shooting slin am and pm

[DirkMoneyshot]

Why do we always feel that we need som guys in lab coats proving or disproving a question for us.

How about just using common sense and first hand experience???

 

[Eze]

How about just using common sense and first hand experience???

That a novel idea!!!

I barely read any of the "science lab experiment" posts that poeple put on the board. I like to be my own judge and see how I react, not how some test subject did.

 

[THE BOUNCER]

I was running slin at 10iu in the morning and 10iu post workout. Did that for about a month and decided I didnt like the way it made me feel in the morning. I switched to 15iu post workout and liked it much better.

 

[Bruce Banner]

Why do we always feel that we need som guys in lab coats proving or disproving a question for us.

How about just using common sense and first hand experience???

I think you are missanderstanding my point.

I have been lifting weights for 10 years and is now 304lb and can benchpress 450lb for reps. I have used insulin and steroids for years (not in one setting however...). It's not that I am a 16 year old teen hiding behind some fancy studies trying to piss people off. I can honesly say I have some experience without making a fool of myself.

I'm certanly aware of the potential dangers with insulin use. But when someone says something with 100% certainty I expect some scientific facts to back that claim up, I don't think thats a unreasonable requirement.

Yes, its a possebility that you can cause a decrease in insulin sensitivity doing high doses of insulin. But if someone is going to be 100% sure about something I expect more than just personal experience.

I may sound like an asshole, thats not my intention. My intention is to bring some light over this complex subject.

/Bruce

 

[THE BOUNCER]

I think you are missanderstanding my point.

I have been lifting weights for 10 years and is now 304lb and can benchpress 450lb for reps. I have used insulin and steroids for years (not in one setting however...). It's not that I am a 16 year old teen hiding behind some fancy studies trying to piss people off. I can honesly say I have some experience without making a fool of myself.

I'm certanly aware of the potential dangers with insulin use. But when someone says something with 100% certainty I expect some scientific facts to back that claim up, I don't think thats a unreasonable requirement.

Yes, its a possebility that you can cause a decrease in insulin sensitivity doing high doses of insulin. But if someone is going to be 100% sure about something I expect more than just personal experience.

I may sound like an asshole, thats not my intention. My intention is to bring some light over this complex subject.

/Bruce

good post bro.

 

[slava]

you are definitely right in your own way. but take a minute to think about it. how would you conduct a study like that? take a 100 people and staff them with super human doses of slin till they all develop diabetes? lets talk facts. an oddly high number of proffesional powerlifters and bodybuilders develop diabetes. were they predisposed to it? maybe, but either way slin defenitely contributed to it. you have yet to answer my question - if insulin doesnt cause diabetes whats the reason behind cycling? i am by no means educated on the subject, the only thing i know is that after few years of heavy insulin use my friend developed diabetes. for some reason i highly doubt he would develop it otherwise.

 

[Trevdog]

you are definitely right in your own way. but take a minute to think about it. how would you conduct a study like that? take a 100 people and staff them with super human doses of slin till they all develop diabetes? lets talk facts. an oddly high number of proffesional powerlifters and bodybuilders develop diabetes. were they predisposed to it? maybe, but either way slin defenitely contributed to it. you have yet to answer my question - if insulin doesnt cause diabetes whats the reason behind cycling? i am by no means educated on the subject, the only thing i know is that after few years of heavy insulin use my friend developed diabetes. for some reason i highly doubt he would develop it otherwise.

What is the reason? Plenty of people develop diabetes.

Bottom line - nobody can produce anything but bare speculation to support the claim that exogenous insulin use can cause diabetes or even that it increases insulin resistance.

Since plenty of people have used insulin for long periods of time at high dosages without developing any problems, my belief is that insulin use does not cause diabetes.

 

[DirkMoneyshot]

What is the reason? Plenty of people develop diabetes.

Bottom line - nobody can produce anything but bare speculation to support the claim that exogenous insulin use can cause diabetes or even that it increases insulin resistance.

Since plenty of people have used insulin for long periods of time at high dosages without developing any problems, my belief is that insulin use does not cause diabetes.

And nobody can support the claim that it doesn't-

However, i think just looking at how our body reacts to other outside sources would point one in the direction.

What happens when you drink for long periods of time? You develop a tolerance and more and more alcohol is needed to get drunk.

How about caffeine?? Same thing you need more and more to elicit the response.

I could go on and on - but i think its apparent that eventually the human body is going to do the same with insulin.

 

[house1]

And nobody can support the claim that it doesn't-

However, i think just looking at how our body reacts to other outside sources would point one in the direction.

What happens when you drink for long periods of time? You develop a tolerance and more and more alcohol is needed to get drunk.

How about caffeine?? Same thing you need more and more to elicit the response.

I could go on and on - but i think its apparent that eventually the human body is going to do the same with insulin.

agreed--


whats up dms

 

[DirkMoneyshot]

I think you are missanderstanding my point.

I have been lifting weights for 10 years and is now 304lb and can benchpress 450lb for reps. I have used insulin and steroids for years (not in one setting however...). It's not that I am a 16 year old teen hiding behind some fancy studies trying to piss people off. I can honesly say I have some experience without making a fool of myself.

I'm certanly aware of the potential dangers with insulin use. But when someone says something with 100% certainty I expect some scientific facts to back that claim up, I don't think thats a unreasonable requirement.

Yes, its a possebility that you can cause a decrease in insulin sensitivity doing high doses of insulin. But if someone is going to be 100% sure about something I expect more than just personal experience.

I may sound like an asshole, thats not my intention. My intention is to bring some light over this complex subject.

/Bruce

And i can totally respect that -

I wish i could provide some study to show one way or another what happens. However

All i can go by is my experience helping people get ready for shows, talking with other nutritionist in the biz.

I never thought you were being an asshole, and we both want the 100% truth.

I would rather side on the cautious side then risk my long term health.

It should never be the idea to try and build the muscle through insulin, but to supercompensate the glycogen stores following days of lifting that require large amounts of energy (IE: Legs, Back).

 

[Bruce Banner]

you are definitely right in your own way. but take a minute to think about it. how would you conduct a study like that? take a 100 people and staff them with super human doses of slin till they all develop diabetes? lets talk facts. an oddly high number of proffesional powerlifters and bodybuilders develop diabetes. were they predisposed to it? maybe, but either way slin defenitely contributed to it. you have yet to answer my question - if insulin doesnt cause diabetes whats the reason behind cycling? i am by no means educated on the subject, the only thing i know is that after few years of heavy insulin use my friend developed diabetes. for some reason i highly doubt he would develop it otherwise.

You talk about facts when you don't seem to have any...? Compered to others, do proffessional bbers and powerlifters develop diabates in oddly high numbers?

I do not think it would bee a strange study investigating insulin resistance in non diabetic people using insulin. I've seen worse...

The reason behind the general recomendation to cycle insulin is that no one (not even me...) want to have a guilty conscience over what might happen if I recomend someone to use insulin for very long periods. Does it prevent me from doing it, no.

There is so many "bodybuilding truths" and the hole community is filled with speculations. There is nothing wrong with speculations, but when they become facts without and substance i think it's sad.

Take the T3 tapering for exampel. Who said it MUST be tapered in the first place? And where is the evidence that you can permanently screw up your thyroid axis? It's just an examlpe but unfortunately there is so many "facts" you start to wonder if people turn of their brains and let some internet guy do the thinking for them.

Ok, back to the original topic.

I'm with DirkMoneyshot and mranak on this one. I think most people can get away with the same results without insulin if they would eat like they were on insulin...The results with fast acting after workout is not that great, but doing 10-15iu after a heavy leg workout can have its purpose.

The best results I have had from insulin is with long acting, I got ridiculous strong and that fast as hell. But is it something a can recomend to others, absolutely not.

/Bruce

 

[josey wales]

i was thinking of shooting slin both in the morning and after my workout. i only plan to do 15ius. would this be fine or is it a sure way to get diabetes?

I wouldn't use slin twice a day. I would only use it after lifting. You want to shuttle nutrients into your muscles during that critical post-workout recovery period. If you use it in the morning you won't be shuttling nutrients into recovering muscle cells. Also, I think using it 2x a day runs a greater risk of making you fat. (A lot of slin users are just plain plump.) You have to watch your diet pretty closely for 3-4 hours after using slin, and perhaps longer if you use Humalin R or some other slower acting slin (i.e., slower than Humalog). If you eat too many carbs (i.e., more than that amount necessary to just keep you out of a hypo state), or you eat any fats at all, during that 3-4 hour period you will gain fat tissue. If I took slin in the morning, it would be hard for me to get in my daily dose of EFA's.

Finally, I think 15iu's is too high. Most people start with 4-5ius and work their way up to 10iu's. I've heard of people using 15+iu's, but they are in the ballsy-minority. The safest route is to cycle slin 4wks on, 4+ weeks off. But if 10iu's stops working during my 4wks on, I would stop the slin for awhile because that is a sign that I am losing insulin sensitivity. Good luck.