is it ok to bulk at 15% BF?

[Gumaro]

currently, i am 15% BF, 200lbs- 5'10. i was thinking of trimming down before bulking up but i wanted to try something different. i am thinking of doing an 8 weke cycle of fina (6 weeks) and test prop (8 weeks) of bulking, followed by 12-16 weeks of cutting down with prop (12-16 weeks), fina (last 8 weeks), halo (last 4 weeks), clen, ECA and T3.

just wondering if you guys agree with bulking at 15% or is that too much?

this will be my third cycle

 

[tman55]

imo many people on this board probably bulk at or above 15%.

 

[huskyguy]

If were you I would cut first then bulk, too much bodyfat to start bulking.

 

[Drace]

If you want to go for it..
15% isnt bad.
Depends what you want your outcome to be. Different stroked for different fokes.

 

[drk_diggler]

You can easily get too 12-13 % in 2 weeks with correct diet and cardio so unless you have a good reason not too then why not drop some bf first...

 

[Behemoth]

It all depends on what you consider fat. Different people are going to tell you different things. What are your long term goals? Remember that once you get to a certain point, your existing fat cells stop expanding and your body begins making new fat cells. It is very difficult to lose fat cells, typically they just shrink when you cut.
But in the end, it is a personal choice. I would cut down to at least 12%, if not 10%, then begin bulking. I don't like to go over 17-18%, personally, and you're getting real close.

 

[Trevdog]

I think it makes a lot of sense to bulk first, and I'll tell you why.

Muscle burns calories like nobody's business. In fact, each additional pound of muscle you gain will burn 30-50 extra calories per day, at rest. That means that if you manage to gain 10 lbs. of lean mass in your bulking phase, the amount of calories your body needs to maintain your weight increases by 300-500 per day. That's a lot.

The more muscle mass you carry, the easier it is to get and stay lean.

Also, some will disagree, but I have had success in bulking and then cutting in the same cycle. It has always been hard for me to stuff myself for weeks on end and my gains tend to level off anyway.

I think your plan makes sense. 15% isn't that bad anyway.

 

[Spectre]

I think allot of people tend to have success either way, but if you are a natural fat guy like myself, I can pack on the fat quicker and quicker as my BF percentage rises. Sides will be allot less at a lower BF and not such drastic dieting in the end to get it back. Personally I like to lean out as much as I can first because my losses from dieting come back quick on cycle. Figure out what your body did before and your goals, do what you think is going to work best for you, or experiment and try something different. I like what Trevdog is saying.. Don't be affraid to change up within a cycle. Be clean for a few weeks and then hit it hard for a few more..

 

[GymLift]

I'm going to go with Trevdog's advice.

As for your cycle, I'm not a fan. Your stats are almost identical to my own, and yet I haven't yet done a cycle. I haven't been training that long for that matter.

I say stick with test. If you must, then just use test+tren or something like that.

The clen, ECA and t3 are a totally seperate issue. But if you are bulking, then you shouldn't be using the T3 in my opinion.

Train better if you aren't already.

 

[ManOfMuscle]

I think it makes a lot of sense to bulk first, and I'll tell you why.

Muscle burns calories like nobody's business. In fact, each additional pound of muscle you gain will burn 30-50 extra calories per day, at rest. That means that if you manage to gain 10 lbs. of lean mass in your bulking phase, the amount of calories your body needs to maintain your weight increases by 300-500 per day. That's a lot.

The more muscle mass you carry, the easier it is to get and stay lean.

Also, some will disagree, but I have had success in bulking and then cutting in the same cycle. It has always been hard for me to stuff myself for weeks on end and my gains tend to level off anyway.

I think your plan makes sense. 15% isn't that bad anyway.

Cosigns to that and also I agree with Mranak in that you are using too much gear at your size. Especially if this is your third cycle.

 

[yankeesuck]

It all depends on what you consider fat. Different people are going to tell you different things. What are your long term goals? Remember that once you get to a certain point, your existing fat cells stop expanding and your body begins making new fat cells. It is very difficult to lose fat cells, typically they just shrink when you cut.
But in the end, it is a personal choice. I would cut down to at least 12%, if not 10%, then begin bulking. I don't like to go over 17-18%, personally, and you're getting real close.

Your body makes NEW fat cells? Not flaming at all but I disagree with that. Can you show me any study or medical evidence of this? So if someone gets liposuction and has the fat cells removed then you are saying the fat cells can grow back?

 

[yankeesuck]

yup

I think it makes a lot of sense to bulk first, and I'll tell you why.

Muscle burns calories like nobody's business. In fact, each additional pound of muscle you gain will burn 30-50 extra calories per day, at rest. That means that if you manage to gain 10 lbs. of lean mass in your bulking phase, the amount of calories your body needs to maintain your weight increases by 300-500 per day. That's a lot.

The more muscle mass you carry, the easier it is to get and stay lean.

I agree with this. Go ahead and bulk and grow some new muscle. When you decide to cut it will be all that much easier.

 

[Trevdog]

Your body makes NEW fat cells? Not flaming at all but I disagree with that. Can you show me any study or medical evidence of this? So if someone gets liposuction and has the fat cells removed then you are saying the fat cells can grow back?

I'm not so motivated about this to go look for a study, but this is pretty well known. Fat cells can swell a lot, but when they can't swell any more, the body still has to store the excess energy, so it does make new fat cells. I don't know when this occurs, but I strongly suspect it isn't a concern for someone at 15% bodyfat.

This is one reason why liposuction is attractive to people that have been really fat, it actually reduces the number of fat cells. And yes, if you have liposuction and overeat later, at some point the fat cells that are left will expand to their limits and the body will produce more.

 

[Stone]

The only concern I could see with this is that aromatization occurs withing the fat cells, so more fat equals more test aromatization. Of course this can be blocked, so you'll really need to stay on top of your AI"s if you go this route.
How can you say that he's using to much gear, LiftillIdie, before he even gave amounts that he'll be using? I do think that maybe you could tone it down in your cutting phase regarding number of compounds. Remember, K.I.S.S.!
Basically the answer lies in how much fat you are comfortable carrying around. To bulk you'll have to add more fat to your 15% in order to make gains, so there's a good chance that after you're done 20% could be your new bodyfat level. However, just like Trevdog said, you'll find it that much easier to drop that fat with your newfound muscle.
If it were me, I'd take 2-4 weeks to both loose some fat and prime my system for an anabolic rebound. Your body will grow much better when it's coming from a slight depletion, like that of a fat loss diet. This way you can both lose a few % bodyfat, and increase the effectiveness of your bulker when you decide to do it.

 

[yankeesuck]

Can The Fat Grow Back?

I'm not so motivated about this to go look for a study, but this is pretty well known. Fat cells can swell a lot, but when they can't swell any more, the body still has to store the excess energy, so it does make new fat cells. I don't know when this occurs, but I strongly suspect it isn't a concern for someone at 15% bodyfat.

This is one reason why liposuction is attractive to people that have been really fat, it actually reduces the number of fat cells. And yes, if you have liposuction and overeat later, at some point the fat cells that are left will expand to their limits and the body will produce more.

I disagree with that...

CAN THE FAT GROW BACK?

Doctors believe that once the fat cells have been removed by liposuction, these same cells do not grow back. The patient's new, more balanced and pleasing silhouette should be long lasting or permanent following liposuction if proper diet and exercise are a continued part of the plan. Usually, if the patient does gain weight in the future, the change tends to be distributed proportionately over the entire body. The same applies to weight loss. Doctors believe that the total number of fat cells in the body of an adult, once established during adolescence, is fairly constant. The more fat cells there are in a specific location, the more difficult it is to reduce that area simply by dieting. Weight gain by fat formation in an adult is the actual enlargement of existing fat cells, not the creation of new ones.

However, consider the following example. When a surgeon sucks out a particular fat cell it is gone forever. A neighboring fat cell cannot divide to reproduce its neighbor in an adult human. But, unfortunately, individual fat cells, like few others in the human body, can grow to a tremendous size. This can more than make up for a missing neighbor cell that was removed by suction.

Another thing to beware of is that areas that are not treated with liposuction surrounding ones that have been treated can grow larger than the "liposuctioned" ones if "you let yourself go = do not eat properly or maintain exercise."
http://www.lipoinfo.com/chap09.htm

 

[ManOfMuscle]

He's using prop, tren (on his 3rd cycle), and halo as well as clen eca and t3 to bulk then cut at 5'10 200 15%? Seems like a bit much to me.

 

[GymLift]

"And perhaps most insidiously, fat cells most likely beget new fat cells..." (Reference http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A43258-2004Jul11.html)

"Bruce Spiegelman and his colleagues at Dana-Farber Cancer Institute have found a 'master regulator' gene that turns uncommitted cells into fat cells."
(Reference http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2002/01.17/01-fatcells.html)

"The results of our study showed that adipose tissue, which had previously been believed to be stable in cell number, has the capacity for cell proliferation according to changes in nutritional status." (This study was, however, done on mice) (Reference http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=541750&dopt=Abstract)

"A new study has found that a gene called SIRT1 can reduce the development of new fat cells and increase the metabolism or use of fat within existing fat cells." (Reference http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/07/040709085724.htm)

"The body stores new fat either by increasing the number of fat cells or by increasing the size of existing cells." (Reference http://www.drgreene.com/21_1152.html)

"It used to be believed that we were born with a certain amount of fat cells and these were more or less unchangeable. Recent research in Queensland found that this isn't so." (Reference http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/8.30/helthrpt/stories/s20847.htm)

This was just from a quick google search. I wish I had come across more study data on this, but I didn't from from quick search. However, it is likely out there.

 

[GymLift]

However, consider the following example. When a surgeon sucks out a particular fat cell it is gone forever. A neighboring fat cell cannot divide to reproduce its neighbor in an adult human. But, unfortunately, individual fat cells, like few others in the human body, can grow to a tremendous size. This can more than make up for a missing neighbor cell that was removed by suction.

Another thing to beware of is that areas that are not treated with liposuction surrounding ones that have been treated can grow larger than the "liposuctioned" ones if "you let yourself go = do not eat properly or maintain exercise."
http://www.lipoinfo.com/chap09.htm

Yes but after lipo, the proportion of adipose tissue in that area of the body will be less than it was before. The person can gain weight, but a lower _percentage_ of it will be in the lipoed area than there was prior to the lipo. Increased number of fat cells in one area of the body means increased overall fat tissue in that area of the body.

 

[moresize2]

for me aleast... cutting is a bitch ...so make sure you don't go crazy with your bf% when bulking

 

[Trevdog]

Thank you Mranak. Clearly, you have to work really hard at it to get your body to produce new fat cells, but it can and does happen. And I wasn't claiming that the fat cells can "come back". Once you suck one out, its gone forever. As I said before, it isn't likely to be a concern for someone at 15%.

That website appears to be pretty biased in favor of liposuction.