New Lab Results, Great Numbers, Still feeling Pre-TRT

[Waterpolo820]

Quick recap -
I'm 22 years old, tried a restart several times, however with no winning.
Started Test injections about 4 months ago (Test inj. with HCG)

For about 2 months now I've had my blood dialed in to "optimal". My current protocol is 140mg Test Cyp 2/Week, .25mg Adex 2/week, HCG 350ui EOD

Here are my latest labs:
TT: 1088 (350-1197)
Free T: 29.9 (9.3-26.5) FLAG HIGH
Estridol: 28.5 (7.6-42.6)
TSH: 1.8 (.3-3.0) [Previous three tests for TSH were 2.5-2.7]
T4: 7.4 (4.5-12.0)
T3: 108 (71-180)
RT3: 14.5 (9.2-24.1)
DHEA: 490 (31-701)
DHEA-S: 549 (164-530) FLAG HIGH
Progesterone: 1.1 (.2-1.4)


My previous tests showed that my SHBG was in range, however on the low side. And like I said above my TSH was always in the 2.5-2.7 range, with my latest one a month ago being 2.7, is there anything to worry about with a drop off like that?

I'm getting pretty frustrated because I still feel the same, as I did two months ago and like I did 4 months ago. I did a sleep test and I do not have sleep apnea, however I still cannot get a full nights sleep and still wake up tired and groggy. Mental fog, concentration, and all the other 123's of Low T are still present.

I'm seeing a new Dr. left and right and they all know less than the one before! I'm willing to try practically anything at this point... I was looking for input on some new things to try or techniques, anything really.

 

[Megatron28]

Did you get the regular or sensitive estradiol assay. If it was the regular one, your estradiol could possibly be too low. Get the sensitive assay of you didn't.

 

[Harot]

What is your nutrition? Do you take enough minerals? Do you exercise? All these play a role as well...

 

[Waterpolo820]

Did you get the regular or sensitive estradiol assay. If it was the regular one, your estradiol could possibly be too low. Get the sensitive assay of you didn't.

Estridol Sensitive

What is your nutrition? Do you take enough minerals? Do you exercise? All these play a role as well...

Eat 5-6 meals a day, all balanced with fats, proteins, carbs, etc. And exercising 4-5 days a week, although for the past week and a half I dropped it to 1-2 times because of school.

 

[Megatron28]

Maybe check your SHBG to see if it is really low. Some guys don't respond well when it is too low.

I also noticed that you are taking hCG EOD. Most guys don't do it that frequently. I don't use it myself, but many guys here seem to say that twice a week is more optimal (I think).

 

[halfwit]

Vitamin D? Stress can also wreck havoc on your adrenal system, have you had your cortisol checked?

I only mention stress as I too am a student and having to deal with the lovely process of finals week.

 

[Spunkey71]

Maybe check your SHBG to see if it is really low. Some guys don't respond well when it is too low.

I also noticed that you are taking hCG EOD. Most guys don't do it that frequently. I don't use it myself, but many guys here seem to say that twice a week is more optimal (I think).

Megatron,

Can you elaborate on SHBC being really low? What is considered really low and what is considered low but still okay? How can one go about raising their SHBC if it is on the low side?

 

[jomamma007]

Estridol Sensitive



The labs you posted with the reference range 7.6-42.6 is not the LabCorp sensitive panel. That is the regular assay.
The sensitive panels range is 3-70. Re-test, you're probably killing your estrogen.

Personally I'd drop the dosage to 100mgs per week split into two injections and drop the AI altogether and re-test in a month using the estradiol sensitive panel.

 

[Megatron28]

Estridol Sensitive



The labs you posted with the reference range 7.6-42.6 is not the LabCorp sensitive panel. That is the regular assay.
The sensitive panels range is 3-70. Re-test, you're probably killing your estrogen.

Personally I'd drop the dosage to 100mgs per week split into two injections and drop the AI altogether and re-test in a month using the estradiol sensitive panel.

Great observation!

 

[methos0123]

Personally I'd drop the dosage to 100mgs per week split into two injections and drop the AI altogether and re-test in a month using the estradiol sensitive panel.[/QUOTE]

This is a good idea!

I think too many people start out at too high of a dosage...I did it to.

There's a HUGE difference in treatment with twice a week vs once a week and god forbid longer than a week.

 

[jomamma007]

[/QUOTE]This is a good idea!

I think too many people start out at too high of a dosage...I did it to.

There's a HUGE difference in treatment with twice a week vs once a week and god forbid longer than a week.[/QUOTE]

Seriously!!! I see a few guys just posting today and yesterday all thinking they need to be at the top of the range or above it to feel good. 200mgs a week is the top end of standard TRT.
Start Slow Go Slow. Most guys will feel better avoiding an ai, even if there test levels are a little lower. That way you can be consistent. It's not awesome erections today, ED tomorrow. I'd rather be able to have a decent one everyday!

You can always up your dosage later. IMO I think most guys should aim for an estradiol sensitive of 25-30 and then stick with whatever test dosage that puts them there. Obese people are an exception, and usually require an AI regardless.

I can't feel a difference with a free test of 20 vs 25, but an estradiol sensitive of 20 vs 25 for me is night and day.

Just my 2cents

 

[Waterpolo820]

Maybe check your SHBG to see if it is really low. Some guys don't respond well when it is too low.

I also noticed that you are taking hCG EOD. Most guys don't do it that frequently. I don't use it myself, but many guys here seem to say that twice a week is more optimal (I think).

SHBG on my last check was 14 I believe, I have to recheck my labs as I don;t have them with me right now - But it was lower on the range

 

[Waterpolo820]

Vitamin D? Stress can also wreck havoc on your adrenal system, have you had your cortisol checked?

I only mention stress as I too am a student and having to deal with the lovely process of finals week.

I am taking Vitamin D, 50,000iu 2xweek as it was low before, but its in range again right now; and Cortisol cam back normal, but it does go over sometimes because of school

 

[Waterpolo820]

Estridol Sensitive



The labs you posted with the reference range 7.6-42.6 is not the LabCorp sensitive panel. That is the regular assay.
The sensitive panels range is 3-70. Re-test, you're probably killing your estrogen.

Personally I'd drop the dosage to 100mgs per week split into two injections and drop the AI altogether and re-test in a month using the estradiol sensitive panel.

Thanks for pointing that out! I've told my Dr to order the sensitive and even gave them the lab test number, but I guess this really teaches you to not trust Drs.... I'll have it retested!

And I started at 100mgs at 2x/week - my test levels were at 700, so i bumped up the dosage a little and it got me to 1000, I can still back it off but I feel comfortable with it where it is right now

 

[jomamma007]

Thanks for pointing that out! I've told my Dr to order the sensitive and even gave them the lab test number, but I guess this really teaches you to not trust Drs.... I'll have it retested!

And I started at 100mgs at 2x/week - my test levels were at 700, so i bumped up the dosage a little and it got me to 1000, I can still back it off but I feel comfortable with it where it is right now

Well you might need an AI at the higher dosage, that's all.
I'd start at the lower dose and see where your estradiol sensitive falls then titrate up from there.

 

[JOWS7]

Two things I wanted to point out:

1. You sound just like me. I had optimal TT, FT and E2 numbers but still felt no different on TRT. I decided to check my DHT levels and it was flagged low on TRT. (DHT: 20 Range: 30-85). There might be a chance you are a poor DHT converter on shots and would benefit on creams/gels.

Check out my history:
Going to try TRT again . . . .

Or do a search for "JOWS7" or "JOWS6". Currently I am on day 4 or 5 on Axiron + AI.

2. It looks like you have subclinical hypothyroidism with an elevated TSH value of 2.5-2.7. Unfortunately, the range was derived from a tainted pool of those with subclinical hypothyroidism. People who had values above around 2.0 later developed Hypothyroidism or suffered from hypothyroid symptoms. Ideally, your TSH value should be < 1.0. Look into it. However, tackle one thing first. It will become over-whelming correcting more than one parameter at once. Look into your DHT numbers and go from there.

Good Luck.

 

[corvettels3]

I did a sleep test and I do not have sleep apnea, however I still cannot get a full nights sleep and still wake up tired and groggy. Mental fog, concentration, and all the other 123's of Low T are still present.

Start here.. The days I do not sleep well (4hrs or less) I'm a complete mess. Head fog, zero concentration, anxiety, and dizziness. The days I do sleep well I fell like a million bucks. Get that sleep brother.

 

[newtohrt]

I have low SHBG and I don't feel anything from TRT other than a slight boost in overall energy. For guys that respond quite dramatically to testosterone it is naturally hard to imagine that it does not work like that for everyone, but I can attest to the fact that it does not. My SHBG has been as low as 7.2 on a scale of 16.5 - 55.9 nmol/L. Some guys have low SHBG because they are diabetic or pre-diabetic, or have fatty liver disease, but in my case I seem to be genetically low. I have done a TON of research on this and there is no good way to raise it a significant amount, unless one is, say diabetic, and then loses a ton of weight and gets their glucose under control, their SHBG might go up a bit.