 then 5 mg on week 4 ???

that's all for my questions. thanks for your reply

follow is the post cycle therapy (pct) you gave on first post


Day 1-16 : 2500iu HCG every other day. (You may use less HCG if your testes are normal in size AND you have been using HCG on cycle, i.e. 1,000iu HCG etd.)

100/100/100/50 clomid (50mg taken twice per day weeks 1-3 after aas ester clears)

20mg/20mg/20mg/10mg Aromasin (20mg daily for 3 weeks, 10mg daily in week 4)

3g Vit C every day split in 3 doses

10g creatine daily