Restart opinions please....

[SugarMouth]

I am doing a restart and here is what they prescribed me.

Was on TRT for 20 months.

3 weeks after last pin they wanted me to start:

1ml HCG EOD total 8ml

100mg Clomid for 15 days then 50mg for 30

20mg Tamoxifen for 45 days

I read many different ideas on how this should work. What are your opinions?

I just started the clomid yesterday and have blurred vision today, not happy with that.

One more question, I have been off TRT for a month now and just started PCT. I was actually feeling fine, much better than I expected. If I don't do PCT am I reducing my chances of a recovery or just delaying it? If its just a delay I am cool with that at this point.

 

[IMT staff]

Need to know how many IU's HCG.

No need to front load clomid at all.

The reason why you feel fine is because the TC is not out of your system yet.

 

[SugarMouth]

Need to know how many IU's HCG.

No need to front load clomid at all.

The reason why you feel fine is because the TC is not out of your system yet.

2500 units/ml HCG

What amount of Clomid do you recommend?

 

[IMT staff]

No clomid until your done with your HCG plus 4 days.

I would do 1/2ml of the HCG QOD. That should give you 32 days. I personally think you should do HCG for 2 months but if thats all you got thats how I would do it.

Hopefully you have pharm grade HCG, its silly to attempt a restart with black market stuff.

 

[SugarMouth]

No clomid until your done with your HCG plus 4 days.

I would do 1/2ml of the HCG QOD. That should give you 32 days. I personally think you should do HCG for 2 months but if thats all you got thats how I would do it.

Hopefully you have pharm grade HCG, its silly to attempt a restart with black market stuff.

Thanks!

It seems everyone has a different protocol for PCT, there does not seem to be one way to do it.

My doc says to do the Tamoxifen, Clomid and HCG all at once.

Frankly, its confusing and makes me unsure what I need to be doing.

Do you have any idea why my doc would do all three at once?

Meds are all from a compounder.

 

[SugarMouth]

Also, is clomid required? I had blurred vision first day on this stuff.

 

[IMT staff]

It makes no sense to do HCG with SERM's. HCG is partially suppressive. Meaning although it stimulates the testes it is suppressive to the pituitary. SERM's stimulate the pituitary. So now you can see it makes no sense to do it that way.

On 50mg of clomid you wont get blurred vision. No reason to ever go 49mg on Clomid. Any dosage about that gives you less than 5% return.

I would do the HCG and anastrozole if needed for a while and the reassess.

We definitely do it the right way, if you read differently they probably do not have that much experience.

 

[SugarMouth]

It makes no sense to do HCG with SERM's. HCG is partially suppressive. Meaning although it stimulates the testes it is suppressive to the pituitary. SERM's stimulate the pituitary. So now you can see it makes no sense to do it that way.

On 50mg of clomid you wont get blurred vision. No reason to ever go 49mg on Clomid. Any dosage about that gives you less than 5% return.

I would do the HCG 1/2 ML and anastrozole if needed for a while and the reassess.

We definitely do it the right way, if you read differently they probably do not have that much experience.

Got ya, so try just the tamoxifen and HCG 1/2ml EOD and shelve the Clomid for now?

 

[IMT staff]

Tamoxifen is a SERM too. No need for that now either.

 

[SugarMouth]

I only have the HCG, Tamoxifen and Clomid. Do you suggest just the HCG on it's own?

 

[SugarMouth]

Update:

As part of my PCT Ive been doing 5000 HCG/week and 20mg/day Tamoxifen for about 2 weeks. Been off TRT for 6 weeks.

LH is still <0.2
Test is 474
Free test is 10.7

Lets see if anything improves in the next 4 weeks. My doc wanted me to also use Clomid but my vision was so blurry I could not read my computer screen so that is not currently part of my PCT.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

No reason to do tamoxifen and HCG together, but I think we already discussed this.

 

[SugarMouth]

This is so confusing. My doctor said to do Clomid, HCG and Tamoxifen all together. Then I get the replies above. Then I read from other sources to do HCG and tamoxifen together. I have half the bottle of HCG left, all the clomid and a month of Tamoxifen.

Clomid is out if I want to see at work. What do you recommend at this point?

 

[Milton]

This is so confusing. My doctor said to do Clomid, HCG and Tamoxifen all together. Then I get the replies above. Then I read from other sources to do HCG and tamoxifen together. I have half the bottle of HCG left, all the clomid and a month of Tamoxifen.

Clomid is out if I want to see at work. What do you recommend at this point?

so what the hell do you come here and ask for advice then?? these guys know their shit better than any doc out there. listen to these guys or go somewhere else and ask.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

This is so confusing. My doctor said to do Clomid, HCG and Tamoxifen all together. Then I get the replies above. Then I read from other sources to do HCG and tamoxifen together. I have half the bottle of HCG left, all the clomid and a month of Tamoxifen.

Clomid is out if I want to see at work. What do you recommend at this point?

Tamoxifen and HCG do not go together. HCG stimulates the testes but is suppressive to the pituitary. Tamoxifen stimulates the pituitary.

So basically you are wasting your tamoxifen.

Tamoxifen stimulates LH release. HCG mimics LH. When you take HCG your body thinks you have plenty of LH so it will not send it out.

Like Milton said we know this better than any doctor you talk to, you are his guinea pig it sounds like.

During the first phase of the restart the goal is to re-sensitize the testes (leydig cells) to get them ready to receive LH. The second phase is getting the pituitary to send out LH (and FSH but thats another discussion).

Anastrozole is what you may need with HCG, to control aromatase.

 

[SugarMouth]

Tamoxifen and HCG do not go together. HCG stimulates the testes but is suppressive to the pituitary. Tamoxifen stimulates the pituitary.

So basically you are wasting your tamoxifen.

Tamoxifen stimulates LH release. HCG mimics LH. When you take HCG your body thinks you have plenty of LH so it will not send it out.

Like Milton said we know this better than any doctor you talk to, you are his guinea pig it sounds like.

During the first phase of the restart the goal is to re-sensitize the testes (leydig cells) to get them ready to receive LH. The second phase is getting the pituitary to send out LH (and FSH but thats another discussion).

Anastrozole is what you may need with HCG, to control aromatase.

Thank you! With what I do have would you recommend just the HCG on it's own or?

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

Yea unless you get estrogen side effects. Then you need to get an AI like anastrozole.

 

[Milton]

so i hurt OPs feelings, I am devastated. look at what your saying once and for all.

.This is so confusing. My doctor said to do Clomid, HCG and Tamoxifen all together. Then I get the replies above. Then I read from other sources to do HCG and tamoxifen together."

you come here for advice then your trying to listen to your doc and whatever other sources you read. pick an info source and stick to it once and for all. I echo these words, THE MEMBERS ON THIS BOARD KNOW THEIR SHIT INSIDE AND OUT AND I WILL TAKE THE PEPSI CHALLENGE AGAINST ANY DOC, OTHER SOURCE, WHOMEVER.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

^^^^^ he is correct. (as usual)

 

[juced_porkchop]

Thanks!

It seems everyone has a different protocol for PCT, there does not seem to be one way to do it.

My doc says to do the Tamoxifen, Clomid and HCG all at once.

Frankly, its confusing and makes me unsure what I need to be doing.

Do you have any idea why my doc would do all three at once?

Meds are all from a compounder.

keep the clomid at 50mg ed all the way through and start it just after ( 2-4 days) last dose of HCG.
thats my opinion anyways.
also whats the dose on the hcg? whats each ml gonna have in it, it can be anything so 1ml without mg/ml ratio doesnt help us help you