History is shorter than we believe vid,. WTF!!

[CHIP WADOWSKI]

i think Bill Maher is a prick, but he did a great job with Religilous. The talk about The Book Of Osiris and how closely related the story of Horus and Jesus are is a trip.

I don't tout myself as an atheist. Because they believe there is no God. Honestly, i have no idea what there is. The fact is, i don't care enough to find out. I like to learn about history, but again, to worry about why I am here as a point of validation is ridiculous.

I'm glad we can all speak about this with civility. I have had discussions about this where i speak my views and the zealots go crazy cause they can't speak a rational thought when faced with a question that might prove their theories wrong.

And again, I don't think I'm right. I have no idea. I just have more important things to worry about.

One of my biggest issues with people of the church are the ones who are so stupid in thinking its ok for men like Creflo Dollar, Eddie Long, Bennie Hin and other 'businessmen' to take every last dollar they have by giving them false hope to thinking that is their way to the promise land. Like how can you not think a "man of God" driving a 450K Rolls Royce is a bad thing?

(Haven't figured out how to copy sentence fragments in here yet...)

"..... to realize why I am here as a point of validation is ridiculous." .....

I need to call you out on that one bro...

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/t...therapy/593711-make-difference-thats-why.html

.... YOU ARE HERE TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE... AS YOU DO EVERY DAY THAT YOU LOG ONTO THIS SITE.

(SORRY TO GO ALL "DAHLI LAMA" AND "GHANDI" AND SHIT, ON YOUR ASS)

 

[BimmerDude]

One of my biggest issues with people of the church are the ones who are so stupid in thinking its ok for men like Creflo Dollar, Eddie Long, Bennie Hin and other 'businessmen' to take every last dollar they have by giving them false hope to thinking that is their way to the promise land. Like how can you not think a "man of God" driving a 450K Rolls Royce is a bad thing?

This is one of the most fascinating (and most dangerous) things about organized religion--- the way it is used to exploit and manipulate people. If you can scare people into believing stuff made up about gods and goddesses then you can get their obedience and their money. Its the most successful racket ever!

 

[RJ]

This is one of the most fascinating (and most dangerous) things about organized religion--- the way it is used to exploit and manipulate people. If you can scare people into believing stuff made up about gods and goddesses then you can get their obedience and their money. Its the most successful racket ever!

no shit. I'm really just jealous that i didn't think of it.

 

[3J]

The Lord saved me. Flat out. I was dying twice and HE alone rescued me from circumstances I could never alter.

I fully believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and have seen His glory. I have held people dying in my arms feeling their body getting colder and colder only to watch HIM bring them back. I have been directly beside 4 shootouts and never been hit.
I own the war lords buildings in the slum not because I am anything special but because the real Lord assigned me to help His precious people by using these resourses to His glory.
Every building around us has been hit by bullets except ours. Even the gangs give us distance and respect because they watched with their own eyes their leader be removed and the Lord's desire take away all that they had. It is not us it is HIM who made these things happen. The Glory alone belongs to the Lord.
Man I tell you this with all certinty....
There is never a day I don't believe in the Lord or thank Him for His blessings.


Faith is all about building a relationship with your creator. Its not about big churches or fine cars or pulpit draaaayma. Listen there will always be counterfiets and imposters.
But there will always be people who are the real deal when it comes to faith and
leading people to a better relationship with their Lord.

I have seen the Lord's hand and it is unspeakbly kind. I have watched His forgiveness and restoration in my life and hundreds of others and it is the sweetest of all gifts.

this is the role of religion in our society...

giving people peace and hope...

unfortunately.. most people dont even know the history of their own faith... shit pisses me off...

i call them armchair christians... what a joke


regardless of alll that... well said...

 

[Mr P]

Picklebunny,
You're story is very moving.
I don't disagree that the Lord exists, you're a good human being, and I don't deny the Lord was with you in all those moments in your life, and that he was prtecting you and still does.

I do wonder why the Lord doesn't stop so many disaster & horrible things that are happening around the world... and why do inocent kids die from cancer everyday, While allowing good things to happen to bad people.

I've known some exceptional human beings, That were not necessarily religious, and some that were & were inspired by God.

What I mean is, whatever inspires you to be a better person and a better humanitarian you should stick with it.
You don't necessarily have to be a church goer, or belong to any organized religion to be a good person.

 

[Mr P]

I see you're point of view.

p.s (Remember it doesn't matter how bad you were or how many mistakes you made in the past, yesterday is gone, tomorrow hasn't happened & today you have the opportunity start being a better person, so that you can change your destinity for a brighter future)

 

[RJ]

The Lord saved me. Flat out. I was dying twice and HE alone rescued me from circumstances I could never alter.

I fully believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and have seen His glory. I have held people dying in my arms feeling their body getting colder and colder only to watch HIM bring them back. I have been directly beside 4 shootouts and never been hit.
I own the war lords buildings in the slum not because I am anything special but because the real Lord assigned us to help His precious people by using these resourses to His glory.
Every building around us has been hit by bullets except ours. The Lord covers us with his blanket of security. Even the gangs give distance and respect because they watched with their own eyes their leader be removed and the Lord's desire take away everything that they had. It is not us it is HIM who made these things happen. The Glory alone belongs to the Lord.
Man I tell you this with all certinty....
There is never a day I don't believe in the Lord or thank Him for His blessings.


Faith is all about building a relationship with your creator. Its not about big churches or fine cars or pulpit draaaayma. Listen there will always be counterfiets and imposters.
But there will always be people who are the real deal when it comes to faith and
leading people to a better relationship with their Lord.

I have seen the Lord's hand and it is unspeakbly kind. I have watched His forgiveness and restoration in my life and hundreds of others and it is the sweetest of all gifts.

again, this is all about having faith in something.

Me personally, i believe all those things would have happened to you whether there was a god or not. You believe it was because of god.

Unfortunately there is no way to prove it except through faith. Either way, its all about what you believe in.

Just like was said, its when those beliefs are pushed upon others that it becomes a problem for me.

 

[3J]

Just like was said, its when those beliefs are pushed upon others that it becomes a problem for me.

yea its not like its my dick being pushed on u.. u'd be very accepting of that now wouldn't u?



religion is the opiate of society

-karl marx

 

[RJ]

If the Lord wants your attention what better way to get it than take your child away. Keep in mind that the child is bathed in endless love upon leaving this earth. With our limited thought we miss the capacity of the Lord's ability to restore. Where would the child be better cared for...here or in Heaven?

sorry, but this is one of those bullshit parts of religion that people use to explain the unexplainable.

You take away my child... you can go fuck yourself. The idea that sorrow and sadness and loss of love should be used to feed a Gods ego is ridiculous and i wouldn't waste one minute on a God that took something i loved just for his own self-righteousness.

 

[3J]

sorry, but this is one of those bullshit parts of religion that people use to explain the unexplainable.

You take away my child... you can go fuck yourself. The idea that sorrow and sadness and loss of love should be used to feed a Gods ego is ridiculous and i wouldn't waste one minute on a God that took something i loved just for his own self-righteousness.

lol the benevolence of god is something that has been put to questions time and time agian... christian apologists cant seem to put something concrete in works for us to understand past "your to ignorant to understand yourself the works of god"..

its kinda sad actually...

i have no prob with someone believing in what they want.. let it be.. but things like this that are said about god taking way ur child is fairly retarded... actually the god that jesus spoke of was good, did not kill his enemies, much less the children of his faithful...

unless ur jewish maybe??

then god was violent and radically exclusive...


either way there's no empirical evidence of a god... the day there is ill be a believer...

ill leave the blind faith to the blind

 

[RJ]

lol the benevolence of god is something that has been put to questions time and time agian... christian apologists cant seem to put something concrete in works for us to understand past "your to ignorant to understand yourself the works of god"..

its kinda sad actually...

i have no prob with someone believing in what they want.. let it be.. but things like this that are said about god taking way ur child is fairly retarded... actually the god that jesus spoke of was good, did not kill his enemies, much less the children of his faithful...

unless ur jewish maybe??

then god was violent and radically exclusive...


either way there's no empirical evidence of a god... the day there is ill be a believer...

ill leave the blind faith to the blind

amen.

wait. thats not what I meant.

 

[JohnnyVegas]

Its like the "god has a plan for everyone" argument. what about the guy who sodomizes infants for fun.... what's god's big plan for him?

Lake of fire?

 

[Zero V]

lol the benevolence of god is something that has been put to questions time and time agian... christian apologists cant seem to put something concrete in works for us to understand past "your to ignorant to understand yourself the works of god"..

its kinda sad actually...

i have no prob with someone believing in what they want.. let it be.. but things like this that are said about god taking way ur child is fairly retarded... actually the god that jesus spoke of was good, did not kill his enemies, much less the children of his faithful...

unless ur jewish maybe??

then god was violent and radically exclusive...


either way there's no empirical evidence of a god... the day there is ill be a believer...

ill leave the blind faith to the blind

I will interject an explanation and opinion here.

The God Jesus spoke of is the Jewish God. He came to fulfill the Old Testament, not undo it. Its the same God that had the tribes wiped out, woman and child, flock and land. Same God that wiped out 99.9% of the human population to "start over" with the flood. Same God Jesus represents.

People seem to forget Jesus throwing tables, and chasing everyone out of the building at one point.

God is forgiving, when you ask for it. If you do not ask for it, he is not so forgiving. Quite a simple rule I thought. I do believe Christians are taught some things that are not 100% intended, such as to be complete panzies. Turning the other cheek serves a purpose, but so does busting someone in their jaw if needed.

I read a guys story about when he was a kid he got into a fight in the church parking lot. The other kid had picked on him for years, and finally that day in the parking lot he stood up to him and beat the hell out of him. The mother was embarrassed and went to stop him but was stopped by the preacher. He said "You only have so many cheeks to turn".

Thats how I see it anyways. Being a Christian is not about being dogmatic, or perfectly "kind and nice", etc,etc. Its about trying your hardest to make a difference for good in the world. Sometimes that path requires violence, such as with Hitler. There was only one way to deal with him.

Now you ask, why do such horrible things happen to people? Such as the sodomy of a child.

This place is a warzone. Thats why. Things are allowed because we have to choose our own fate, we have to choose who we will serve. God does not send anyone to hell, its a personal choice. Just like when you break a law your sending yourself to jail. Its not the judges fault you broke the law.

You speak of child molestation? Well think about one thing...Under old school Christian laws that man would be beheaded, burned, hung, or some other form of death for his actions. Thus discouraging others from letting their minds wander into the dark perverse nature of the flesh.

In a "religion free" society, he gets a slap on the wrist, a few years in prison maybe, but then his life back...even though a child will never have a real life after that kind of trauma....This is America today...

What you have is God allowing people to have free will. Americas free will has been to push out Christianity, to reject God, and to label the faith all kinds of names and alter all the ways of life that once was.

Well part of free will is that you have to deal with the consequences of your choice. Voila, you have America as it is today. The consequence of generations past. A place where being a criminal pays.

The reason people protect criminals like that, such as child molesters....the reason people are strong supporters for anything anti-Christian(such as homosexuality, liberalism,etc) is because in doing so they make themselves feel that their own acts are not as bad, or more acceptable because someone else's is far worse or more extreme. Where as if people actually had to pay for such horrendous crimes as murder and rape the old fashioned way, it would become much less common and with that the focus would return to the smaller things.

This would point to the fact that child rapists are the direct result of the choices made to push God out. Not saying it never happened even with Christianity being the main controlling factor...but back then if a man raped a kid...he turned up dead, and cops didnt ask questions...Justice is Justice.

A rapist has no rights once proven guilty IMO a last meal of his choice, then he should accept the fate he earned....Humans have too many damn rights today.... and that is partially a problem.

Again this is just an opinion and example.

I agree each person has faith in something. Be it faith in God, or a faith that there is no God,etc. But most important is what kind of role that person plays to society. Do they improve the lives of others they are around ,or do they ruin the lives of others they are around? That is the question.

Also it is not judging. I do not judge a man, but I do carry out the judgement he places upon himself by his actions.

 

[RJ]

In my life I have seen the Lord step up many times and do wonderous things that have no explanation or obligation.

and that is my point... no explanation. That is the difference. You say its God, i say its just your Mom beat the cancer (congrats to her btw). But I can't prove that its not God just like you can't prove it is.

And yes, this is still a discussion. I won't get twisted as I would never try and get anyone to believe in what i believe in... just why i believe the way I do.

Good job to everyone for not getting all radical about a simple discussion about religion.

Wait... is there such a thing? lol

 

[Zero V]

and that is my point... no explanation. That is the difference. You say its God, i say its just your Mom beat the cancer (congrats to her btw). But I can't prove that its not God just like you can't prove it is.

And yes, this is still a discussion. I won't get twisted as I would never try and get anyone to believe in what i believe in... just why i believe the way I do.

Good job to everyone for not getting all radical about a simple discussion about religion.

Wait... is there such a thing? lol

I hope my post above yours is not considered radical then

As it should not be. Its not a condescending thing, I am trying to present it the same way a teachers presents the ideals of a field. Such as different psychology professors will be of different ideologies, they are simply representing and explaining theirs.

We are all teachers/students at life, I am just trying to explain a little of my ideology/field

On that not, in relation to the quote...

We had a gentleman at my old church. Had X-rays of his knee, he had destroyed his ACL and every other tendon around the knee, kaput, done. The X-ray showed it, and the doctors were planning surgery the next week. That Sunday night he came to prayer even though he wasnt supposed to. Well after some intense, and I mean intense prayer the man jumped up and was running around the church. Took fresh X-rays the next day before the surgery...they cancelled the surgery, his leg was healed. The doctors of course were confused as hell.

That is one of the many experiences that to me say what I do, what we do, works. And i like not being restricted to the natural limitations we are told we have.

 

[3J]

I will interject an explanation and opinion here.

The God Jesus spoke of is the Jewish God. He came to fulfill the Old Testament, not undo it. Its the same God that had the tribes wiped out, woman and child, flock and land. Same God that wiped out 99.9% of the human population to "start over" with the flood. Same God Jesus represents.

your absolutely wrong...

we have to remember two things when it comes down to early christianity and judaim... what the human condition was, and what ultimate reality was

the traditional "jewish" god did wipe out tribes women and children, flock land, and whiped out 99.9 percent of the world...

the jewish god was violent, radically exclusive (u had to be a jew, be circumcised and follow strict purity laws (especially with the pharisees and the essenes) in order to be a part of the community.... the god of the jews was only for the people of israel


the god jesus spoke of was radically inclusive, radically loving, and charged the individual with an acceptance of a general community, instead of an exclusive... e.g. love thy neighbor.. or "call no man father".. the patriarchal motif of the jewish people was disbaned.. leaving everyone to be brother and sister to each other.. and giving women more equality...

women in the jewish faith had their connection with god only through their husbands.. the culture was based upon an honor/shame system.. males were to be the ones to bring and upkeep honor in the family, while women were the ones to make sure they didn't bring shame...


purity laws.. like who you ate with could easily shame u if you broke them... jesus did all these things...

he had a new concept of god...

so if u wanna say its the same god u have to say

the violent radically exclusive god of the jews = the peacful racially inclusive god of the christians..

sorry.. does not compute..

People seem to forget Jesus throwing tables, and chasing everyone out of the building at one point.

but he used no physical violence on the people in the temple.. just the tables... which is why the Sadducee plotted against them, he threatened their livelyhood

God is forgiving, when you ask for it. If you do not ask for it, he is not so forgiving. Quite a simple rule I thought. I do believe Christians are taught some things that are not 100% intended, such as to be complete panzies. Turning the other cheek serves a purpose, but so does busting someone in their jaw if needed.

turning the other cheek is what jesus taught as a main point in his teachings... so ur armcharing it if u wanna mend that to fit your needs... and god is forgiving to all he "loves his enemies" remember?

I read a guys story about when he was a kid he got into a fight in the church parking lot. The other kid had picked on him for years, and finally that day in the parking lot he stood up to him and beat the hell out of him. The mother was embarrassed and went to stop him but was stopped by the preacher. He said "You only have so many cheeks to turn".

good for the preacher.. he has still gone against christian principles... the principles of jesus

Thats how I see it anyways. Being a Christian is not about being dogmatic, or perfectly "kind and nice", etc,etc. Its about trying your hardest to make a difference for good in the world. Sometimes that path requires violence, such as with Hitler. There was only one way to deal with him.

agreed... yet u go against the "interpersonality" of god when stating such a thing
Now you ask, why do such horrible things happen to people? Such as the sodomy of a child.

This place is a warzone. Thats why. Things are allowed because we have to choose our own fate, we have to choose who we will serve. God does not send anyone to hell, its a personal choice. Just like when you break a law your sending yourself to jail. Its not the judges fault you broke the law.


You speak of child molestation? Well think about one thing...Under old school Christian laws that man would be beheaded, burned, hung, or some other form of death for his actions. Thus discouraging others from letting their minds wander into the dark perverse nature of the flesh.

In a "religion free" society, he gets a slap on the wrist, a few years in prison maybe, but then his life back...even though a child will never have a real life after that kind of trauma....This is America today...

What you have is God allowing people to have free will. Americas free will has been to push out Christianity, to reject God, and to label the faith all kinds of names and alter all the ways of life that once was.

Well part of free will is that you have to deal with the consequences of your choice. Voila, you have America as it is today. The consequence of generations past. A place where being a criminal pays.

The reason people protect criminals like that, such as child molesters....the reason people are strong supporters for anything anti-Christian(such as homosexuality, liberalism,etc) is because in doing so they make themselves feel that their own acts are not as bad, or more acceptable because someone else's is far worse or more extreme. Where as if people actually had to pay for such horrendous crimes as murder and rape the old fashioned way, it would become much less common and with that the focus would return to the smaller things.

This would point to the fact that child rapists are the direct result of the choices made to push God out. Not saying it never happened even with Christianity being the main controlling factor...but back then if a man raped a kid...he turned up dead, and cops didnt ask questions...Justice is Justice.

A rapist has no rights once proven guilty IMO a last meal of his choice, then he should accept the fate he earned....Humans have too many damn rights today.... and that is partially a problem.

Again this is just an opinion and example.

I agree each person has faith in something. Be it faith in God, or a faith that there is no God,etc. But most important is what kind of role that person plays to society. Do they improve the lives of others they are around ,or do they ruin the lives of others they are around? That is the question.

Also it is not judging. I do not judge a man, but I do carry out the judgement he places upon himself by his actions.

ok.. as for your reasoning about why we have bad in the world.. i need u to answer me a question...

is god all good?? do you believe god to be benevolent?

 

[Zero V]

ok.. as for your reasoning about why we have bad in the world.. i need u to answer me a question...

is god all good?? do you believe god to be benevolent?

He is God, his ideas of what may be benevolent may not quite be the same as a what the human mind reaches at its limits. Spiritual welfare for eternal souls far outweigh physical welfare, no? Jesus said we war against principalities of darkness and the flesh. You seem to be forgetting Revelations...Brutal slaying of large portions of the worlds populations, plague, destruction and death even for those who are believers.

Jesus is the ultimate sacrificial lamb, he removed the need to prevent Gods wrath by sacrificing animals. Instead he was the perfect sacrifice, thus giving us grace. It is the same God it is just now we are under the grace period of the sacrifice he planned since the days of Judaism. Next will be the false prophets(I could tell you who I believe they are, but this shall remain civil ) And we, the gentiles are sewn onto the tree which was Judaism.

As for your Bold fill in points I have explanations to support my side and make it easier to understand...

But I know, as well as you do all this will turn into is 3 or 4 of us giving 2,000 word essays back and forth. Eventually escalating into likely offending one another.(such as telling one another their belief is wrong, which I have not stated to anyone but has already been stated to me).

If you want to discuss it, I love discussions/debates. But over the last two years I have learned it is better done through PM's where two individuals can agree to debate and both walk away, only having effected themselves, aka the willing participants.

With that I take leave of further discussion unless new points come up that I see have a mutual explanation point, but am open to private discussions. It helps keep boards clean, it helps keep people building good relationships, and it also helps keep threads on topic

 

[RJ]

here it is in a nutshell.

No one, and I mean no one, can prove there is a god. They may say they can, but they can't. I'm not talking about what they "believe" or "feel" or "have faith in". I'm talking about actual proof. And no the bible is not actual proof.

Just like no one can prove that he does not exist. These points are great for discussion but that is it. And that is where the line in the sand gets crossed. When people start trying to prove their point. There is no point to prove. Because it can't be proven.

You either believe or you don't. No one can prove otherwise.

 

[Die$eL~Man]

I lead a pretty happy life knowing I'm saved by faith through grace.

Plus, if I die and I'm wrong, what have I lost?

But if a non-believer dies and they're wrong... game over, man.

cosigns

 

[Zero V]

here it is in a nutshell.

No one, and I mean no one, can prove there is a god. They may say they can, but they can't. I'm not talking about what they "believe" or "feel" or "have faith in". I'm talking about actual proof. And no the bible is not actual proof.

Just like no one can prove that he does not exist. These points are great for discussion but that is it. And that is where the line in the sand gets crossed. Whn people start proving their point. There is no point to prove.

You either believe or you don't. No one can prove otherwise.

Truth. But proof, is individual perception of what we define as evidence in a world that is literally a raging torrent of events, information, and mystery.

Faith has been, is, and will be the greatest diversifying agent amongst mankind.