Is it bad to have your Free testosterone too high?

[nesto719]

Got my levels back and it shows total Testosterone in the high normal range 1058 range 243-1150 free t was 278 top range was 155. Estradiol at 65. Hemoglobin way high and hematocrit way high. This was on 120 mgs E5d. I have now cut back to 80mg e5d and thinking of cutting to 50-60 mg e5d with 200iu Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) x2 weekly. Anyways I am yet to feel any benefits from taking try. My shbg was low to begin with at 16. Can too high of free t make one feel like shit?

 

[methos]

I feel my best when my estradiol is in the low twenties. I aim for 1300-1500 on my total T. The only negative affects I have had regarding bloodwork is the high hemocrit at about 53%. if my E was as high as yours, I would be feeling like crap.

 

[methos]

I should also mention that I pin 2x per week to keep things a bit more stable.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

Got my levels back and it shows total Testosterone in the high normal range 1058 range 243-1150 free t was 278 top range was 155. Estradiol at 65. Hemoglobin way high and hematocrit way high. This was on 120 mgs E5d. I have now cut back to 80mg e5d and thinking of cutting to 50-60 mg e5d with 200iu Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) x2 weekly. Anyways I am yet to feel any benefits from taking try. My shbg was low to begin with at 16. Can too high of free t make one feel like shit?

Yes it sure can, back off and get it in normal range, that will help.

 

[NateDEEzy]

Lab corp uses a free testosterone range of 52-280 pg/ml so it seems like ur still alright, but who knows.. seems like the E2 is why ud not be feeling well

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

Lab corp uses a free testosterone range of 52-280 pg/ml so it seems like ur still alright, but who knows.. seems like the E2 is why ud not be feeling well

You would think that is the case, but low SHBG is a very prevalent problem with some men on HRT.

 

[juced_porkchop]

Lab corp uses a free testosterone range of 52-280 pg/ml so it seems like ur still alright, but who knows.. seems like the E2 is why ud not be feeling well

I was thinking E2 also.

 

[nesto719]

Yeah the lab was quest and it maxed out at 155. So being that my shbg is low does that mean that I need less T to get results?

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

I was thinking E2 also.

Honestly E2 has never been proven to affect libido at all, I believe we have thought it was E2 for years, but new research suggests it may actually be low SHBG, there is a very strong correlation between estrogen and SHBG, so that is most likely why it was confusing everyone for so long.

This is not the first time I have seen this either, I work with guys everyday and see labs, SHBG is a major problem, especially the older you get. It is very important to monitor it.

My E has tested over 150 and I was as horny as a dawg, my E was low and libido was shit, I assumed it was E2, when in reality it may have been due to aroma suppression, whcih leads to lowered SHBG, which leads to insulin resistance.

 

[lucius11]

Good stuff to know. How often should us older folks monitor SHBG. I have not tested SHBG ever ... as far as I can recall. I have not been monitoring free test very much either. I can see PrivateMDLabs has a Hormone Panel with F&T Testosterone & SHBG. It's a bit more expensive than the simple female panel that I usually run and lacks a complete blood count (although this could be added for additional cost), but this panel could be done every so often.

 

[tgone]

Honestly E2 has never been proven to affect libido at all, I believe we have thought it was E2 for years, but new research suggests it may actually be low SHBG, there is a very strong correlation between estrogen and SHBG, so that is most likely why it was confusing everyone for so long.

This is not the first time I have seen this either, I work with guys everyday and see labs, SHBG is a major problem, especially the older you get. It is very important to monitor it.

My E has tested over 150 and I was as horny as a dawg, my E was low and libido was shit, I assumed it was E2, when in reality it may have been due to aroma suppression, whcih leads to lowered SHBG, which leads to insulin resistance.

So what is the best way to raise SHBG? Thanks

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

There is no good way.

Also it doesn't happen to everyone.

Only thing you can really try is lowering your androgen intake, and fine tuning thyroid, since it is possibly the partial culprit. Usually though, it happens to those that take too much test, what is too much? well that is different for everyone, so it needs to be handled case by case.

You can't go by the range either, you have to go in relation to TT.

 

[juced_porkchop]

Honestly E2 has never been proven to affect libido at all, I believe we have thought it was E2 for years, but new research suggests it may actually be low SHBG, there is a very strong correlation between estrogen and SHBG, so that is most likely why it was confusing everyone for so long.

This is not the first time I have seen this either, I work with guys everyday and see labs, SHBG is a major problem, especially the older you get. It is very important to monitor it.

My E has tested over 150 and I was as horny as a dawg, my E was low and libido was shit, I assumed it was E2, when in reality it may have been due to aroma suppression, whcih leads to lowered SHBG, which leads to insulin resistance.

I didnt mean for really for libido, but for mood and other issues like edema. but I DEFF should take a look at what you mention. never really looked at having low SHBG as a bad thing, but you could be right. need to research some new angles on this one.

thanks

 

[tgone]

There is no good way.

Also it doesn't happen to everyone.

Only thing you can really try is lowering your androgen intake, and fine tuning thyroid, since it is possibly the partial culprit. Usually though, it happens to those that take too much test, what is too much? well that is different for everyone, so it needs to be handled case by case.

You can't go by the range either, you have to go in relation to TT.

This is interesting, and now has me wondering if this has been what has happened to me. I have been on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) for close to 3 years now, and the last 1.5 years have seemed nothing like the first 1.5 years. Libido, energy, and muscle gains have decreased dramatically. I have tried to attribute it to E2 at times, the receptor myth, etc., but I have not gotten back to that sweet spot...

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

This is interesting, and now has me wondering if this has been what has happened to me. I have been on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) for close to 3 years now, and the last 1.5 years have seemed nothing like the first 1.5 years. Libido, energy, and muscle gains have decreased dramatically. I have tried to attribute it to E2 at times, the receptor myth, etc., but I have not gotten back to that sweet spot...

check your levels and see if titration is needed, also look into supplements that mediate the GABAergic pathways.

Check

Vitamin D3 25 hydroxy
1,25 dihydroxy
ferritin
folate
SHBG
TT

The problem is there somewhere man, it may be tough to find, but it literally could be as simple as lowering your dose a tad.

Also it could be multiple factors so don't give up.

I have also seen guys come off for 3-4 months, with proper HPTA restart, and then go back and things are better. Lots of things for you to try.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

For years the BB community has thought a higher free roaming testosterone will increase androgenic affects, I am guilty of this too.

SHBG is the carrier protein for testosterone, so while it makes sense that SHBG be low, its like anything else, too low is bad too high is bad, keep in mind the range means nothing, it is in relation to TT.

If you have really low SHBG it could simply mean you don't have enough to carry the testosterone to its target tissues, SHBG does not bind perm to testosterone, it is attaching and releasing continuously.

To make things even more complicated, recent literature suggests that SHBG participates in cross-talks, in other words, it may play a role in the the ability for the androgen to effectively activate a receptor.

This is just further proof that more of one hormone is not always better (test) it is better and results will show, if all hormones are optimized, this is where the synergy lies.

 

[nesto719]

So what should tt be with shbg of 16?

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

I didnt mean for really for libido, but for mood and other issues like edema. but I DEFF should take a look at what you mention. never really looked at having low SHBG as a bad thing, but you could be right. need to research some new angles on this one.

thanks

I hear you brother, and I do agree, it does make you lethargic, the edema also sucks.

 

[nesto719]

What is The ideal shbg #?

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

So what should tt be with shbg of 16?

Dont worry about the actual numbers, free roaming % is a calculation using SHBG and TT.

So concentrate on the %, the exact % will be what you like, or what rectifies symptoms.

The only way to know precisely what is free is to get a bio available testosterone test, and these are quite expensive.

Also for guys that have this problem, it may be wise for them to go with a low testosterone dose and a more hefty Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) dose, this will stimulate Aroma and that increase SHBG.

Your protocol just needs to be played with a little it make take time to find whats best for you but it can be done.

E2 under 50 is not a worry. Unless it is getting higher than that don't use Aromatase inhibitor (AI), this will drive SHBG down further.

For those reading this does not mean everyone should stop taking an Aromatase inhibitor (AI), some need it and it does not create a problem.

I have a feeling I will be seeing a few "should I stop my Aromatase inhibitor (AI) threads"

If it aint broke don't fix it