Ph.D. - University professor.
HRT Exit Strategy...
- Thread starter cashout
- Start date
Ph.D. - University professor.
carverelli
I am banned!
Now the whole thread makes perfect sense. What with all the quantative analysis to hypothetically reach a conclusively argumentative but nonetheless aweinspiring outcome ....well theoretically anyway. Lol
25 yr 2 state licensed journeyman plumber PhDs
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Cashout - Fantastic news to hear about you success thus far. I am still eagerly awaiting to do my exit from HRT.
What are your thoughts regarding hMG during a Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) exit, as i will be using this in conjunction with HCG.
I have read that due to hMG's FSH raising effect, recovery is much more optimal when these two drugs are combined. However, it did cost a lot of money!
Marc
What are your thoughts regarding hMG during a Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) exit, as i will be using this in conjunction with HCG.
I have read that due to hMG's FSH raising effect, recovery is much more optimal when these two drugs are combined. However, it did cost a lot of money!
Marc
I really have no basis from which to form an opinion regarding HMG and its place in a exit or post cycle therapy (pct) type of protocol.
There has not been a significant stream of recent research on the drug other than a couple of comparative pharmacological assessments for ovarian stimulation.
My concern would not be the price or the effectiveness of HMG but that people would perceive it as a replacement for Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) and a proven protocol just like they have started to do with triptorelin.
A lot of folks jumped on the triptorelin bandwagon without just clinical support. The sole basis for the "triptorelin for post cycle therapy (pct)" enthusiasm originated from a very poorly controlled single sample case study done by physician in Italy. It has never been replicated successfully and I truly doubt the results he reported where solely related to the application of triptorelin.
So, short answer, on HMG is I don't know.
Ok thanks for the reply Cashout. Just to confirm i will not be using it as a replacement for HCG. I will be using 150i.u of HMG in conjuction with the EOD protocol of 2500i.u of HCG. I just want to try and attack it from all angles, in order to help maximise my chances of recovery. I am only 21, so i hope that my chances fair pretty well and your results thus are very encouraging.
Since I am waiting on my next blood draw - March 5th - I thought it would be a good time to run a bench mark assessment on my training.
So, this week, I'll be bench marking one or two exercises per body part to see what, if any, effect my exit has had on training.
Overall, I still feel great. I have plenty of energy and there really hasn't been a drop off in desire to train or intensity.
So, a couple of quick notes...
Weight: 184.3 pounds
Bodyfat: 8.4% DEXA measured (this morning)
Last night I did chest and here are a few of my numbers...
Flat bench: 14 reps X 275, 12 rep X 275, 10 reps X 275.
EDIT: Back
Close Grip Lat Pulldowns: 12 reps X 250, 12 reps X 250, 10 reps X 250, 10 reps X 250
Barbell Bent Rows: 4 sets 15 reps X 275
That is an improvement of a couple reps over pre-exit and it really felt great. So that is a surprise and I hope that trend continues this week with my other bench marking exercises.
I'll be doing back after lunch today, arms tomorrow, shoulders on Thursday and legs on Friday.
I'll update and edit this post with new numbers throughout the week.
So, this week, I'll be bench marking one or two exercises per body part to see what, if any, effect my exit has had on training.
Overall, I still feel great. I have plenty of energy and there really hasn't been a drop off in desire to train or intensity.
So, a couple of quick notes...
Weight: 184.3 pounds
Bodyfat: 8.4% DEXA measured (this morning)
Last night I did chest and here are a few of my numbers...
Flat bench: 14 reps X 275, 12 rep X 275, 10 reps X 275.
EDIT: Back
Close Grip Lat Pulldowns: 12 reps X 250, 12 reps X 250, 10 reps X 250, 10 reps X 250
Barbell Bent Rows: 4 sets 15 reps X 275
That is an improvement of a couple reps over pre-exit and it really felt great. So that is a surprise and I hope that trend continues this week with my other bench marking exercises.
I'll be doing back after lunch today, arms tomorrow, shoulders on Thursday and legs on Friday.
I'll update and edit this post with new numbers throughout the week.
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TryinToGetStrong
New member
Haha I agree with your entire post, but I don't find Cashout to be an unreliable source. I cant wait to see his March results.
Roger that but I'm not complaining.
I do know the only difference in today and the pre-exit is the drugs that are no longer in my body.
Diet and training and OTC supplements remain consistent from Time 1 to Time 2.
Quick update...still benchmarking...this afternoon arms.
Straight bar barbell curl: 3 set of 10 reps X 135
Alt standing dumbbell curls: 3 sets of 10 reps X 50 lbs dumbbells
Tricep push downs: 3 sets 12 reps X 100
Nose breakers: 3 sets of 10 reps x 135
No surprises there. Still holding steady with the weights and reps on arms.
Still feel great in and out of the gym.
Remaining very optimistic that I'll be able to maintain.
Next blood draw in T minus 11 days and counting.
Straight bar barbell curl: 3 set of 10 reps X 135
Alt standing dumbbell curls: 3 sets of 10 reps X 50 lbs dumbbells
Tricep push downs: 3 sets 12 reps X 100
Nose breakers: 3 sets of 10 reps x 135
No surprises there. Still holding steady with the weights and reps on arms.
Still feel great in and out of the gym.
Remaining very optimistic that I'll be able to maintain.
Next blood draw in T minus 11 days and counting.
One and the same.
Cashout
Glad to hear everything is going well with your exit strategy.
I was curious, and correct me if I am wrong, my understanding is that you were never on Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) during your two year HRT, and that I believe you were not concerned about testicular function for sperm, and that by not using Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), you could cause atrophy of the gonads, so were you taking a risk that you may not be able to restart your testosterone production in your gonads down the road? Did you plan not to go too long at the beginning to avoid this situation? Thanks
Glad to hear everything is going well with your exit strategy.
I was curious, and correct me if I am wrong, my understanding is that you were never on Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) during your two year HRT, and that I believe you were not concerned about testicular function for sperm, and that by not using Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), you could cause atrophy of the gonads, so were you taking a risk that you may not be able to restart your testosterone production in your gonads down the road? Did you plan not to go too long at the beginning to avoid this situation? Thanks
Initially I started my Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) without Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) as part of my protocol. I added it after about two months. It stayed as part of my protocol for about 5 months and we were never able to balance my numbers with it as part of my protocol. I kept having estrogen spikes and that was a problem for me. So, we removed it again and I ran my protocol without for about 18 months prior to my exit.
To answer your question, I had read several differing opinions regarding the use of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) and testicular function. The two positions were, in summary, Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is necessary to maintain test production and proper testicular function and the counter position that Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) was only useful for maintaining sperm production and did not directly contribute to the actual proper function and production of test.
In the end they are both plausible theories but neither has been empirically supported in a meaningful way. So, I was really flying blindly with that potential situation.
As it turns out, without Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) for 18 months, my testes had no problem pumping up to fully functional.
Now, that is only a sample of 1 and I would be totally negligent in saying that others would experience the same type of results.
Regardless, it has cemented my position that a significant application of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) (2000 iu per shot for 10 shots) is really critical for successfully jump starting the testes.
To answer your question, I had read several differing opinions regarding the use of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) and testicular function. The two positions were, in summary, Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is necessary to maintain test production and proper testicular function and the counter position that Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) was only useful for maintaining sperm production and did not directly contribute to the actual proper function and production of test.
In the end they are both plausible theories but neither has been empirically supported in a meaningful way. So, I was really flying blindly with that potential situation.
As it turns out, without Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) for 18 months, my testes had no problem pumping up to fully functional.
Now, that is only a sample of 1 and I would be totally negligent in saying that others would experience the same type of results.
Regardless, it has cemented my position that a significant application of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) (2000 iu per shot for 10 shots) is really critical for successfully jump starting the testes.
Final bench marking session this week...
Did quads/hams/calves today and this is not much of a bench mark body part for me since I have really dialed leg training way way back in the past 5 years.
Anyhow...pretty much one of my standard 3 maintenance routines
Leg extensions: 3 sets X 200 lbs (to positive failure which was 22 reps, 18 reps, 14 reps)
>> SUPER SETTED WITH<<
Leg Press: 3 sets X 24 plates 20 reps per set.
Squats: 3 sets X 15 reps 315.
Lying Leg Curl: 3 sets 15 reps 210 pounds
Standing Calf Raise on Smith Machine: 4 sets 405 X 15 reps
Did quads/hams/calves today and this is not much of a bench mark body part for me since I have really dialed leg training way way back in the past 5 years.
Anyhow...pretty much one of my standard 3 maintenance routines
Leg extensions: 3 sets X 200 lbs (to positive failure which was 22 reps, 18 reps, 14 reps)
>> SUPER SETTED WITH<<
Leg Press: 3 sets X 24 plates 20 reps per set.
Squats: 3 sets X 15 reps 315.
Lying Leg Curl: 3 sets 15 reps 210 pounds
Standing Calf Raise on Smith Machine: 4 sets 405 X 15 reps
Hi Cashout
It is crazy to see these minor improvements in your lifts, even at a time when your body's HPTA is recovering back to homeostasis. How has your training differed during your exit? If at all, i mean do you hold back or still go 'all out'?
It would be interesting to hear about your food intake during the exit too, did you adopt a higher fat approach? As obviously sex steroid hormones are all derived from cholesterol. Or moderate CHO, FATS and PRO?
Any information regarding these factors would be extremely useful for me to consider during my exit, which i am due to undertake a week on Wednesday. Like yourself, i want to be successful and maximise my chances of a smooth and effective recovery.
Thanks,
Marc
It is crazy to see these minor improvements in your lifts, even at a time when your body's HPTA is recovering back to homeostasis. How has your training differed during your exit? If at all, i mean do you hold back or still go 'all out'?
It would be interesting to hear about your food intake during the exit too, did you adopt a higher fat approach? As obviously sex steroid hormones are all derived from cholesterol. Or moderate CHO, FATS and PRO?
Any information regarding these factors would be extremely useful for me to consider during my exit, which i am due to undertake a week on Wednesday. Like yourself, i want to be successful and maximise my chances of a smooth and effective recovery.
Thanks,
Marc
I didn't change a single aspect of my training or diet since I started December 5th.
I train 5 days a week - Monday - Friday - one body part a day.
My diet has been the same as well.
Approx 3000 cals every day 7 days a week.
250 g protien
350 g carbs
50 g fat
5 meals a day each and every day.
Update:
This morning I took my last .625 mgs of letro.
I am officially done with the exit.
My blood work is on March 5th so we should know sometime shortly thereafter how well my numbers have held up over the last 4+ weeks.
Right now I feel great. I have a pic from last night's train session as a marker for my level at this time.
Also, I did something I haven't done in 9 years this morning....I got my Axl Rose long hair cut off. I am now sporting the Ryan Gosling hair cut. It is really strange because I don't recignize myself when I glance at my reflection!
This morning I took my last .625 mgs of letro.
I am officially done with the exit.
My blood work is on March 5th so we should know sometime shortly thereafter how well my numbers have held up over the last 4+ weeks.
Right now I feel great. I have a pic from last night's train session as a marker for my level at this time.
Also, I did something I haven't done in 9 years this morning....I got my Axl Rose long hair cut off. I am now sporting the Ryan Gosling hair cut. It is really strange because I don't recignize myself when I glance at my reflection!
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