Latest results on testosterone levels over 8 months.

[winger]

Did a 13 week cycle of deca and took my last shot on 7-05-03. Here are the testosterone levels as of
7-18-03 = 300
12-20-03=75
1-26-04 = 74
3-13-04 = 126
Should be between 230-700.
Here is my question. I started taking zma on 3-1-04. Do you think the zma raised my free testosteron levels or are my levels finaly coming back?
I am 44 years old. Balls are full size now as of about 2-14-04.

 

[EZstreet]

Looks comparable to how mine looks at every thing damn near the same time fram wise(age alomost 39).
I would say any improved nutrition(zma or wtf ever) could help. But I think it's just running pretty much natural return course from my experience.

 

[winger]

Oh that hurts. Where are you now, tes levels wise?
About how many months since your last shot?
Was yours a deca only cycle?

 

[winger]

Need a little help here.

 

[frotobaggins]

A 13 week deca cycle cant be good for anyones hpta. I suggest you check with SWALE or Dr. JMW for a good PCT.

 

[winger]

Thanks, I was just hopeing for some free advice from someone who might be in that same boat.

 

[EZstreet]

Well last shot was about 8 months ago other than one testo enanthat shot a month after and I changed my mind...then finished up with about 3 months of oxandrolone.
I was on a year of EQ,and testo. and a few months of tren.eq.testo prop.

My free test keeps going up but is extremely low as well as total testo.
Without digging out the papers I think free is 145!
My DHEA is very low.

My doc keeps saying that total test is just a snapshot that doesn't mean much that it's free blah blah...same with the dhea.
I said well if thta's the case why guage it at all! I know it's free that of more significance but total is showing something isn't right.
Than I broke out my independant test results and showed him my low LH and asked what about that?
He said, have you tried cialis?
"Look doc , I can think myself into a hardon with no problem(which I have never had to be horny for), but I have a 23 y/o wife and I should be wanting to tear her ass up all the time she's a babe!"

end of conversation. He is trying at all cost to avoid and hrt issues!

He said dhea(which I know has much importance as well as a whole shitload of other hormones) may take 3 years to get back up.

He knows I know quite a bit about this shit yet still he tries to bullshit me.

Here's the thing I ahve a little more b/f % than I like to carry and a good bit of muscle i seem to be hanging on to, 5 ears ago roid free I carried around 200 lean lbs with low b/f. My goal was to get to a mean lean 300lbs. Now almost at 39 I want to keep myself preserved and normalize as much as possible my endo system. Fuck 300lbs and contest. i care more about my health. This is what I am trying to project(though my job requires me to be large). I can easily maintane the muscle I have with testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) dosages(but I know once I get started and star having veins and the size I forgot I haad busting out that will change). Yet he wants to avoid it. Shit @ 200mg/week I will grow like a weed for the first 2-3 motnhs!

He'll give me shit to trash my fucking liver,screw my kidneys,eat up my stomach,fuck with my mind...but god forbid he does anything that involves muscle!

Anhow....are you keeping your muscle post cycle? How do your cortisal levels look?

 

[winger]

Oh my gosh. That is me. I am 195 at 5'8". I have been putting on some fat. I have been doing cardio since I got off the juice. Training heavy with less sets. Only to keep strength. I am 15 pounds lighter and just about as strong. I dont get it. The mental stuff is very hard. You take a libido away and in my option that is what a man is made of. On that cycle I had super libido.
The last test I got was one week ago and it was a total testosterone test only. I have know idea what the cortisal levels are now. Thanks. I feel better. Low tes levels are a bitch.

 

[hackskii]

Hey EZstreet, DHEA is really inexpensive to buy at thehealth food store.
I feel that your levels will come back. I do have a quesion for you.
Are your nuts atrophied?
I would be willing to bet they might be. If they are then why dont you just go on another post cycle therapy (pct) and include some HCG, just a thought.
I feel that your levels will come back you are only 39.
Did you have your test levels tested prior too your cycling?
DECA is hard on your hpta and so is long cycles along with big ones. You might just have to wait it out.
I have heard of guys having pretty good results with ZMA and Tribulus.

 

[Frankie xq]

please don't waste your money on tribulus products. they don't do what they're advertised to do. zma will only raise test levels if you are ALREADY deficient in zinc and magnesium. we get enough from food and a daily multi-v.

 

[winger]

please don't waste your money on tribulus products. they don't do what they're advertised to do. zma will only raise test levels if you are ALREADY deficient in zinc and magnesium. we get enough from food and a daily multi-v.

That is what I thought in the first place but I had to ask. Well actually that is good news for me then.
I just wonder how long it takes to come back on the average when the ball are back to normal?

 

[hackskii]

What is the effect of proviron for PCT?
Will it hinder HPTA recovery?
Will it bind up free test?

 

[DJ_rockett]

Hey winger, I had a natural level of 290 at 43. I was lethargic, gained fat easy, low libido, and hard to gain muscle.

I said the hell with that and went on HRT. Doctors don't help much, But check with the mods and there are some docs here that can help out.

I've been on 100mg. test cyp a week for two years now with quarterly blood checks. I feel awesome !!!

 

[Mudge]

Thanks, I was just hopeing for some free advice from someone who might be in that same boat.

Dont let the nads shrink in the first place, read the sticky here:

http://www.healthandfitnesstalk.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=22574

It seems much more difficult to fix something that breaks especially when you get outside of your 20s, I've had pretty hard shutdown and I'm not yet 30. I was on a long ~4 month cycle starting out with fina in my stack and later moving to deca, was I shut down? Hell yes, I haven't lost any gains just yet after being off for a month but I did have a dry spell with no HCG because my guy was on vacation, that little dry spell has me still trying to get them back to 100% right now.

That is something you want to stock up on almost no matter the price.

 

[Nelson Montana]

That is what I thought in the first place but I had to ask. Well actually that is good news for me then.
I just wonder how long it takes to come back on the average when the ball are back to normal?

To find out about free test and what you can do to raise it, go to the "Articles" section here: www.proteinfactory.com and look for "Why You're Not Growing."

ZMA will not raise free test and as mentoned, will only raise total test if you're severely depleted which is pretty much impossible unless you live in Ethiopia.

 

[EZstreet]

Hey EZstreet, DHEA is really inexpensive to buy at thehealth food store.
I feel that your levels will come back. I do have a quesion for you.
Are your nuts atrophied?
I would be willing to bet they might be. If they are then why dont you just go on another post cycle therapy (pct) and include some HCG, just a thought.
I feel that your levels will come back you are only 39.
Did you have your test levels tested prior too your cycling?
DECA is hard on your hpta and so is long cycles along with big ones. You might just have to wait it out.
I have heard of guys having pretty good results with ZMA and Tribulus.

My aren't atrophied at all now. In fact they're pretty large. Which obviously is only part of the equation in restoring function. LH is low so it doesn't really make sense from that aspect either/I never really notice much size loss because it is so slow . But when they bounce back it's more noticeable that they must've lost size.

Something that's really weird is when I was 24(I believe) I did 100mg/wk/4wks on then 4 off,,then only went a couple weeks back on same dose & quit because of extreme anxiety & insomnia.
Anyhow during that time my tesitcular mass increased about a 50% bigger. It was upjohn tesosterone right from the pharmacy so fake wasn't an issue.
Now it seems like I've heard of administering a little testo to to jump start puberty. But even if my memory serves me correct on that one , in my case I already had a very strong sex drive.
No negative feedback loop? If so how and why?

My thoughts on supplementing with dhea is that it would further inhibit endo. Plus I can't come to aq conclusion on whether or not it would atually be beneficial and neither can any doc's I've spoken with(3 counting Swale's post).

 

[hackskii]

Well, I think some longevity guys take hgh, dhea and low test. I am at a slight loss to why you dont have a problem doing hrt and do have a problem with the dhea.
I think your really long cycle of a year will hold you back. I know friends that do the really long cycles and they take many months to come back. I am Wingers brother and we did the same 13 week cycle of DECA @ 600 a week. We both were really low and well screw this so I just did a cycle of test cyp to wait out the long cycle of deca. Lots of guys have problems with the deca. Now I dont mind a little crash now and then but no sex drive. Hey forget that, I have 2 girlfriends and no sex drive just freaking sucks. The problem was 5 months later the nuts kept atrophying even with no gear. So I did what any other bodybuilder would do and go on a cycle of eq and test for 8 weeks with hcg all during the cycle in small doses. At day 24 after last shot (tomorrow) I am starting this:
Day 1. 300mg clomid +60mg nolva
Day 2-8 100mg clomid +40mg nolva
Day 9-30 40mg nolvadex
I also picked up 2 bottles of post cycle therapy from protein factory. Figured what the heck maybe it might work for me.
And just pray that I get my levels back.
Oh, Winger and myself are identical twins so if he is low, I probably would have been too. We are both 44 yrs old. Been lifting 29 years and I did 3 cycles last year only.

I do think your levels will come back but it might take some time.

 

[winger]

Thanks guys for the posts. It seem that I am not alone. I did do a post cycle therapy (pct) after the cycle with no avail. I also did a second post cycle therapy (pct) with no avail many months later. Now you ask, was the hcg good was the nolva good? Heck I dont know and how would I? Hackskii gave me some of his and once again I took a few shots of hcg for the third time and that made my balls come back to full size. Actually the hcg with a low tes level make me feel like I am on the juice. I feel strong. In fact the hcg feels like I am on the sh1t. My balls are back to normal right now. So basically what I am saying is if the balls are atraphied at all you cant come back. I have a real good medical and I dont mind getting tested to show a log. My strength is still up after 8 months with low tes levels. Do I hit the gym for 2 hours heck no. With low tes levels you can overtrain very easy. I train once a week per body part and impliment hit training. I feel that if I hit a set with max intensity in a lift then why do another set? It will only be down from that last set. Why not go to another lift and save your strength. If training heavy stimulates muscle growth then why not be strong in every lift. I am a firm beleiver in basic compound movements. For some reason I feel there is no relationship with libido and strength. Please prove me wrong. The only reason why I say that is because the strength is still up and the libido is down. Oh I dont want to hear about the hrt guys on this forum because they wont give out free information because it dosn't lase their pockets. I want personal experiances like mine. Yea I have read all of swales articles and many others. Why dont they post to my thread? I am not bashing, but come on at some point you have to help. Ok I am off of my soap box.

 

[winger]

So is there any other guys out there with a similar problem after a deca cycle? What about another aas?

 

[muscleup]

I'm I reading this correctly ?...you have been clean for 8 months and you have not bounced back ?...I once did 16 weeks of test and deca...8 weeks after clomid my natty test was 400+...I would get tested again...maybe at a different doctors office