More and More Failed PCTs...

cashout

New member
I’ve discussed this topic a number of times with some of the veterans on this board and they know my position on the subject of post cycle therapy (pct).

Now, I feel compelled to address it openly because I see more and more of what I characterized as “failed post cycle therapy (pct)s.” Heck, there must be one thread every other day on someone’s unsuccessful attempt to recover. So, I perceive that there is a need for this discussion and I’ll give my viewpoint accordingly.

First, it seems that the use of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) on cycle has created, for many, a false sense of security regarding the continuous function of their testes while on cycle. Yes, 250 iu or 500 iu of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) a week while on cycle **may** keep your testes functional but most never really know, they just ASSUME. That is the first mistake I regularly see. This assumption often leads to the next mistake which is…

SERM only post cycle therapy (pct) and no, it is not enough! I know many will argue this point and say “If it is only a light cycle SERM only post cycle therapy (pct) is OK.” To that, I say, look at all the 500mg Test for 12 week cycles that have tried the SERM only approach and failed. It is not enough.
Finally, there is a general lack of accounting for the AMOUNT and HALF LIVE of the AAS used on cycle. Specificly, you don’t want to start your post cycle therapy (pct) while you still have supra-physiological levels of AAS in your system. What is a non-supra-physiological level? To keep it simple, it is the point where there is less than 200 mg of an active AAS in your system. That is not a perfect estimate but it will work for most people. By taking the time to do this math, you will greatly improve your chance at recover. So, account for the dosage and drug(s) used in planning your post cycle therapy (pct)

For long esters (cyp/ent/deconate) estimate 7 days half life

If you ran 1000 mg of test cyp/ent a week then plan to start the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) blast between 17-21 days after your last shot.

How did I get that? Simple…using the 7 day half life estimate.

@ 1000mg a week of test cyp/ent 7 days after your last shot there is 500 mg active in the blood. 14 days after the last shot, there is 250 mg active in the blood, at 21 days after the last shot, there is 125 mg active in the blood.

It doesn’t matter what the drug is it only matters what ester is attached to it. So, make sure you do the homework and look up the half life for your drugs and figure out how long it will take you to approximate “normal blood levels.”

So what is the answer? A comprehensive post cycle therapy (pct) plan that address all parts of the recovery process. Yes, that means an Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) blast, even if you use Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) on cycle! It includes 2 SERMS because they work syngerisitcly together to enhance test levels, and an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) to mitigate aromatization that will cause suppression of the HPTA through the feedback loop.

Many will say “you don’t need Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) and two SERMs, and an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) for post cycle therapy (pct). That is just overkill.”

To that I’d say, maybe, but would you rather go overboard and make sure your get HPTA recover or not go far enough and remain shutdown? That is what we are really talking about here, right, recover? So why try to skimp or take the lightest post cycle therapy (pct) possible when there is no real harm in going the whole 9 nine yards and doing everything possible to ensure recover?

Okay, so now I’ve stated my position. What do I suggest? Well, I suggest what I just did to exit from 2 years of HRT. By the way, it is very similar to the post cycle therapy (pct) that I’ve used on myself for almost 20 years and with countless others. The blood tests I’ve collected over the years support its effectiveness. In fact, I just tested at 1048 ng/dl on my last blood draw.

I’ve linked a Google Doc spreadsheet with the protocol that I found to be most effective.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...FmdHhQUEVBY0lva1BhYXMyUS1mNHJiVkE&output=html
 
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That's what i always say. Serms and ais are easy to get a hold of and are cheap. Why wouldn't you want to run as much as possible to be sure. I sure do because the longer you are shutdown the more your gonna lose. Though o found out through bloods that i recover just fine on Clomid by itself. I now run nolva, Clomid, Aromasin, and blast with hcg. I like to be sure I'm gonna be recovered so i don't lose a lot of muscle that i just worked my Ass off for with eating tons of food and working out.
 
nice post......should be a sticky...

so what you're saying is to start the blast phase once the steroid you are using is less than 200mg in your blood. Which you can get by using the half life. Instead of running it the day after your last pin??

So for your attached plan, on a normal noob cycle of 500mg a week of test e, you would not start the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) blast phase until 14 days after last pin?? If you had already used Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) though out the cycle @ 500iu a week, I assume you would continue this through that 14 days, then start the blast phase?? Man, this throws a lot of what has been preached out the window, as far as Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is concerned...... might change up my Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) use to this, instead of my usual, 10 day blast phase immediatly following my last test pin, then starting post cycle therapy (pct) 4 days later. Makes more sense to need the high dose of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) when the ester is leaving the blood, not when its still thriving.
 
Why we dont try to agree on a post cycle therapy (pct) everybody can accept and take it as example ?
SUGGESSTIONS ?
 
Omega the blast of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) will start after last test injection. Serms will start 14-21 days after test.

I agree that Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) should be used on all cycles, blasted before pct with an Aromatase inhibitor (AI), and serm therapy along with an Aromatase inhibitor (AI).

This will give you the best chances of quicker recovery. Add in vitamin E&C.
 
Omega the blast of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) will start after last test injection. Serms will start 14-21 days after test.

I agree that Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) should be used on all cycles, blasted before pct with an Aromatase inhibitor (AI), and serm therapy along with an Aromatase inhibitor (AI).

This will give you the best chances of quicker recovery. Add in vitamin E&C.

Why would you start the blast phase the day after your last test inject? (unless you were tapering)

hcg is a key component in my pct.

Cashout...that looks an awful lot like Dr. Scallys protocol ;) and you prefer letro vs aromasin?
 
I always start blasting Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) as soon as I stop injecting test, the testes sometimes need to be "shocked" basically into working. Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) basically is a synthetic LH signal but just because the signal is there, doesn't always mean the testes are ready to accept it. Blasting will help insure they are ready to accept and work when serms are added.

I prefer 14-21 days of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) before serm use. This still is effective with all the test in your body but it should be more effective as T is lowering.
 
Why would you start the blast phase the day after your last test inject? (unless you were tapering)

hcg is a key component in my pct.

Cashout...that looks an awful lot like Dr. Scallys protocol ;) and you prefer letro vs aromasin?

HCG blast DOSE NOT start until the AAS in the system have reached non-supra-physiological (i.e. Normal levels).

It dose not start the day after the last pin. While there is a high level of AAS in the system, the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) cannot fully do its job. The feedback loop will process the high levels of AAS as a que to restrict the action of the pituitary and subsequently inhibit LH and FSH until the level is normalized.

For different ester and different amounts (mgs/per week) the start time should be different.

That means that for long esters like cyp/ent/deconate run at say 1000mg per week, as in my previous example, the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) blast will not start until 18-21 days after the last shot

Yes. A-sin is a steroidal Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and has some androgenic properties. We don't want any additional androgenic drugs in our systems to potentially interrupt the restoration of the HPTA.

This type of PCT is really the work of Dan Duchaine (RIP) (Clomid and Nolv) and Dr. Fred Hatfield (HCG). Scally did run an experiment using their combined work that was later published.
 
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I always start blasting Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) as soon as I stop injecting test, the testes sometimes need to be "shocked" basically into working. Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) basically is a synthetic LH signal but just because the signal is there, doesn't always mean the testes are ready to accept it. Blasting will help insure they are ready to accept and work when serms are added.

I prefer 14-21 days of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) before serm use. This still is effective with all the test in your body but it should be more effective as T is lowering.

I was thinking that continuing your normal Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) use after your last inject would be plenty until the "blast" starts. I agree completely though, it can only help to blast Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) even if you have not reached your physiologic levels.
 
Ive never used letro. Im curious about what your estro levels are when you start it?
 
Blasting is a big shot before your pct. Crusing is a smaller dose throughout entire cycle or a long period of time.
 
I've used Letro once at a very small dose and totally crashed my e. Libido went completely south on me. Aromasin worked great for me as well as a lot of other guys. Letro is extremely easy to tank your e.
 
Please someone explain what 'BLASTING' and 'CRUISING' is so I do not feel left out any further
My opinion of this is running a cycle (blasting) and then dropping down to a testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) dose of test (cruising) instead of going into pct...then after a whatever amount of time you start a cycle again by raising the dosages back up which would be starting the "blasting" and so on
 
I think what he was trying to say is when people say an Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) blast.....what does it mean.
 
cruise would be two 500iu or 250iu shots, and blast would be the 500iu ed for a smaller period of time, opposed to the long period of time maintaining the same dose for a while longer.
 
nice post but lets face it- we're all different. some guys recover with no pct, others take strong pct drugs and never fully recover. what you say is probably true & you cant really go wrong with taking more than less, BUT it still doesnt guarantee anything. I dont care what anyone says, the truth is after many cycles on and off theres no way your system can ever be what it would be if you never cycled at all. I say this from experience of being on and off gear for nearly the past 10 years.
 
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