Needing help - First proper workout plan?

[KSpencer]

I see it now, yea your skinny but not 6% 3J is pretty good at estimates but im guessing like 12-14% something like that. (actually your probably a little lower than that maybe 10-12%)

You need eat big

Ha ye I know, trying to eat around 3300 a day! Usually have a pretty big appetite but even im starting to struggle with it!

Thanks for the estimate! I thought 6% was a bit too low myself, Im skinny but not that skinny!

 

[walker11]

yea, ima guestimate you're about 10-12% bf. and if you can, shoot for over 4000 calories a day, food should be your bigest concern right now. and i agree with what Welter is saying, find a routine you like and go with it but change it up every now and then. i personaly change up my exercises (except for squat, bench, and deadlift) evey week, use different band and/or chain wieght every week, different bars, etc.... just to keep my body guessing and prevent hitting a plateau.
its going to take more than a few months to really find what split/training type works best for you, took me 3 years just to find a template i like and i'm still finding what lifts and waves work best for me when it comes to meet prep (got off season figured out, but not the last 3 weeks before a meet lol). since you're just starting out dont be affraid to try new things, try 5 day, 4 day, and 3 day splits, upper/lower splits, DC, etc.... but above all, have fun with it.

 

[KSpencer]

Wow really over 4000? Guess I'm small enough, really do need to pack on some serious weight. Will start shooting for that tomorrow, gonna be a struggle but I reckon if I roll with a "See it eat it" attitude it should do able!

Right, yeah can see where your coming from. I'll try a 5 day split to start with then change it up the week after to a 3/4 day split and see what feels better.

You mentioned DC and after a quick google I didn't find any results for it? Would you mind explaining what that is? (Guessing it's a certain type of training just dony know what)

Cheers again for the feedback.

 

[walker11]

400 aint that bad compared to how much i eat, over 8000 lol.
here's a link that has everything you need to know about DC. but this is not a routine for newbies, you should get some more experience under your belt before jumping into something like this.
Doggcrapp Training Routines - The Doggcrapp Workout - Exercise Rest Pause

 

[walker11]

4000*

 

[KSpencer]

Ah right cheers. Ye i think ill hold off a bit on the DC training regime, although ill be sure to give it a proper bash sometime!

So far for my 5-day split what type of muscle groups should i work together? Is it better to work muscle groups that work well together? Or totally different ones?

(For instance Biceps and Triceps vs Biceps and lower back?)

If so, what should i avoid doing in terms of exercising muscle groups that may rely on others. For instance, im thinking if i do chest,shoulders etc just after a arm day, that it may negatively impact them due to them being used again the day after and not resting?

Cheers again!

PS: Im now on a "See it eat it" type diet and narrowly missing off 4000 a day, definitely starting to notice the increased energy and strength in the gym, as well as feeling a lot more solid myself!

 

[Welter]

Ah right cheers. Ye i think ill hold off a bit on the DC training regime, although ill be sure to give it a proper bash sometime!

So far for my 5-day split what type of muscle groups should i work together? Is it better to work muscle groups that work well together? Or totally different ones?

(For instance Biceps and Triceps vs Biceps and lower back?)

If so, what should i avoid doing in terms of exercising muscle groups that may rely on others. For instance, im thinking if i do chest,shoulders etc just after a arm day, that it may negatively impact them due to them being used again the day after and not resting?

Cheers again!

PS: Im now on a "See it eat it" type diet and narrowly missing off 4000 a day, definitely starting to notice the increased energy and strength in the gym, as well as feeling a lot more solid myself!

My 5 day split is

Chest
Back
Legs
Shoulders
Arms
Off
start again

I try to spread out chest and shoulders because the shoulders get hit pretty hard with chest. There are a lot of variations though

 

[walker11]

i like that split a lot, only modification i would recomend is to have 2 rest days. the reason being is because tricpes work a lot with pressing motions (ie. bench, incline, decline, etc..) so by doing triceps on an "arm day" then one day of rest and hitting triceps again while benching could lead to overtraing and possible injury. other than that, I like walter's split (even though it's a 5 day bodybuilding split lol)

 

[KSpencer]

Great thanks guys! Ill start to look for some exercises to include with them.

Quick question though, for exercises like Squats and Dead lifts that seem to work the whole body. Where exactly would i put them? Im guessing Legs and Back? Apart from them and the bench press what others are a must to include?

Ill definitely get to work on drawing up a new workout schedule! Looking forward to starting a new one next month!

Cheers again!

 

[walker11]

with the above listed program, i would put squats and dealdifts on the same day and alternate each week or bi-weekly which is done heavy. the only staples i have in my programs are GHR, squat, bench, and deadlift every week, i also wave in goodmornings, stiff leg deadlifts, romanian deadlifts, different board heights (board presses), pin pressing, pin pulls, and a few others. IMO some good bodybuilding type lifts, which i think you're looking for, would be anything with a barbell (curls, narrow grip presses, rows, shoulder press, uright rows, shrugs, etc..). i forget where, and i might get flamed for this, but i read an article a year ago in one of my exercise science classes saying that barbell movements are better then dumbbell and cables for mass. but it also important to have dumbbell and cable exercises worked in to provide some variety. I could go on for about different exercises you could do but don't have the time to keep going on right now. but i think i might have said before, compound movements are what you want, so keep it simple, keep it heavy, and keep good form.

 

[KSpencer]

Currently my 5-day split is looking like this.

Monday - Chest
Tuesday - Back
Wednesday -Legs
Thursday - Shoulders
Friday - Arms
Saturday - Rest
Sunday - Rest

However, what do i do about cardio? I currently do 2 sessions a week of high intensity interval training on Tuesdays and Thursdays. With Mon/Wed/Fri being my weight days. Do i need to include any cardio? And if so when would be the best day to?

Secondly, do i need to do any specific abs work? If so, again, when would be best?

Currently trying to pull together a list of exercises and get them all sorted into the correct days. Ideally how many should i be looking to do per day? 4-5 Different exercises at 5x5?

Thanks again! If theres any exercises you'd really recommend (Apart from the obvious ones like deadlifts and squats etc, already got them) please feel free to let me know!

Cheers again!

 

[walker11]

i think cardio on monday and friday would be the best days if you want to keep saturday and sundayas rest days.
for abbs, i do 1-2 abb exercises every other day and i like doing weighted exercises. so you could try that and see how it works for you.
in regards to how many lifts per muscle group, i only do 1-2 at a very high intensity but i use a westside template. for you, i would recomend 3 big, heavy, compound lifts per session untill you start to notice specific weak areas (this will take a while to pick up on). then as you notice weak areas supplement your workout to work on that specific area.

 

[KSpencer]

Right, so would i do my cardio before or after my weight workout? (Or even instead of?)

Abs sounds easy enough, but what do you mean by weighted exercises? Like a sit-up with a 10kg plate on or something?

Right, so 3 big heavy compound lifts per muscle group. Would that still be sticking with the 5x5 method of sets/reps?

Ill get looking for a good list now! Discovering some fairly good new lifts such as the Goodmornings you suggest, looks brutal though!

Thanks again!

 

[Welter]

Right, so would i do my cardio before or after my weight workout? (Or even instead of?)

Abs sounds easy enough, but what do you mean by weighted exercises? Like a sit-up with a 10kg plate on or something?

Right, so 3 big heavy compound lifts per muscle group. Would that still be sticking with the 5x5 method of sets/reps?

Ill get looking for a good list now! Discovering some fairly good new lifts such as the Goodmornings you suggest, looks brutal though!

Thanks again!

I would suggest empty stomach cardio in the morning before breakfast. If thats not an option then definitely post workout.

There are two schools of thought on abs, work them daily (light) or work them hard once a week. I do both, i may do them every day for 6 weeks then go once a week for 6 weeks. I find when i really want to lean down doing them light every day seems to be more effective. They both work though.

Good mornings are great exercises but dont try to be a hero, go light or you risk seriously fucking up your lower back. SLDL are great. I just posted this in another thread as well Bulgarian split squats are awesome too for hitting the hams and glutes. The reason people dont do them more often is because they are hard as shit but you'll get enormous satisfaction the next few days when it hurts to sit down or try to get out of a chair.

 

[KSpencer]

Ah thanks Welter! Ill try out the daily but light to begin with, as I've never really worked my abs properly before and wouldn't want to over strain them.

Ah yeah, Im one of those people that loves that feeling the day after!

However, a quick question. Would I do them both on the same day? So say SLDL and normal ones? Or just do one type of them? Ill be sure to add them in!

(Noob question here, But where would i put dead lifts? Im guessing back?)

Cheers again guys! New workout regime is really shaping up!

PS: As far as the 5x5 routine goes, I've been looking into it and it looks like I've been doing it wrong. What most people suggest is;

Low weight 1x5
Medium weight 1x5
Work set 5x5

Is that right? Or have i just got the wrong end of the stick again? Cheers!

 

[walker11]

im not real familiar with 5x5 so i'm going to let somebody else get back to you on that. but with SLDLs and deadlifts, you have back and then legs the next day, so IMO you should deadlift and do SLDLs on leg day. the reason behind this is because a deadlift is more or less a reverse squat, so squatting and dealdifting work very similar muscle groups. and SLDLs will really get at your hamstrings, so do those on leg day too. i think a goodleg day for you would be squats, deadlifts (are you pulling sumo or convential?), and rotate in SLDL, GHR (glute ham raise), lunges, etc.......
and in regards to weighted abbs, you can do weighted crunches, abb pull downs, decline crunches, and pretty much any other variation of abb work just with weight added.

 

[KSpencer]

Thanks walker! As far as dead lifts go im just doing the conventional one, nothing fancy.

Another newbie question for supplements. Im currently using Creatine too, (Brutal Alchemy i think its called) really good stuff and can definitely see results from it.

However, the bottle recommends 3 before and 3 after a workout, i only currently take 2, would that extra one really make a difference?
Also, do i take them all the time on just on workout days? (Iv heard some guys say they take 3/3 on work days and only 2 on rest days?)

Thanks again!

 

[Welter]

Thanks walker! As far as dead lifts go im just doing the conventional one, nothing fancy.

Another newbie question for supplements. Im currently using Creatine too, (Brutal Alchemy i think its called) really good stuff and can definitely see results from it.

However, the bottle recommends 3 before and 3 after a workout, i only currently take 2, would that extra one really make a difference?
Also, do i take them all the time on just on workout days? (Iv heard some guys say they take 3/3 on work days and only 2 on rest days?)

Thanks again!

Ask 5 people and you'll get 5 different answers. I do deads during back days. I think it really depends on how hard you go. Squats and deads both hit the CNS pretty hard and it's hard IMO to do both balls to the wall in the same workout but I know some fucking huge guys that are much stronger than me and they do them together.

Dunno if going higher on the creatine will help or not. Try it and see, it's pretty hard on my kidneys so I don't do much creatine but some love it.

 

[walker11]

Welter is spot on with the deads question. i know guys who pull and squat heavy on the same day, pull one day then squat another, and switch between squats and deads every week. i pull and squat twice a week, one day i squat heavy then do dynamic deads, then about 72 hours later pull heavy then do dynamic squats (got the idea from Lou Simmons), and that was working wonders for me pre-injury and i plan on going back to once im able to squat again. just gota try some different combinatiosn and see what works for you, you could also try rack pulls instead of full range of motion deads if you're going to split up squats and deads.

 

[KSpencer]

A work on progress, but for my chest day im struggling to find other exercises are that "Big, Compound Movements"

So far i have, Bench Press (Decline, Incline & Flat Bench) Pushups and someone seemed to suggest Dips (Although i thought they were more shoulders and arms?)

Apart from that im struggling, so any tips would be great cheers! Rest of it is starting to really shape up now! Should be able to start it the week after next.

Which also brings me onto another question, should i take next week off to get as near to fully rested as possible before starting the new routine? So that i can really PUSH it (My hams have been killing me all week!)

Cheers again!