Nolva vs. Clomid for PCT

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macro said:
Clomid is superior in every way in restoring the HPGA.

Nolva appears to be only effective if you are not heavily suppressed, it does not stimulate LH release but mainly acts as priming agent for response to GnRH. Also it upregulates the PgR (this is via estrogenic as well as theorized non-genomic action) which can exacerbate gyno issues when progestins are involved. Nolva is commonly linked to post cycle gyno for this reason.

tamoxifen upregulates inhibin as well.

this is not to say that some people cannot use nolva with positive results, merely that both the clinical and anecdotal evidence are against it for use among the general population.

however that being said a lot is not known about the Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) suppressed state (which has a number of actors of which E is primary but certainly not alone).
Click to expand...

WHat do you think about using clomid and nolvadex combined?
 
macro said:
Clomid is superior in every way in restoring the HPGA.

Nolva appears to be only effective if you are not heavily suppressed, it does not stimulate LH release but mainly acts as priming agent for response to GnRH. Also it upregulates the PgR (this is via estrogenic as well as theorized non-genomic action) which can exacerbate gyno issues when progestins are involved. Nolva is commonly linked to post cycle gyno for this reason.

tamoxifen upregulates inhibin as well.

this is not to say that some people cannot use nolva with positive results, merely that both the clinical and anecdotal evidence are against it for use among the general population.

however that being said a lot is not known about the Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) suppressed state (which has a number of actors of which E is primary but certainly not alone).
Click to expand...

Tamoxifen has been shown to be quite effective for elevating gonadotropins. I have used it many times for this purpose, when I had to. I do prefer Clomid, though, UNLESS THERE ARE UNTOWARD SIDE EFFECTS (which we don't see with tamoxifen). In fact, as Dr. Shippen and I have independently found, just 25mg QD of Clomid is a very effective dose for restoring the HPTA.

Have you seen any studies with respect to Clomid and PR regulation?

Some claim tamoxifen is taxonimized incorrectly as a SERM, that it is a pure estrogen antagonist. I'm still thinking about that one. But its effects with respect to PR regulation is an important consideration there.
 
Titre du document / Document title
Inhibin and steroid responses to testicular stimulation in normal men
Auteur(s) / Author(s)
COMHAIRE F. H. (1) ; ROMBAUTS L. ; VEREECKEN A. (1) ; VERHOEVEN G. ;
Affiliation(s) du ou des auteurs / Author(s) Affiliation(s)
(1) Leuven inst. fertility technologies, Leuven, BELGIQUE

Résumé / Abstract
Static measurements of immunoreactive inhibin have proved to be of little relevance in the diagnosis of testicular disorders. To explore whether a dynamic evaluation of inhibin secretion might yield a more useful parameter of testicular function we compared the responses of inhibin with steroids to i.v. injections of pure follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH ; 300 IU) or human chorionic gonadotrophin (HCG ; 1500 IU) and oral administration of the antioestrogen Tamoxifen (20 mg/day for 7 days) in four normal fertile men. Blood was aspirated between 1 and 72 h after the injections and daily during Tamoxifen intake. Four controls were injected with physiological saline solution. An additional four men were injected with pure FSH, and blood was taken after 24, 48 and 72 h. Injection of FSH was accompanied by nycthemeral variations of testosterone comparable with those observed in the controls. The concentration of inhibin showed similar nycthemeral variations but a significant increase was observed in all eight cases at 12 noon on days 2 and 3 after FSH injection. HCG injection resulted in the expected biphasic response of testosterone. Inhibin displayed a pronounced increase 18 h after injection but the delayed response after 48 and 72h was not observed. Tamoxifen intake increased testosterone but not inhibin, and caused a moderate and temporary increase of luteinizing hormone and FSH. It was concluded that primary stimulation both of Leydig cells by HCG and Sertoli cells by FSH increase circulating inhibin. Comparison with the testosterone response suggests that the inhibin peak 18 h after HCG administration may reflect Leydig cell function, and that the delayed response 48 and 72 h after FSH administration can be used as a parameter of Sertoli cell function.
Revue / Journal Title
Human reproduction (Hum. reprod.) ISSN 0268-1161 CODEN HUREEE
Source / Source
1995, vol. 10, no7, pp. 1740-1744 (25 ref.)

Let's be careful about extrapolating unwarranted conclusions for status post AAS-use adult men based upon studies conducted on normal, fertile men.
 
d-bol then winni/could it promote any hair loss?

If I just do a cycle of d-bol then one of winni. I think I will be where I want! I am 33 and already lost enough hair! Will it accelerate any hair loss.??
 
SWALE said:
I never saw the point in it.
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I noticed in alot of HPTA reversal studies they use both. IMO the clomid is often as you said dosed to high.

WOuld you be opposed though to clomid and nbolva being used at the same time even if there is no point say at 50/20 repectively?
 
 
roccodart440 said:
I noticed in alot of HPTA reversal studies they use both. IMO the clomid is often as you said dosed to high.

WOuld you be opposed though to clomid and nbolva being used at the same time even if there is no point say at 50/20 repectively?
Click to expand...

Your right on target rocco. I use clomid and nolva for post cycle therapy (pct) at about those exact dosages.
Clomid has to be dosed too high to to the job all by itself.

I just bought a liquid clomid and nolva mix. I can't remember off the top of my head the dosage. I thinks its 50/30.

I have armidex, nolva, and clomid/nolva mix. They all serve their purpose.
 
so what if u were also using aromasin? would 20mg aromasin be good, and then should clomid and novla both be added or either clomid or novla.
 
IF I were to use aromasin in post cycle therapy (pct) i'd use 12.5 mg ED for the 1st couple weeks and then go to just nolva and clomid for the rest.
 
WHat about Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) at 500 ius every 4th or 5th day during the cycle! also 20 mgs of nolva a day! post cycle therapy (pct) 2 weeks after last test E or Test C shot, starting with clomid and nolva 150-100-50 and stick with nolva for 20mg a day!
 
bachar said:
WHat about Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) at 500 ius every 4th or 5th day during the cycle! also 20 mgs of nolva a day! post cycle therapy (pct) 2 weeks after last test E or Test C shot, starting with clomid and nolva 150-100-50 and stick with nolva for 20mg a day!
Click to expand...

you can take Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) in small amounts during your cycle to help maintain testicular function..this can be a problem only if your running a long cycle...lt can be a problem due to the possibility of desentization of the Leydig cells..thats the last thing you want to do....you want your own LH production to keep the testicles producing test..
 
JMEALS thx for ur reply man! do u think a 12 weeks cycles should be ok with Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG)? should i take some proviron or clomid at 20 mgs a day during that cycle???
 
bachar said:
JMEALS thx for ur reply man! do u think a 12 weeks cycles should be ok with Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG)? should i take some proviron or clomid at 20 mgs a day during that cycle???
Click to expand...

hey bro 12 weeks is fine with HCG..it does aromatize pretty heavily,so a anti estrogen is definitly reccomended if your planning on taking more than 500iu EOD....save the clomid for pct...not crazy about proviron..IMO its blocking action at the steroid receptor sites outweighs its usefullness..just keep nolv on hand in case of gyno symptoms...
 
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