HRT Exit Strategy...
- Thread starter cashout
- Start date
The HPTA uses both positive and negative feedback mechanisms so Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) will not produce a spike in LH or FSH as long as there is exogenous test introduced into the system. I did that experiment about a years ago.
I stopped the Test injections and used the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) to stimulate my own system's production.
My LH and FSH are both very high right now - much higher than they were pre-HRT. So by using Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) alone, I've got a good signal that things are functional and the capacity to produce test is still there.
Whether it stays that way going forward is the question. I hope that the clomid and nolva will stablize my levels and perhaps increase them even more.
One thing that I think is an issue right now is that my estrogen is a little higher than I like it. Even on letro, it jumped. I may need to adjust my letro upward to being me estrogen back to the the low 20s were I like to keep it.
CHIP WADOWSKI
New member
THATS THE ONLY PROBLEM WITH Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), IS THAT IT AROMTIZES SO DAMN HEAVILY! SUCKS. I'M AN EXTREMELY ESTROGEN SENSITIVE INDIVIDUAL AND ALWAYS HAVE TO TINKER AROUND A BIT WITH MY Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) TO KEEP THINGS ON TRACK. NO ONE KNOWS YOUR BODY, THOUGH, LIKE YOU DO. YOU'LL GET IT ALL FIGURED OUT. KEEP UP THE GREAT THREAD! 
Update - 7 days on Clomid/Nolva
This morning is the 7th day of Clomid/Nolva treatment.
So far, so good.
Energy levels are still high. No change in strength or training intensity.
Perhaps the only noticeable thing that I can identify at this time is that it seems a little more difficult to get and keep a pump this last week.
I can't say that it has anything to do with the exit but more to do with the fact that I've been training at a substandard gym down here near my beach house. The equipment is pretty sparse and that makes it tougher to get a quality workout.
So, again everything seems to be going well. I don't get bloods done again for another 23 days. Then we'll see if and how well the Clomid/Nolva has done to improve my test levels beyond my last draw.
This morning is the 7th day of Clomid/Nolva treatment.
So far, so good.
Energy levels are still high. No change in strength or training intensity.
Perhaps the only noticeable thing that I can identify at this time is that it seems a little more difficult to get and keep a pump this last week.
I can't say that it has anything to do with the exit but more to do with the fact that I've been training at a substandard gym down here near my beach house. The equipment is pretty sparse and that makes it tougher to get a quality workout.
So, again everything seems to be going well. I don't get bloods done again for another 23 days. Then we'll see if and how well the Clomid/Nolva has done to improve my test levels beyond my last draw.
maxxmill17
New member
Hey Cash..whats your thoughts on DHT as you come off test? propecia still? or too strong?
I've used it for 17 years and its provided me with a great head of hair. I'm not stopping now.
maxxmill17
New member
understood
Full Qualitative Update on the Exit
I am a full 4+ weeks through this exit plan so I feel like now is a pretty good time to post some general observations. Before I do, I’ll say that there isn’t too much to report in terms of changes in my sense of well being, training, and overall performance.
So, I started this exit with 10 injections of 2000 iu of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) on an EOD schedule for 19 days. As the blood test showed, overall my numbers for Total Test, Free Test, FSH & LH were elevated over my pre-HRT numbers. That was good to see and supports the conclusion that the ‘machinery’ is fully functional.
The lesson I learned YET AGAIN is that Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) causes significant aromatization EVEN in the presence of a strong Aromatase inhibitor (AI) like Letro. Yes, my estrogen number jumped more than 10 points even though I was administering Letro a 1.25 mgs on Mon/Thurs. If I had to do it over, I’d run the Letro on a M/W/F schedule. This left me feeling a little softer and looking a little less grainy than normal. More importantly, I think if my Aromatase inhibitor (AI) would have been dosed on M/W/F @ 1.25 per, I would have possibly seen a higher overall elevation in my total test level. So, I think I let some of my test get away and that may have help the negative feedback loop slow the production to something less than optimal.
Right now, I’m a full 10 days into my 30 days of Clomid and 45 days of Nolva while still running the Letro on Mon/Thurs @ 1.25 per. I feel fine during training. There has been no drop off whatsoever. The only thing that is apparent at this point is the gym in which I’m training down here at my beach house is substandard for my needs. That’s a whole different story.
My mental state is status quo. I test this regularly by playing chess daily against my computer and some of the locals here at the beach. I’ve yet to drop a match to either an artificial or human opponent. I am also having no trouble focusing and staying on task. I am currently working on the next edition of my textbook and the work has been fluid and effortless.
Of course the one big concern I have is my overall resistance and immunity. Before Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT), I started to experience colds and flu-like bugs about 3 times a year. That had never happened to me in my adult life. While, I really cannot assess that aspect of my health in a measurable fashion, I can say that so far I haven’t had anything like a cold, flu, or general ‘over trained’ feeling.
So, that sums up my experience to date. I am not scheduled for blood work until the January 23, which will be the end of my Clomid applications, so I won’t have any quantification to report until that time. As I noted previously, I am optimistic that the Clomid/Nolva combination will further elevate my levels.
I am a full 4+ weeks through this exit plan so I feel like now is a pretty good time to post some general observations. Before I do, I’ll say that there isn’t too much to report in terms of changes in my sense of well being, training, and overall performance.
So, I started this exit with 10 injections of 2000 iu of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) on an EOD schedule for 19 days. As the blood test showed, overall my numbers for Total Test, Free Test, FSH & LH were elevated over my pre-HRT numbers. That was good to see and supports the conclusion that the ‘machinery’ is fully functional.
The lesson I learned YET AGAIN is that Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) causes significant aromatization EVEN in the presence of a strong Aromatase inhibitor (AI) like Letro. Yes, my estrogen number jumped more than 10 points even though I was administering Letro a 1.25 mgs on Mon/Thurs. If I had to do it over, I’d run the Letro on a M/W/F schedule. This left me feeling a little softer and looking a little less grainy than normal. More importantly, I think if my Aromatase inhibitor (AI) would have been dosed on M/W/F @ 1.25 per, I would have possibly seen a higher overall elevation in my total test level. So, I think I let some of my test get away and that may have help the negative feedback loop slow the production to something less than optimal.
Right now, I’m a full 10 days into my 30 days of Clomid and 45 days of Nolva while still running the Letro on Mon/Thurs @ 1.25 per. I feel fine during training. There has been no drop off whatsoever. The only thing that is apparent at this point is the gym in which I’m training down here at my beach house is substandard for my needs. That’s a whole different story.
My mental state is status quo. I test this regularly by playing chess daily against my computer and some of the locals here at the beach. I’ve yet to drop a match to either an artificial or human opponent. I am also having no trouble focusing and staying on task. I am currently working on the next edition of my textbook and the work has been fluid and effortless.
Of course the one big concern I have is my overall resistance and immunity. Before Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT), I started to experience colds and flu-like bugs about 3 times a year. That had never happened to me in my adult life. While, I really cannot assess that aspect of my health in a measurable fashion, I can say that so far I haven’t had anything like a cold, flu, or general ‘over trained’ feeling.
So, that sums up my experience to date. I am not scheduled for blood work until the January 23, which will be the end of my Clomid applications, so I won’t have any quantification to report until that time. As I noted previously, I am optimistic that the Clomid/Nolva combination will further elevate my levels.
Hi Cashout,
Reading your thread is extremely helpful, as i am also coming off HRT over the next few months.
I am only 21 and have been on HRT for the past 3 years due to having low testosterone, as a result of low body fat for an extended duration of time. My endocrinologist along with other specialists believe that this condition is reversible, however she wishes to 'wean me off' trt. I believe this is a bad idea.
I will be carrying out Dr. Scally's post cycle therapy (pct) protocol (very much similar to yours), but i just have to wait for the long ester of nebido to clear my system before i can begin.
You seem extremely knowledgeable in the area and i would love to have your input, in your opinion do you think i have a chance of my hpta returning back to normal?
Thanks,
Marc
Reading your thread is extremely helpful, as i am also coming off HRT over the next few months.
I am only 21 and have been on HRT for the past 3 years due to having low testosterone, as a result of low body fat for an extended duration of time. My endocrinologist along with other specialists believe that this condition is reversible, however she wishes to 'wean me off' trt. I believe this is a bad idea.
I will be carrying out Dr. Scally's post cycle therapy (pct) protocol (very much similar to yours), but i just have to wait for the long ester of nebido to clear my system before i can begin.
You seem extremely knowledgeable in the area and i would love to have your input, in your opinion do you think i have a chance of my hpta returning back to normal?
Thanks,
Marc
Everyone is different and there are so many variables to HPTA restoration so I wouldn't hazard a guess as to whether it is possible to restore yours.
I know the Scally Protocol very well. It has been around since the early 1990s. Actually it was Dan Duchanie that developed it and first promoted what is now known as the Scally Protocol.
I would think that it is an appropriate starting point for one coming off HRT but it really requires fine tuning based on one's own body.
For instance, I know that Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) cause me to aromatize very significantly, hence we added the Letro into my exit plan to help mitigate the effects of estrogen in the negative feedback loop in the HPTA.
So, I would recommend doing as much personal homework on your own body in order to tailor and exit for your specific needs.
Everyone is different and there are so many variables to HPTA restoration so I wouldn't hazard a guess as to whether it is possible to restore yours.
I know the Scally Protocol very well. It has been around since the early 1990s. Actually it was Dan Duchanie that developed it and first promoted what is now known as the Scally Protocol.
I would think that it is an appropriate starting point for one coming off HRT but it really requires fine tuning based on one's own body.
For instance, I know that HCG cause me to aromatize very significantly, hence we added the Letro into my exit plan to help mitigate the effects of estrogen in the negative feedback loop in the HPTA.
So, I would recommend doing as much personal homework on your own body in order to tailor and exit for your specific needs.
Thanks for the reply. I will be sure to speak to as many 'experts' in the field as possible prior to carrying out the post cycle therapy (pct).
However, first i have to get a varicoele removed from my left testicle as i believe this may well negatively influence my recovery (based on the research it reduces the number of leydig cells within your testes).
I will keep checking your thread, as i find it extremely helpful.
Marc
I know the Scally Protocol very well. It has been around since the early 1990s. Actually it was Dan Duchanie that developed it and first promoted what is now known as the Scally Protocol.
I would think that it is an appropriate starting point for one coming off HRT but it really requires fine tuning based on one's own body.
For instance, I know that HCG cause me to aromatize very significantly, hence we added the Letro into my exit plan to help mitigate the effects of estrogen in the negative feedback loop in the HPTA.
So, I would recommend doing as much personal homework on your own body in order to tailor and exit for your specific needs.
Thanks for the reply. I will be sure to speak to as many 'experts' in the field as possible prior to carrying out the post cycle therapy (pct).
However, first i have to get a varicoele removed from my left testicle as i believe this may well negatively influence my recovery (based on the research it reduces the number of leydig cells within your testes).
I will keep checking your thread, as i find it extremely helpful.
Marc
So far so good.
I have my next blood draw on the 23rd of January - next Monday so I'll have more quantitative evidence a few days thereafter.
Right now, I feel fine. No changes of any kind to report so far.
EnhancedAthlete
New member
Hey Cash, did you get your results back yet from the blood draw? How is everything looking?
Blood work is in as of this morning but I couldn't schedule my follow up appt until Feb 1st b/c my doc is out at a conference this week.
So, I have to wait a few more days...
EnhancedAthlete
New member
Good luck with your appointment. I'm sure all will go well.
I feel fine - no changes to report in that regard. Training is good. Energy levels are status quo. Not issues with focus.
So far so good....
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