Not sure if test is bunk or not

[Havasu]

Get Arimidex and use it. Saying you don't want to take an AI because you don't want to hurt your gains is ridiculous, and it probably makes many people on this board want to bang their head (or your head) against a wall repeatedly.

Get Clomid. Use Clomid and Nolva for your PCT. You should have some HCG to run along with your cycle, at the very least you should run it during the end of your cycle while you're waiting for the test to clear your system before starting PCT, but it is recommended to take it throughout the entire cycle to prevent testicular atrophy, keep up your sperm count, etc. If you have a lot of questions about what I just said, you shouldn't have even started your cycle yet. I'm fairly new as well to all of this, but I've done my research enough to learn about those things before I touched any gear.

I know everything seems fine, but you can SERIOUSLY, and PERMANENTLY fuck yourself up if you don't take every precaution.

 

[tonyyayo14]

labmax ur gear bro

 

[matrix8]

dude....when it comes to esters, it IS one size fits all. Esters have a half life...enanthate is 5-7 days, cyp is slightly longer. This does not vary from person to person. this is a constant. it takes a certain amount of time for the hormone to be released from the ester and become active. it takes the same amount of time no matter who you are so to claim that you're seeing gains at 8 days is not possible. there is not enough active hormone in your body to put you at supraphysiologocal levels yet. theres no way it takes the average person 4-6 weeks to see results on test e or c and it takes you 8 days.

Sorry, but still disagree guys. I notice physical differences (probably just water retention) and so forth starting after my 3rd shots. Hence my interest in this topic and why others don't . And the thought of waiting 6 weeks as u suggest to see any results as u say just makes me feel sad for someone like that and hopefully that's not your experience.
Now , u can speak for yourself. But I'm afraid to say that you're just projecting yur experiences onto someone else's experience and that sounds kinda silly. What Im hearing is,"I don't notice anything for over a month therefore I won't accept that anyone else has it better than me!!!!!" It's kinda petty to b honest. Sorry , no offence.

And no, hormones are most definitely NOT a one size fits all by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[matrix8]

And I don't wanna sound superficial because this picture actually is not very good. But this avatar pic of me here was taken 5 weeks after starting test. And that was after 14 months of not even going to a gym due to a back injury and only having 5 weeks of training under my belt after the layoff before starting the test.
Sorry if I ruffled some feathers but u can't say someone doesn't experience what they experience because it doesn't jive with something u read somewhere.

 

[halfwit]

I'm getting the feeling that it doesn't matter what folks say to you, apparently the world is flat and the center of the solar system because that is your observation.

There is a TREMENDOUS difference between 'feeling' an effect, and there being a measurable clinical difference. Hormone dosages are indeed not a one-size-fits-all substance as you mentioned, but unless you have a genetic mutation that changes how not only an ester (I have a feeling you don't understand what they are, nor how they work) is cleaved, but also how quickly your CYP3A4 system functions - you're just like everyone else.

I'm sorry that you're not getting this. I assure you that you're not the special snowflake you apparently think you are in this regard. Just be happy that you have such a powerful psychosomatic connection.

 

[matrix8]

I'm getting the feeling that it doesn't matter what folks say to you, apparently the world is flat and the center of the solar system because that is your observation.

There is a TREMENDOUS difference between 'feeling' an effect, and there being a measurable clinical difference. Hormone dosages are indeed not a one-size-fits-all substance as you mentioned, but unless you have a genetic mutation that changes how not only an ester (I have a feeling you don't understand what they are, nor how they work) is cleaved, but also how quickly your CYP3A4 system functions - you're just like everyone else.

I'm sorry that you're not getting this. I assure you that you're not the special snowflake you apparently think you are in this regard. Just be happy that you have such a powerful psychosomatic connection.

Again, there's no way some dude who spends 20 hrs /day on the internet is gonna tell me they know what my experiences are based on something they read. Especially if Ive never even met them. I'm sorry if it makes u feel inadequate or whatever u feel but that's your projection onto someone else.
Just take a big breath look in the mirror and tell yourself you're special too lol and read some more that makes u feel that you know what everyone else experiences because thats what matches what u read and I'm sure you'll get over it.

I just started this line of interest to try to understand the real question which is why some people people seem to notice zero effects for a month, for example, because that just seems not right or sad.
If u don't understand or accept what someone else experiences then move not another thread that makes u feel more confident in what you've read. You'll be happier that way.

 

[halfwit]

Again, there's no way some dude who spends 20 hrs /day on the internet is gonna tell me they know what my experiences are based on something they read. Especially if Ive never even met them. I'm sorry if it makes u feel inadequate or whatever u feel but that's your projection onto someone else.
Just take a big breath look in the mirror and tell yourself you're special too lol and read some more that makes u feel that you know what everyone else experiences because thats what matches what u read and I'm sure you'll get over it.

I just started this line of interest to try to understand the real question which is why some people people seem to notice zero effects for a month, for example, because that just seems not right or sad.
If u don't understand or accept what someone else experiences then move not another thread that makes u feel more confident in what you've read. You'll be happier that way.

Apparently I'm not only genetically inferior, but I somehow spend 20 hours on the internet while squeezing in 3 hours a day in the gym and pursuing a master's degree.

Well, I'm glad to see that I was right in my assessment of the situation: You're one of those folks that likes to plug their fingers in their ears, cover their eyes and keep believing that they know better than 300 years of cumulative scientific knowledge. (The medicine and the mathematical models used here are at least that old)

I've spent enough time in a necroed thread trying to enlighten someone that clearly wants to resort to attacks instead of accepting knowledge which can be EASILY gained from a few cursory Google searches. Enjoy wondering about the 'magic' that is called the half-life, and how this works in conjunction with the human metabolic-elimination process. Because I'm done here with you.

I think I'll be happier this way.

 

[matrix8]

Apparently I'm not only genetically inferior, but I somehow spend 20 hours on the internet while squeezing in 3 hours a day in the gym and pursuing a master's degree.

Well, I'm glad to see that I was right in my assessment of the situation: You're one of those folks that likes to plug their fingers in their ears, cover their eyes and keep believing that they know better than 300 years of cumulative scientific knowledge. (The medicine and the mathematical models used here are at least that old)

I've spent enough time in a necroed thread trying to enlighten someone that clearly wants to resort to attacks instead of accepting knowledge which can be EASILY gained from a few cursory Google searches. Enjoy wondering about the 'magic' that is called the half-life, and how this works in conjunction with the human metabolic-elimination process. Because I'm done here with you.

I think I'll be happier this way.

Haha! You are clearly just one of those guys who are like a high school girl on here having a sissy fit because someone doesn't wanna believe that u know better than them because u think that this is your little playground on the internet and others have to believe everything u say. Put on your panties and Go cry some more in a puddle little girl

 

[Teutonic]

Matrix ur obviously not short of argumentative energyand that is cool. Differencesin people s reaction s are science.
I ll let this go awhile but if someone disagrees with you do NOT start popping off to respected knowledgeable members with personal attacks..
U look good. U sound like u r genetically gifted in the physical department and that s A BLESSING.

Let s see how you were raised and see how you take--

Keep it civil. Stop with the superiority complex. Ur just another one of us...augmenting hormones .....but you are venting frustrations w un called for accusations and disrespectful dialogue.

Stop
(1)

 

[3J]

Haha! You are clearly just one of those guys who are like a high school girl on here having a sissy fit because someone doesn't wanna believe that u know better than them because u think that this is your little playground on the internet and others have to believe everything u say. Put on your panties and Go cry some more in a puddle little girl

I'm guessing you don't know halfwit and his background... Lol

The man speaks the truth.. And he speaks from scientific backing... And all of us like him here alot too.. Including many mods.. Like myself..


So take it easy on the trash talk... OK? Enjoy ology

 

[Megatron28]

There is a possible answer that explains how Matrix8 responds so much faster to Test E than your average person. It may in fact be that he is extremely hypogonadal. If his TT is only 100ng/dl for example, then he may in fact feel and notice the effects of a cycle much faster than the average person. And of course, one should never discount the power of the brain to provide psychosomatic reactions.

 

[matrix8]

Listen, I don't have an issue with anybody giving their opinion on a question I pose. In fact this is great . But if someone says that because of something they read somewhere and that they wanna propagate their belief and say that my experience is untrue than that's more of their ego dictating what they want to believe(that everyone reacts to medications the same way u do) instead of what someone 1/2 way across the world says to be true. It's rude and the equivalent of calling someone a liar. If someone called u a liar to your face I would hope u would give him a slap across the mouth and ask him to repeat himself.
I'm new to this site but am always generally very impressed with this everyone on this thread's posts/replies. Very helpful and very well spoken. I know that I have personally been helped by everyone above's posts.

My query was:"Why do some people seem to notice the beginning effects of AAS soon like myself while others seem to say their gear is bunk even 4-5 weeks after starting??"
The way I interpreted the responses was, "Well I don't notice effects so soon so what you are saying is a lie because we ALL experience effects at the same time/rate. That's science. That's the way meds work."(which couldn't be further from the truth)

But I understand that many of the senior members on this time have a lot of their ego's invested. And I guess I just got tired of reading some posts which you have all seen where people have valid inquiries and longstanding members basically chase or bully some of these inquiring minds away from their playground.
I DO need to watch my temper though . I'm traveling south America scuba diving and moto crossing the mountains for a year and my fuse is way to short to deal with how they don't follow traffic rules down here.

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

Here's the reason why you have mods & vets disagreeing with you:

What halfwit told you was proven, scientific FACT.
What your stating is how you "feel" with no bloodwork or any other solid data to back you up.

Again, what halfwit said was not his "opinion" or "experience" or "belief" it was scientifically proven FACT.
The reason he got frustrated with you is because he cannot understand, and neither can I, why a guy with a reasonable mind continues to argue with facts based on feelings & experience.

If you can't see why mods & vets are against you based on what I said, then there is really no hope for you.
There is only 1 way for you to prove your experience and that is bloodwork - otherwise your fighting a losing battle dude.

 

[matrix8]

There is a possible answer that explains how Matrix8 responds so much faster to Test E than your average person. It may in fact be that he is extremely hypogonadal. If his TT is only 100ng/dl for example, then he may in fact feel and notice the effects of a cycle much faster than the average person. And of course, one should never discount the power of the brain to provide psychosomatic reactions.

I thought of this hypogonadal idea as well but discounted it previously because about 14 mths prior to my recent cycle I had BW that showed my test a little on the low side but not within TRT. Mind u I had no idea really how to fully understand my BW and from my experience my family doctors don't have a clue about something like this. So now I'm thinking there could have been an issue with something like free test, E2 or SHBG...etc and I would not have caught it. I don't fully understand the psychosomatic reaction and how that can be so effective to the point where my friends notice it as well so soon and my libido starts to ramp up but that can definitely be a part of the equation.

Anyways, this was the kind of response I was looking for to help stimulate my mind into looking into something I wasn't considering .

I do feel fortunate and my friends always comment that I soak up gear better than anyone they know. But I still wanted to learn why this was the case. Thanks

 

[matrix8]

Here's the reason why you have mods & vets disagreeing with you:

What halfwit told you was proven, scientific FACT.
What your stating is how you "feel" with no bloodwork or any other solid data to back you up.

Again, what halfwit said was not his "opinion" or "experience" or "belief" it was scientifically proven FACT.
The reason he got frustrated with you is because he cannot understand, and neither can I, why a guy with a reasonable mind continues to argue with facts based on feelings & experience.

If you can't see why mods & vets are against you based on what I said, then there is really no hope for you.
There is only 1 way for you to prove your experience and that is bloodwork - otherwise your fighting a losing battle dude.

"Mrrippedzilla" :You seem to be someone who believes everything u read online. You're luck though. That way u don't have the burden of trying to think for yourself. Just quote others and parrot,"fact" or "science"
Must be nice. I envy u

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

I'm a coach to bodybuilders, with a masters in nutrition & a family of endocronologists.
That means I combine scientific studies with real life experiences.

I'm also not as nice as halfwit - stop acting like a little bitch who's feelings have been hurt.
On the internet the intelligent always win, that means little playground bullies like you are always made to look like the idiots you really are.

Yes how stupid of me to quote STUDIES, how wrong of me to disagree with bros and their feelings.
I have more knowledge relating to this community then you ever will so please keep abusing me - I'll enjoy making you look like a complete retard

 

[Megatron28]

Matrix: you need to stop attacking people personally. It is fine to disagree and have a spirited discussion. But rather than go after people personally, please focus on the facts. Post some studies or share your personal factual evidence. This board is called 'Ology because it is about understanding how AAS works. The science behind it. But above all, keep this professional.

 

[SJC]

i'm a coach to bodybuilders, with a masters in nutrition & a family of endocronologists.
That means i combine scientific studies with real life experiences.

I'm also not as nice as halfwit - stop acting like a little bitch who's feelings have been hurt.
On the internet the intelligent always win, that means little playground bullies like you are always made to look like the idiots you really are.

Yes how stupid of me to quote studies, how wrong of me to disagree with bros and their feelings.
I have more knowledge relating to this community then you ever will so please keep abusing me - i'll enjoy making you look like a complete retard

ha ha

 

[3J]

Rip.. Matrix... Both of you pit an end to this...

This isn't a place to bite each others heads off..

You guys wanna go at it do it in the general chat forum where we can all be throughly entertained...


Quoting scientific fact is a good way of showing truth.... I do agree that scientific fact is only a best guess and often refuted by new studies... Yet it's the best thing we have on paper... I dont agree with every scientific study that I read... But i do put it into strong consideration and don't bite people's heads off for referencing to it

 

[matrix8]

I'm a coach to bodybuilders, with a masters in nutrition & a family of endocronologists.
That means I combine scientific studies with real life experiences.

I'm also not as nice as halfwit - stop acting like a little bitch who's feelings have been hurt.
On the internet the intelligent always win, that means little playground bullies like you are always made to look like the idiots you really are.

Yes how stupid of me to quote STUDIES, how wrong of me to disagree with bros and their feelings.
I have more knowledge relating to this community then you ever will so please keep abusing me - I'll enjoy making you look like a complete retard

Hahaha!! Is This is what constitutes a spirited discussion and non personal??? Calling someone "Retard" "Idiot" "Bitch" ??? C'mon, am I reading this correctly? Those don't sound very nice

Yes, that's what the internet is known for...."the intelligent always win" My mistake....lol
I hope u feel more confident now joining someone else's thread with zero insightful input so far to tell them how much smarter u think u are then them. But please don't stop insulting me to prove your point about...... being abusive?? You're not gonna post your resume next and quote your high school calculus grades are u? cuz I don't think I could bare that....lol

My whole point of posing a question was to help more fully understand my experiences with AAS. Didn't realize it would be met with such enthusiastic defensiveness because it didn't jive with others' predetermined views. Reminds me of that movie "Mean Girls" a few years back...

But to move onto a more professional tip..... I did get a helpful response from megatron , as usual, so it was worth the fun of wading through all the other less relevant replies that never addressed the issue. But I'm still confused as to why there would be a noticeable effect from 3 shots of test from a starting BW of low test and it's inconceivable that the same ester would supposedly have zero noticeable effect from a mid/low range? That doesn't make sense to me yet. So even though it wasn't much of a serious topic there was eventually some insight or hypothesis which gives me something to read or think about .