Something I really don't get about mass gains

[Dave1]

Ok so I'm confused as to how much mass gain is possible in cycles for people.

Dorian Yates gained 70lbs of actual lean muscle in 13 years:



He's obviously massive.

The part with my problem though is I've been told/ saw people make gains where they keep 12lbs of lean muscle in their first cycle or more. Then in another few cycles they gain and keep something like 10bs of muscle. So in 4 cycles that's 42lbs of muscle. Top that with like 15lbs natural and that's 57 lbs of muscle. Am I missing something. Surely it's not that easy to get to that size?

Do you gain less muscle per cycle? Or do people lie about how much they've gained. Because then surely people who've done around 6/7 cycles would be bodybuilder level. My problem in simple is can it be that quick to make gains like that?

I'm not sure how many of you actually know or understand what I'm talking about but it's really confusing me.

Any ideas?

 

[DADAWG]

Ok so I'm confused as to how much mass gain is possible in cycles for people.

Dorian Yates gained 70lbs of actual lean muscle in 13 years:



He's obviously massive.

The part with my problem though is I've been told/ saw people make gains where they keep 12lbs of lean muscle in their first cycle or more. Then in another few cycles they gain and keep something like 10bs of muscle. So in 4 cycles that's 42lbs of muscle. Top that with like 15lbs natural and that's 57 lbs of muscle. Am I missing something. Surely it's not that easy to get to that size?

Do you gain less muscle per cycle? Or do people lie about how much they've gained. Because then surely people who've done around 6/7 cycles would be bodybuilder level. My problem in simple is can it be that quick to make gains like that?

I'm not sure how many of you actually know or understand what I'm talking about but it's really confusing me.

Any ideas?

you are really over thinking this stuff.
some lie , some dont count what they lose when the get off cycle and most of all your not counting the fact that once you reach a certain size gains are very hard to come by even on cycle.

 

[Dave1]

you are really over thinking this stuff.
some lie , some dont count what they lose when the get off cycle and most of all your not counting the fact that once you reach a certain size gains are very hard to come by even on cycle.

Yea I thought that might be the reason why it's just I thought if you can make that good gains then it can't be that hard.

Still though, I've gained about 15-20 lbs of muscle since I started (poor I know) and my goal physique is about 45-50 lbs of muscle (so about 5/7ths of what Dorian has lol) so with a few cycle you'd think it will be quite easy to achieve no?

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

yea it sux, gains come slower and slower. sometimes to a screeching halt for months at a time.

 

[Dave1]

yea it sux, gains come slower and slower. sometimes to a screeching halt for months at a time.

Even during cycles? How many cycles does it take until gains start to slow down?

 

[DADAWG]

Even during cycles? How many cycles does it take until gains start to slow down?

if gains slow during cycle you probably arent eating enough.when your on cycle and your weight increases so does your calorie requirements . the bigger the machine = the more fuel it needs.

everone is different as far as to when gains will slow but it largely boils down to how close you are to natural potential. once you reach your natural genetic limit gains are SLOW and larger and larger doses are needed.

 

[tgerm]

Your genetic response to gear is key. 2 people who eat, train, cycle, etc the same could wind up with drastically different results.

 

[Dave1]

if gains slow during cycle you probably arent eating enough.when your on cycle and your weight increases so does your calorie requirements . the bigger the machine = the more fuel it needs.

everone is different as far as to when gains will slow but it largely boils down to how close you are to natural potential. once you reach your natural genetic limit gains are SLOW and larger and larger doses are needed.

I see thanks a lot.

Just one more thing though how many pounds of lean muscle do you guys think these guys hold because I used to think I was about 60 pounds off but I'm clearly not if Dorian only holds 70.


(Tanner Parkes. He's my goal/ideal)

How much lean muscle do these guys hold approximately if Dorian Yates holds 70?

Maybe if I keep around 35 solid pounds from my 4 cycles with very hard work then I can have one of those on top of my quite small natural gains.

 

[DADAWG]

I see thanks a lot.

Just one more thing though how many pounds of lean muscle do you guys think these guys hold because I used to think I was about 60 pounds off but I

(Tanner Parkes. He's my goal/ideal)

How much lean muscle do these guys hold approximately if Dorian Yates holds 70?

Maybe if I keep around 35 solid pounds from my 4 cycles with very hard work then I can have one of those on top of my quite small natural gains.

i cant help you , sorry .


your way to concerned with numbers and possiblities. this is NOT a exact science .

 

[3J]

just get your diet in gear... 80% of getting big has to do with your diet.. stop thinking pounds of muscle and start thinking calories..

come into the diet section.. dont let your cycle go to waste with a poor diet..

 

[Dave1]

just get your diet in gear... 80% of getting big has to do with your diet.. stop thinking pounds of muscle and start thinking calories..

come into the diet section.. dont let your cycle go to waste with a poor diet..

My nutrition is good. I follow stickys on lots of different websites and eat very well. I'll be eating 7 meals per day with around 4500 cals, 1.5-2g protein per lb of weight,making sure I make good use of carbs and fat and will be eating only good quality food such as steaks, fish, eggs etc. I know I will have my nutrition down by the time my first cycle comes around.

I suppose it is too hard to say how much lean muscle someone is holding but I think that after my 4th cycle if I train hard and eat very strictly then I will achieve my goal body pretty easily. I have pretty decent genetics as well so I don't see how anything could stop me gaining around 35 lean pounds of muscle.

 

[Dave1]

These are my cycle plans for anyone who's interested:

Cycle 1

500mgs test enth for 10 weeks

Cycle 2

600mgs test enth
30mgs dbol/day for first 4 weeks

12 week cycle

Cycle 3

test enth 500mgs
deca 300mgs
dbol 35mgs/day for first 4 weeks

12 week cycle

Cycle 4

test enth 600mgs
deca 400mgs or eq 400mgs
dbol 50mgs/day for first 4 weeks

12 week cycle

 

[DADAWG]

These are my cycle plans for anyone who's interested:

Cycle 1

500mgs test enth for 10 weeks

Cycle 2

600mgs test enth
30mgs dbol/day for first 4 weeks

12 week cycle

Cycle 3

test enth 500mgs
deca 300mgs
dbol 35mgs/day for first 4 weeks

12 week cycle

Cycle 4

test enth 600mgs
deca 400mgs or eq 400mgs
dbol 50mgs/day for first 4 weeks

12 week cycle

how can you POSSIBLY plan cycles 2/3/4/etc. when you dont know how you responded to previous cycles / steroids / doses /etc.


start worrying about now and quit worrying about 2 years from now . ITS NOT THIS FREAKING COMPLICATED>

 

[hatefulONE]

EQ needs to be higher, 600mg I'd say. Dave1, what are you current stats? Most people can gain a good amount of weight each cycle and naturally after the cycle but will they? No because a lot are idiots and stop training hard and get into a garbage diet after the cycle.

 

[Dave1]

EQ needs to be higher, 600mg I'd say. Dave1, what are you current stats? Most people can gain a good amount of weight each cycle and naturally after the cycle but will they? No because a lot are idiots and stop training hard and get into a garbage diet after the cycle.

Bodybuilding is a major part of my life so I'll work just as hard if not harder off cycle. I haven't weighed myself in ages because I've always felt weight is irrelevant to me.

But I am 5'11 and around 8% bf.

oh and to me steroids are complicated lol

 

[5x10]

I'm not sure how many of you actually know or understand what I'm talking about but it's really confusing me.

Any ideas?

yes, i know exactly what your talking about

it really boils down to, how often they cycle

if they cycle once every few years, they wont have kept much because over that period of time, there hormone levels will avg out closer to their genetically set amount

then you have guys that stay on all the time(yates or any pro for that matter), they will continue to gain as they will increase amounts, add hgh and others, and have the genetics

if you truely kept the gains, there there would be no need to cycle again

 

[Dave1]

yes, i know exactly what your talking about

it really boils down to, how often they cycle

if they cycle once every few years, they wont have kept much because over that period of time, there hormone levels will avg out closer to their genetically set amount

then you have guys that stay on all the time(yates or any pro for that matter), they will continue to gain as they will increase amounts, add hgh and others, and have the genetics

if you truely kept the gains, there there would be no need to cycle again

Yea I think I understand now. Basically what you're saying is that you should have enough gains from a few cycles but when people come off the cycles they lose some of the the mass because unlike pros they actually come off. Makes sense.

I read that if you go past your genetic limit and come off cycles you go back down to your genetic limit. Is this true?

 

[5x10]

I read that if you go past your genetic limit and come off cycles you go back down to your genetic limit. Is this true?

exactly

we all have a hormonal govenor in our body that is genetically set

so all other variables constant(diet, rest,training, etc) the only thing that changes is your hormones

once we stop the hormone supplementation, our bodys recover(hopefully) back to the hormonal govenor and over time, the bodys muscles will respond to that limit

some guys say, u have to eat more coming off cycle, but thats just adjusting your diet, something that can be done independent of hormone supplementation

 

[Dave1]

how can you POSSIBLY plan cycles 2/3/4/etc. when you dont know how you responded to previous cycles / steroids / doses /etc.


start worrying about now and quit worrying about 2 years from now . ITS NOT THIS FREAKING COMPLICATED>

Yea I know but it's just a rough guess as to what I think I'd do. They are the steroids that I know a good bit about as well and would like to stick to them.

I know I look stupid for asking if I can get as big as "this guy" because it's down to genetics etc but I was just wandering what kinds of gains are attainable to see if the cycles are actually worth doing or not. I think I will be very happy with the gains I make of 4 cycles anyways but because I've got decent genetics and will work very hard on training and nutrition (especially nutrition).

I'll see anyways but I plan on gaining and keeping a very big amount of muscle mass over my 4 cycles (or 3 if I make good enough gains). My goals aren't really hard to achieve I'd imagine with this number of cycles anyway. Should be easy as long as I work hard on cycle and just as hard off it to keep the gains in between cycles and for years after they're done too.

 

[Dave1]

exactly

we all have a hormonal govenor in our body that is genetically set

so all other variables constant(diet, rest,training, etc) the only thing that changes is your hormones

once we stop the hormone supplementation, our bodys recover(hopefully) back to the hormonal govenor and over time, the bodys muscles will respond to that limit

some guys say, u have to eat more coming off cycle, but thats just adjusting your diet, something that can be done independent of hormone supplementation

If Dorian Yates holds 70 pounds of muscle and I have around 15/20 on me now and plan to gain a good 35 from 4 cycles then I think I will be very happy with my body when my cycles are done even when I lose some muscle (my training and nutrition will always be a big concentration for me even years after juicing), I should still be happy because 50 pounds of muscles is huge I believe.

Thanks for explaining that. Makes allot more sense in my head now.