swoleup
New member
Cheap lunchbox at Wally World. Cheap insurance to keep it cold.
Igf-1lr3
- Thread starter bfriedman1017
- Start date
hard2gain
New member
So when doing this would you do 40 mcg of each?
They definitely need to be stored cold, but I THINK they're fine for an hour or so. Peps are very fragile and can degrade easily so i'd def keep it cold with an ice pack to and from places. Mine shipped with a cold pack in powder form still so take that for what it's worth.
So there has been some very good post here, you guys have been doing your homework and I'm happy to see the guys posting pretty accurate info. Osta-M good explanation.
I have ran igf on and off non stop for about 20 something months now. Almost two years.
IMO, igf shares shuttling properties of insulin but at a much lower rate unless you really increase the dose but you aren't taking any of the risk so it's pretty easy to figure out for the vast majority igf is the way to go.
I personally use igf DES pre workout, 60-100mcg, I've went as high as 200mcg but decided it got to expensive. I then use lr3 post wo.
Igf is excellent any time but I love it during pct and after. It really helps to maintain the muscle you have added. It seems to help remain lean, there are some thoughts that lr3 has some effect on lydeg cells and helps to speed recovery.
Now since it will help shuttle nutrients, I use 60-100 mcg pre workout with a shake consisting of protien and carbs (fast and slow), bcaa's, creatine, glutamine and add others if you want. At 100mcg and above, I found that I was losing energy fast once I started training so I added the same shake during training. I believe this helped replace and maintain glycogen stores and kept energy up. I then dose lr3 40-100mcg about 30-60 minutes pwo then have a third shake or a full meal.
Pumps are ridiculous dosing this way. I normally am not a big fan of shakes, but with igf or slin the point is to shuttle important nutrients at the ideal times. With shakes you can get fast and slow absorbing carbs and protiens. On average I add 50g protien, 30-50g carbs, 5-10g bcaa, 5-10 creatine, 5-10 glutamine to each shake.
You are getting all of what you need at the right times. You could drop the third and just have a meal. I would keep the third one if it were slin but a meal is probably better with igf since glycogen shouldn't be depleted.
People always compare igf to gh. I don't. Yes gh passes through the liver and produces igf which can then create new muscle cells, those cells are then grown and matured with AAS use. IMO with the igf peptide, I mostly use it for insulin like factors, but in the right environment between AAS, diet, training, hyperplasia may occur but I can't say for sure. With igf created by gh inside the body I believe the igf to take a different pathway. This is just my opinion, not a fact of any sort.
So I would say igf is a go to peptide. I recon with aa. I know guys who use bac water but I think they are using the entire vial in a week. I know even more who believe it works perfectly fine in BW but I stick to aa. It needs to be kept in the fridge in both powder and reconstituted form. Don't spray the aa directly onto the powder, slowly let it drip down the side of the vial and do not shake the vial. If it doesn't instantly mix, either let it sit for a few minutes or slowly roll it in one direction between your hands.
It can be injected sub Q or IM. I do both in no particular order. Some believe you can micro dose DES for site growth but im not sure. That would mean pinning say 5-10mcg in 5 or so different spots over a one inch area of the muscle you are trying to grow. I don't personally do that.
I have ran igf on and off non stop for about 20 something months now. Almost two years.
IMO, igf shares shuttling properties of insulin but at a much lower rate unless you really increase the dose but you aren't taking any of the risk so it's pretty easy to figure out for the vast majority igf is the way to go.
I personally use igf DES pre workout, 60-100mcg, I've went as high as 200mcg but decided it got to expensive. I then use lr3 post wo.
Igf is excellent any time but I love it during pct and after. It really helps to maintain the muscle you have added. It seems to help remain lean, there are some thoughts that lr3 has some effect on lydeg cells and helps to speed recovery.
Now since it will help shuttle nutrients, I use 60-100 mcg pre workout with a shake consisting of protien and carbs (fast and slow), bcaa's, creatine, glutamine and add others if you want. At 100mcg and above, I found that I was losing energy fast once I started training so I added the same shake during training. I believe this helped replace and maintain glycogen stores and kept energy up. I then dose lr3 40-100mcg about 30-60 minutes pwo then have a third shake or a full meal.
Pumps are ridiculous dosing this way. I normally am not a big fan of shakes, but with igf or slin the point is to shuttle important nutrients at the ideal times. With shakes you can get fast and slow absorbing carbs and protiens. On average I add 50g protien, 30-50g carbs, 5-10g bcaa, 5-10 creatine, 5-10 glutamine to each shake.
You are getting all of what you need at the right times. You could drop the third and just have a meal. I would keep the third one if it were slin but a meal is probably better with igf since glycogen shouldn't be depleted.
People always compare igf to gh. I don't. Yes gh passes through the liver and produces igf which can then create new muscle cells, those cells are then grown and matured with AAS use. IMO with the igf peptide, I mostly use it for insulin like factors, but in the right environment between AAS, diet, training, hyperplasia may occur but I can't say for sure. With igf created by gh inside the body I believe the igf to take a different pathway. This is just my opinion, not a fact of any sort.
So I would say igf is a go to peptide. I recon with aa. I know guys who use bac water but I think they are using the entire vial in a week. I know even more who believe it works perfectly fine in BW but I stick to aa. It needs to be kept in the fridge in both powder and reconstituted form. Don't spray the aa directly onto the powder, slowly let it drip down the side of the vial and do not shake the vial. If it doesn't instantly mix, either let it sit for a few minutes or slowly roll it in one direction between your hands.
It can be injected sub Q or IM. I do both in no particular order. Some believe you can micro dose DES for site growth but im not sure. That would mean pinning say 5-10mcg in 5 or so different spots over a one inch area of the muscle you are trying to grow. I don't personally do that.
I have also ran this different durations. 4 on 4 off, 50 days on 30 days off. I tend to stay with one or the other just depending on how I feel. I have used igf from several different places, I have yet to try igf from osta or greatwhite. SRC had one of the strongest I have used.
I may try the other sponsors as a comparison but I don't like to put one against another I would rather just decide whether or not it was strong and good product.
I may try the other sponsors as a comparison but I don't like to put one against another I would rather just decide whether or not it was strong and good product.
Zeek
Community Veteran
Awesome info User! and it dosn't get better than coming from a guy who has been steady on it for two years!
i want to know more about this in particular because I have my own set of ideas on this..
Quoting you from above
"With igf created by gh inside the body I believe the igf to take a different pathway. This is just my opinion, not a fact of any sort. "
there is actually a growing number of people to fall in line behind this idea, would you mind explaining it out.
i want to know more about this in particular because I have my own set of ideas on this..
Quoting you from above
"With igf created by gh inside the body I believe the igf to take a different pathway. This is just my opinion, not a fact of any sort. "
there is actually a growing number of people to fall in line behind this idea, would you mind explaining it out.
ZEEK let me gather my thoughts on it. I basically know what I'm trying to say but don't want to present it in the wrong way.
I can say that I have read different claims of the molecule being to large to actually fit the receptor with lr3 but I don't know this to be true or false. There are so many mixed opinions on it.
What I do know is that it has been beneficial to me. Gains aren't going to come in the form they do with AAS but that's not a fair comparison. Look at gh when used alone. It's beneficial but the synergy with test is even greater and this is how I feel about igf. You are creating the optimal environment for growth.
I know that has nothing to do with the question you asked ZEEK but I need to think more before I can give an educated opinion.
If anyone else has any thoughts I would love to hear them.
I can say that I have read different claims of the molecule being to large to actually fit the receptor with lr3 but I don't know this to be true or false. There are so many mixed opinions on it.
What I do know is that it has been beneficial to me. Gains aren't going to come in the form they do with AAS but that's not a fair comparison. Look at gh when used alone. It's beneficial but the synergy with test is even greater and this is how I feel about igf. You are creating the optimal environment for growth.
I know that has nothing to do with the question you asked ZEEK but I need to think more before I can give an educated opinion.
If anyone else has any thoughts I would love to hear them.
Zeek
Community Veteran
it's the whole native IGF VS the injected one. native IGF is supposed to better of the two.
But then I think about the term GH gut. This was term was around before IGF became popular and mainstream. So the native IGF is not totally harmless in itself either.
No worries though bro it is late but rest assured that I'm going to pick your brain on this topic when you are ready and willing to get into it.
Have you had any IGF-1 levels checked while on IGF. Either DES or LR3?
But then I think about the term GH gut. This was term was around before IGF became popular and mainstream. So the native IGF is not totally harmless in itself either.
No worries though bro it is late but rest assured that I'm going to pick your brain on this topic when you are ready and willing to get into it.
Have you had any IGF-1 levels checked while on IGF. Either DES or LR3?
DaHurt
Motivated
I used IGF-1 DES for the first time tonight on my rat for his calf workout, to begin PCT from a 4 week Epistane cycle. Injected 80 mcg bilaterally IM in his calves. The pumps were amazing and he felt like his calves were going to explode off the back of his legs, almost painfully so...almost!
IGF-1 is a very interesting, very powerful peptide, and there are still many studies being done to elucidate its various mechanisms. It was mentioned earlier that GH is converted to IGF-1 in the liver - this is kind of true - while GH does induce hepatic IGF-1 production, it isn't actually converted to IGF-1, but binds to hepatic receptors that signal a cascade resulting in igf-1 transcription. There are also studies that suggest IGF-1 may act in an autocrine fashion as well - stimulating local production of the peptide in positive feedback mechanism.
We have done studies with fish that have involved starving an experimental group for over 60 days, while a control of the same cohort (age group) was fed ad libitum to satiation daily. The result was fish that were half the size of the fed group. They were then given exogenous IGF-1 for the next month at a moderate dosage and fed ad libitum...the result was a compensatory growth response, and after 1 month the starved fish were not statistically different in size than the fed fish! Now that is a physiological response!
IGF-1 is a very interesting, very powerful peptide, and there are still many studies being done to elucidate its various mechanisms. It was mentioned earlier that GH is converted to IGF-1 in the liver - this is kind of true - while GH does induce hepatic IGF-1 production, it isn't actually converted to IGF-1, but binds to hepatic receptors that signal a cascade resulting in igf-1 transcription. There are also studies that suggest IGF-1 may act in an autocrine fashion as well - stimulating local production of the peptide in positive feedback mechanism.
We have done studies with fish that have involved starving an experimental group for over 60 days, while a control of the same cohort (age group) was fed ad libitum to satiation daily. The result was fish that were half the size of the fed group. They were then given exogenous IGF-1 for the next month at a moderate dosage and fed ad libitum...the result was a compensatory growth response, and after 1 month the starved fish were not statistically different in size than the fed fish! Now that is a physiological response!
Zeek
Community Veteran
How many vials did you end up buying?and what dosages are you going to run it at? duration of time, as in how many weeks on?
Zeek
Community Veteran
that is ineresting DaHurt! So you got the massive pumps from the DES at 80 mcg and i got it hard and heavy at 100. our other guy using it now is doing 50mcg and not getting pumps. All 3 of us bought the same IGF from the same place. This is good to know also. there seems to be a minimum effective dose at least for the mad pumps.
DaHurt
Motivated
Zeek by native IGF do you mean the naturally-produced endogenous IGF?
If so, the key difference between the synthetic IGFs and native IGF is modulation by IGFBPs or IGF binding proteins. IGFBPs bind free IGF in the circulation and inhibit binding to IGF receptors in somatic cells. IGF DES and IGF lr3 do not bind IGFBPs like the native peptide and are thus free to induce somatic growth.
DaHurt
Motivated
Zeek - the pumps were most definitely there with 80 for me - far beyond any normal pump I would experience...and I was skeptical so it most definitely wasn't "in my head". One set of 20 donkey raises and they were so swollen it *almost* hurt too much!
Zeek
Community Veteran
I followed you on your last post and understood it well. This one took 3 reads but I finally got it lol
Lets look at "GH gut" that is coming from native IGF. because it was around before IGF was.
is it because of where the Gh mostly gets injected? stomach area?
Zeek
Community Veteran
Bump for Balboa this was directed at you bro
DaHurt
Motivated
I'm not quite sure - I would bet that it is more a result of the amount of IGF induced by GH. GH induces IGF-1 transcription at a ratio far greater than 1:1...probably orders of magnitude greater. I'd bet that the amount of synthetic IGF we inject is nowhere near the levels of hepatic IGF induced by exogenous GH. And IF we were to mirror those levels (induced by GH) with exogenous synthetic IGFs, the resultant organ growth would probably be equal or even greater. I do know that in some organisms GH also induces IGF-2, which is a very anabolic peptide, generally only active during early development, and very hyperplasic.
THIS IS ALL SPECULATION THOUGH.
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