HPTA Resart/12 days into it. Side effect question..

Slhardee

Slhardee

New member
Ok, I'm 12 days into a HPTA restart (Clomiphene and Tamoxifen). Let me preface this by saying I am definitely one of those guys that should be on TRT for life. I felt like I needed to do this HPTA, so I'm sticking to it.

Overall, my workouts remain constant. I have energy and feel great during my workouts, even though I know my T levels are a lot lower than they normally are. (Lower than when I'm on my TRT)

The only side effect I can say that I am truly noticing, is my mood. I have no patience for anything. I have a very short fuse right now and the littlest things set me off. Is this normal? I feel like I should be feeling better in general. I'm assuming part of it is because I know my T level is decreasing and has been over the last few weeks by going to this restart. Is it the SERMS making me edgy? Or do you guys think it's the lowering of my T level. Please tell me it will get better after this month! Thank You in advance.. ***128077;***128170;***128074;
 
Hello my friend, i would like for you to know that i am at the same boat with you. I have some questions.
1. how old are you?
2. have you take steroids?
3. did you go in an endo or you are selftreated
 
George1989, I am 46 and I am on Dr. prescribed TRT. He also prescribes PCT meds as needed. I get regular blood work done to make sure everything is in order. Megatron, I just had labs done three weeks ago. Estradiol is normal/good. LH and FSH are in the crapper...
 
Slhardee said:
George1989, I am 46 and I am on Dr. prescribed TRT. He also prescribes PCT meds as needed. I get regular blood work done to make sure everything is in order. Megatron, I just had labs done three weeks ago. Estradiol is normal/good. LH and FSH are in the crapper...
Click to expand...

Those labs were while on TRT. You need to see what is going on now that you are trying a restart.

And what do you mean by "PCT meds as needed?". One doesn't do PCT while on TRT. Are you hypogonadal?

Of course LH and FSH were low. You were taking exogenous testosterone.
 
Like a lot of guys in the past i made some mistakes with the steroids (not a proper pct). For over a year i have low testosterone. i have a bad mood, no libido, redused strength. My last blood results were these almost one month before
testosterone 196ng/dl limits 262-1593, fsh 1,14 limits 1.00-12.00, lh 0,97 limits 2.00-12.00, PRL 10,20 limits 3,28-19,68 , testosterone 3,37 limits 2,60 - 12.0. i have secondary hypogonadism. i am 25 years old. I went to an endo for athletes and he gave me a restart protocol 1 month with pregnyl 1500x3 per week and nolvadex 20mg per day. then i stop pregnyl and take 20mg nolva for 3 weeks more. i am now on the second week of nolva. when i was on pregnyl i had mood swings, water rentation (of course) and increase libido. Now i feel very strange sometimes in the day. The only thing that i doing right is my workout. Last and most important libido is reduced.
 
Megatron, Yes I am hypogonadal. When I am not on TRT I test around 180. I have been on TRT for the past three years. I have been following the protocol that One of the mail in labs originally started me on. You live and you learn. I did not know any better until recently. My program consisted of 16 to 20 weeks of 200 to 300 mg of test cypionate every week. During this time I would take 2-3 mg of Anastrozole and 20mg of tamoxifen weekly.

Their plan consisted of no HCG on cycle and HCG post cycle with Clomiphene. (Two week pct, two weeks after last shot). They had me taking HCG and Clomiphene together. After the one month of no test, they recommended to go right back on, which I have for the past 3 years. So to clarify, during a years time I would be five months on and one month off and start right back with five months on and one month off.

I have made the common mistake of playing with my doses and upping my doses at times. I have learned (much through this site), that I've probably been taking too much and I am under the belief that less maybe better. My plan is to do this restart and go on TRT at a lower dose and stay on TRT, with HCG.

I now go through my family doctor, and he prescribes me what I need.

It's a learning process and I appreciate your feedback and input.
 
Last edited:
Slhardee said:
Megatron, Yes I am hypogonadal. When I am not on TRT I test around 180. I have been on TRT for the past three years. I have been following the protocol that One of the mail in labs originally started me on. You live and you learn. I did not know any better until recently. My program consisted of 16 to 20 weeks of 200 to 300 mg of test cypionate every week. During this time I would take 2-3 mg of Anastrozole and 20mg of tamoxifen weekly.

Their plan consisted of no HCG on cycle and HCG post cycle with Clomiphene. (Two week pct, two weeks after last shot). They had me taking HCG and Clomiphene together. After the one month of no test, they recommended to go right back on, which I have for the past 3 years. So to clarify, during a years time I would be five months on and one month off and start right back with five months on and one month off.

I have made the common mistake of playing with my doses and upping my doses at times. I have learned (much through this site), that I've probably been taking too much and I am under the belief that less maybe better. My plan is to do this restart and go on TRT at a lower dose and stay on TRT, with HCG.

I know go through my family doctor, and he prescribes me what I need.

It's a learning process and I appreciate your feedback and input.
Click to expand...

You should talk to an attorney about what recourse you may have against that clinic. Doesn't sound like they did you any favors with that protocol.

Get blood work and see where you are at now. See my signature below and use the Private MD - Buy Lab Tests Online one.
 
Why are you on both Clomid and Nolva? Makes little sense to me. As for the sides... clomid made me an emotional wreck. Nolva killed my libido.

Maybe the better question... You stated your plan is to do a restart just to hop back on TRT. Restarts are so you don't have to be TRT. What am I missing in your question? This is completely backwards.

-Jim
 
Last edited:
Jimstigator said:
Why are you on both Clomid and Nolva? Makes little sense to me. As for the sides... clomid made me an emotional wreck. Nolva killed my libido.

Maybe the better question... You stated your plan is to do a restart just to hop back on TRT. Restarts are so you don't have to be TRT. What am I missing in your question? This is completely backwards.

-Jim
Click to expand...

Take a look at the following link. There is a section on PCT and why using both clomid abs nolva is recommended.

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/a.../675497-ology-frequently-asked-questions.html
 
Jimstigator said:
Mega, respectfully... That's a link, to a link, to a thread of bro science. I still don't think it's necessary. I've worked with a top Dr in the country for my restarts and it was never advised. I guess, if it works, then go for it!

-Jim
Click to expand...

Post your studies and theories then. I would love to learn more from you about using SERMs for restarts. Why is one SERM better than two when doing a restart? Don't just quote your doc. We all know that a lot of docs are ignorant about AAS.

Just for the record: if you knew Austinite better you would not accuse him if "broscience".
 
Megatron28 said:
Post your studies and theories then. I would love to learn more from you about using SERMs for restarts. Why is one SERM better than two when doing a restart? Don't just quote your doc. We all know that a lot of docs are ignorant about AAS.

Just for the record: if you knew Austinite better you would not accuse him if "broscience".
Click to expand...

I don't have a study stating using both is bad. I just found, in my own applications, one or the other did the job just fine. Using both only doubled up on the side effects, which can be pretty nasty depending on the guy.

If one study says Clomid works and another says Tamoxifen works, I don't always think the conclusion should be to use both. My Dr aside, reading around the web from posters like Mariano, Crisler, Scally, IMT, etc, I don't think it's very common to use both.

If I am wrong... well, then I am wrong. Happens daily. Like you, just trying to learn and give advice when my hormone struggles might have given me some insight.

-Jim
 
Jimstigator said:
I don't have a study stating using both is bad. I just found, in my own applications, one or the other did the job just fine. Using both only doubled up on the side effects, which can be pretty nasty depending on the guy.

If one study says Clomid works and another says Tamoxifen works, I don't always think the conclusion should be to use both. My Dr aside, reading around the web from posters like Mariano, Crisler, Scally, IMT, etc, I don't think it's very common to use both.

If I am wrong... well, then I am wrong. Happens daily. Like you, just trying to learn and give advice when my hormone struggles might have given me some insight.

-Jim
Click to expand...

It is very common to use both clomid and nolva together for PCT after a cycle.
 
Megatron28 said:
It is very common to use both clomid and nolva together for PCT after a cycle.
Click to expand...

I've stated my opinion - based on my experience with both drugs, used independently and together, with supporting blood work. Love it or hate it.

From what I gather, its common after cycle because people are trying to accomplish two things with two separate drugs during PCT - 1) Gyno protection as testosterone levels drop and estrogen remains high (Nolva) 2) Jumpstart HPTA (Clomid)

Clomid is effective but pretty brutal for those who react adversely to it. I know a guy who still has eye floaters years after taking low dose Clomid for a few weeks. Truth be told - there isn't a drug combo on earth you couldn't make a case for using a population of bodybuilders on a forum.

If it works, and both is best practice, then so be it! I am on TRT... due to three failed restarts over the course of 10 years, so maybe my approach was all wrong :)

-Jim
 
Last edited:
Guys, I did not mean to create or start an argument. My basic first question was about the moodiness/edgyness I've been having during the last 12 days. I know of the debate over SERMS, and I am choosing to do both at this time. My results will be verified by bloodwork...

All I am asking is is this change in my mood normal? I'm just looking for some support here. Again, my workouts remain constant I've been sleeping OK and I generally feel okay for how low I know my T level is right now.

Jimstigator, I see your point about doing this restart. Again, I am a lifelong candidate for TRT. And I've explained during the past 3 years it's been more like "cycles" than TRT. This is why am doing a restart. I'm attempting to get my hormones in better balance and take it from there. Yes, I plan i'm going back on TRT shortly after this restart. I plan on doing this with a low dose of TRT and HCG.

I also believe that it's not a bad idea to do a restart like this even if on TRT. After long periods of time on TRT a restart would not be a bad idea in order to give your body a break and help the hormones get back in Balance IMO...

Thank you again for everyone's feedback..
 
Last edited:
I hear ya, and no worries, it's not an argument. I have nothing but respect for Megatron and literally print alot of his posts for TRT reference. If kept in check, I think some extremely beneficial info can be dropped in the forums by two guys "discussing" hormones a bit :)

To the original question, yes, especially with Clomid, moodiness can occur. Still not sure about your theory of hormonal balance before going on TRT again... But that doesn't mean it's wrong. Over anything I have learned since my body started to suck at hormones... Everyone is different.

-Jim
 
Last edited:
Slhardee said:
Guys, I did not mean to create or start an argument. My basic first question was about the moodiness/edgyness I've been having during the last 12 days. I know of the debate over SERMS, and I am choosing to do both at this time. My results will be verified by bloodwork...

All I am asking is is this change in my mood normal? I'm just looking for some support here. Again, my workouts remain constant I've been sleeping OK and I generally feel okay for how low I know my T level is right now.

Jimstigator, I see your point about doing this restart. Again, I am a lifelong candidate for TRT. And I've explained during the past 3 years it's been more like "cycles" than TRT. This is why am doing a restart. I'm attempting to get my hormones in better balance and take it from there. Yes, I plan i'm going back on TRT shortly after this restart. I plan on doing this with a low dose of TRT and HCG.

I also believe that it's not a bad idea to do a restart like this even if on TRT. After long periods of time on TRT a restart would not be a bad idea in order to give your body a break and help the hormones get back in Balance IMO...

Thank you again for everyone's feedback..
Click to expand...

We are just discussing and learning. I hope it doesn't come across as bickering.

You really need to get blood work as your estradiol may be elevated. You may need to be on an aromatase inhibitor. The good news is that AI's can help get your HPTA working when the feedback loop is open.
 
Thanks Guys!! Yes, I agree it's all discussion and learning...

Jimstigator and Mega, do you guys think I should have just adjusted my T dose and added HCG instead of doing this re-start? Keep in mind, I had NOT been taking HCG on TRT and I know it's a good idea to take HCG w TRT to help LH and FSH.

My LH and FSH are almost completely shut down. My idea was to find my current "baseline" and take it from there.

When LH and FSH are shut down, don't you think it's a good idea to do a restart? When your on TRT, I know LH and FSH will slow down or shut down. Do you guys think this is ok over long periods of time (years). ???
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

T
TRT Bloodwork - 21 Y/O - Fighting this for 2+ yrs now
3 4 5
Replies
92
Views
10K
testingtrt
T
C
38, low-T and frustrated. Looking for feedback. (long)
Replies
8
Views
1K
mikelaurey
M
T
SubQ and IM blast and progressive overload question.
Replies
3
Views
1K
A.B
A.B
D
Possible big side effect on Nebido short interval.
Replies
2
Views
786
Danin76
D
J
TRT and low Test at 18-21
Replies
7
Views
2K
3J
3J
Back
Top