Oxandrolone could be taken all year round

[Jeff_rys]

Nelson, you read read the first paragraf of the URL, maybe there is your answer.

quote:
"All orals require the liver to convert (conjugate) them into the active form of the drug. Injectables bypass the liver and enter the blood stream in their active form".

As for Fonz, you must admit, he knows his stuff. Besides, it was on the Internet, youngsters put on Ox and liver values improved. Unfortunately this was a few years ago and i do not find the URL again.


Do you really think that injectables DO NOT affect the liver. It is better to take an oral (OX) that passes the liver twice, then taking an injectable that kills your liver, even when it has to pass only once.

Jeff

 

[Jeff_rys]

Well TX, i would go for the 2x4 months. But at the time i did not want to go off, even if gains stabilized. The power and the extra drive to train convinced me to stay on. Also blood tests, showed not to worry, certainly not for the liver values.
I would go for the 2x4 months, because it can well be that gains would be better this way. Afterall your body probably adjust to the Ox. We must not forget that this is a mild drug.

If i remember correctly, HTPA recovered easy. Balls never really where away. Sure they shrink, but not totally. Now when i was doing 200 mgr of Winstrol (winny) Zambon a day, balls where almost gone, small like peanuts.

I took nothing to speed of recovery, so no Clomid, nothing.

Jeff

 

[Jeff_rys]

quote:
"Ox is not the "safest" roid in the world. It is 17 AA and that very process makes it a strain on the liver. Your presumptions to the contrary are erroneous. "

How about it Nelson and Drveejay, since Ox is not the safest roid in the world, let's hear which one is....

I am still waiting here.

Jeff

 

[StoneColdNTO]

Do you really think that injectables DO NOT affect the liver. It is better to take an oral (OX) that passes the liver twice, then taking an injectable that kills your liver, even when it has to pass only once.

Jeff

So what injectables actually "kill your liver" ??

Man am I confused..........you're saying it'd better to take an oral as compared to an injectable.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Nelson, you read read the first paragraf of the URL, maybe there is your answer.

quote:
"All orals require the liver to convert (conjugate) them into the active form of the drug. Injectables bypass the liver and enter the blood stream in their active form".

As for Fonz, you must admit, he knows his stuff. Besides, it was on the Internet, youngsters put on Ox and liver values improved. Unfortunately this was a few years ago and i do not find the URL again.


Do you really think that injectables DO NOT affect the liver. It is better to take an oral (OX) that passes the liver twice, then taking an injectable that kills your liver, even when it has to pass only once.

Jeff

I must admit; Fonz is a moron. He's a big shot on a message board which means he's nobody. No credentials other than his own high opinion of himself. No endorsements of anyone of merit. Nothing. He could never get published in any journal or magazine. He's the perfect internet guru because he appeals to clueless newbies who don't know better and pedantic geeks who love complex calculations that they don't even understand. Fonz doesn't understand them either but he copies the text real good. Ask around these parts about the infamous "cattle implant" thread of Fonz's. Or his contributions to the anorexia boards. Or his scamming. Enough. He isn't worth the time to dismiss.

The comparison of one steroid to another must be made on a risk to benefit scale comparing mg to mg.

It's also obvious you simply do not understand the concept of 17 AA vs something that goes directly in the bloodstream. Accept that. Ask questions. But don't embarass yourself trying to justify something stupid with a lot of nonsense.

 

[TxLonghorn]

As for Fonz, you must admit, he knows his stuff. Besides, it was on the Internet, youngsters put on Ox and liver values improved. Unfortunately this was a few years ago and i do not find the URL again.

As for Fonz, there have been two many problems with some of the advice he's given and too many holes. I think sometimes he's right, sometimes not. He could also tone down his attitude.

For ox, I read where the body produces an enzyme that breaks down the 17-aa, but only up to a certain point...like 40mg/day. Obviously some people will have liver problems on anything, and others will have no problems on dbol. Regardless, ox is THE easiest of all the orals on your liver.

Is it the safest of all the gear? Who knows. There have been a few people on eq for 600mg/week for months on end, and they love it. Maybe eq is safer, I don't know.

 

[TxLonghorn]

He's the perfect internet guru because he appeals to clueless newbies who don't know better and pedantic geeks who love complex calculations that they don't even understand.

I think this is the biggest problem...potentially dangerous advice to people who don't really know better.

If somebody gave me bad or questionable advice, it really wouldn't matter because you can bet your ass I'm gonna check it out first, but newbies don't always do that. Hell, even people who aren't newbies don't always do that. Most don't have the time or desire to do that much research, and I don't blame them.

 

[TxLonghorn]

Now when i was doing 200 mgr of Winstrol (winny) Zambon a day, balls where almost gone, small like peanuts.

Ok, now this one I'm interested in as well.

This sounds like a fukkenshredded post in the making. Btw, jeff, if you could, I'd love to see fukken over here. He doesn't post often, but I've yet to read an uninteresting post of his.

Ulter, can you do anything about this, lol.

 

[Drveejay11]

quote:
"Ox is not the "safest" roid in the world. It is 17 AA and that very process makes it a strain on the liver. Your presumptions to the contrary are erroneous. "

How about it Nelson and Drveejay, since Ox is not the safest roid in the world, let's hear which one is....

I am still waiting here.

Jeff

How the HELL did I get thrown into this squabble?

All I mentioned was that Anavar (var) DID impact my hepatic profile negatively and should NOT be considered NON-TOXIC!!! As DRJMW pointed out "Anyone that understands the pharamcology of oral medications knows about the concept of "multiple pass-through's." All orals require the liver to convert (conjugate) them into the active form of the drug. Injectables bypass the liver and enter the blood stream in their active form. The less one uses his liver, the healthier it remains."

 

[Sanjac]

I don't know why there are so many positive statements about oxandrolone on this thread (and others). You need to get it through your heads, 17-alpha-alkylated = BAD! Additionally, oxandrolone is EXPENSIVE and INEFFECTIVE.

Oxandrolone may be the least detrimental of the 17-aa steroids, but it is also the one of the least anabolic of ALL of the steroids. In other words, it is not very effective at promoting muscle growth.

Oxandrolone, believe it or not, promotes weight gain by increasing water retention (personal experience, flame me if you want, I don't give care. However, it was determined by careful empirical observation). Oxandrolone does not really promote protein synthesis IMHO. The strength gains described above can be explained by water retention.

As for the "safest" steroid around, I really cannot believe that any professional would not recommend testosterone for safety. On a mg to mg basis, and in a comparison of effectiveness, testosterone CANNOT be beat.

As for the guy who states (I think this is Jeff):

"...Do you really think that injectables DO NOT affect the liver. It is better to take an oral (OX) that passes the liver twice, then taking an injectable that kills your liver, even when it has to pass only once..."


SJ

BTW, I will gladly answer questions, email me at sanjac@operamail.com

 

[AAP]

Jeff rys - what's up man. Where you been? I ain't seen you in a long time. Last time you posted on EF was when you were heading to Customs to steal your GH back that they seized. How did that ever turn out?
Been ok?

 

[TxLonghorn]

Be careful guys, keep the flames off the anabolic board. If you don't agree with somebody's position, say so, don't attack the person.

 

[TxLonghorn]

Oxandrolone, believe it or not, promotes weight gain by increasing water retention (personal experience, flame me if you want, I don't give care. However, it was determined by careful empirical observation). Oxandrolone does not really promote protein synthesis IMHO. The strength gains described above can be explained by water retention.
[/email]

Interesting take on ox about the water retention. Kind of like creatine which, btw, ox helps your creatine uptake as well.

I don't know..., but interesting.

Having said this, what do you think about ox's ability to decrease fat in the midsection in men? Would the water retention interfere with this?

 

[Jeff_rys]

Sorry, i overlooked your saying:
quote:
"Man am I confused..........you're saying it'd better to take an oral as compared to an injectable."

NO, certainly not. But you are better of with an oral like Ox, then an injectable like Winny.

Jeff

 

[Jeff_rys]

yes, TxLonghorn, but i made a typo...

Ok, now this one I'm interested in as well.

This sounds like a fukkenshredded post in the making. Btw, jeff, if you could, I'd love to see fukken over here. He doesn't post often, but I've yet to read an uninteresting post of his.

Ulter, can you do anything about this, lol.

Should have typed: 100 mgr/day (in fact 600 mgr/week), 12x50 mgr of Zambon a week.

But i will get back into this.

Jeff

 

[Jeff_rys]

Sanjac, i know some roids affect the liver some the kidneys. I am not saying test will affect your liver, it will affect your hair....

It indeed is better to take an oral (in this case Ox, then an injectable that is bad for the liver).

Now you must admit Ox is safer then D-bol, right?

Jeff

 

[Jeff_rys]

Bad,it turned out bad

Jeff rys - what's up man. Where you been? I ain't seen you in a long time. Last time you posted on EF was when you were heading to Customs to steal your GH back that they seized. How did that ever turn out?
Been ok?

Well AAP, i lost the stuff and payd a fine of 150 €. I went overthere, could get into the building, but the door to the office i wanted to get in, was closed. There was a hall of about 150 yards long (it's difficult to measure that correctly) and i had to walk all the way to the second last door. Meanwhile there was at least one custom in the first office. Fortunately he did not open the door.

Recently another package got seized. Now it can well be they will sent me to court. Anyway i lost 100 vials of 4 IU's and 60 vials i had at home.

So no more importing for me.....

The second time they interrogated me for 3 hours with 3 persons.......

I am surprised you still remember this.

Jeff

 

[Jeff_rys]

About the water retention. Well this is minor, like with HGH.
Maybe instead of using Anavar with creatine, one should throw in some CLA.....

Jeff

 

[Essex boy]

Re: Re: Oxandrolone could be taken all year round

This is some of the most idiotic advise I've read in some time.

Not only are your facts wrong but 14 pounds in 12 weeks? Fuck, you can gain that in that much time with NO gear.

I'm not aying this to flame but to warn any newbies who may be reading it and thinking you may know what you're talking about. And maybe you can take it as a heads up yourself. Ox is not the "safest" roid in the world. It is 17 AA and that very process makes it a strain on the liver. Your presumptions to the contrary are erroneous.

Sounds like you've been listening to that moron "Fonz" over at Elite. Don't.

14 pounds in 12 weeks naturally?

I dont think so Nelson, unless you are an 18 year old who has never trained before and your natural test levels are through the roof.

 

[frotobaggins]

14 lbs in 12 weeks is not an unatainable goal by any means. As long as diet and training are in check. I dont like ox for the simple fact that its; overpriced, 17aa, and the gains you see could easliy be matched by diet, cardio, thermos, and a very low dose of test. And believe you me....this would be a much safer way to go.