Triptorelin

[Stick & Move]

The same, I haven't felt bad at all this whole time. I want to say my nuts feel full and back to size. Sorta had blue balls on the drive home last night but that went away with in the hour.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

Well you guys just confused the hell out of me, as we know I was still suppressed after initial post cycle therapy (pct). So I re-run post cycle and it looked like this. Blasted Hcg, did trip and started nolva clomid immediately afterward. Hope that works.

dont let me confuse you, im just thinking out load in order to get some thought going.

im really thinking waiting 2 weeks after last test e shot, use trip, skip HCG blast, and run a lil nolva during and couple weeks after trip is the way to go.

the nolva is just a back up plan to keep LH and FSH from falling from the trip, everything ive read says it WILL drop, but maybe the trip is such a good jump start that, that your body bounces right back afterward.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

the reason im so hung up on nolva, during and after is because im getting the impression the decrease in LH and FSH from trip is due to the negative feedback loop, and if too much is used for long periods, from over-stimulation of the pituitary.

meaning that it does such a good job of stimulating TT that your body says hey this is enough T, and limits LH and FSH production for a little.

Nolva would help to offset this negative feedback loop, and ward off any possible gyno from the stimulation.

following me now?

 

[jawbreaker1]

dont let me confuse you, im just thinking out load in order to get some thought going.

im really thinking waiting 2 weeks after last test e shot, use trip, skip HCG blast, and run a lil nolva during and couple weeks after trip is the way to go.

the nolva is just a back up plan to keep LH and FSH from falling from the trip, everything ive read says it WILL drop, but maybe the trip is such a good jump start that, that your body bounces right back afterward.

keep me updated det. I'm glad to have some one like you around.

 

[Stick & Move]

Well det-oak keep thinking. My test levels from the first post were 165 test and <.2 LH .2 FSH. Estrogen 28. So I Re-run my post and thru the trip in right after my hcg and then started the nolva clomid that day also. When do you think I should redo my bloods at this point to see if I recovered?

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

I wouldnt use clomid with the trip, and in the future discontinue HCG 2 weeks before trip. dont want ot over stimulate the pituitary. i would do bloods 2-4 weeks after SERM.

so lets say we do 12 TE cycle

HCG 500iu a week thoughout. stop HCG day of last T shot.

2 weeks later take trip. 2 days later start nolva and run 4-6weeks.

 

[Cobra Strike]

DET....I basically started clomid at 50/ed, torem at 30/ed, and nolva at 20/ed the day I found out I wasnt recovered. So 5 days later I blasted 100mcg of trip but kept on my serm therapy....so you are saying to not use the clomid....so what about torem?

 

[Stick & Move]

Well we will get it right on the next cycle if we ever recover

 

[cashout]

im really thinking waiting 2 weeks after last test e shot, use trip, skip HCG blast, and run a lil nolva during and couple weeks after trip is the way to go.

Pharmacologically, DET, what you wrote makes the most sense.

There is no need for the HCG blast with Trip. The nolva would seem appropriate for the stimulation of LH & FSH. Might also consider an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) tapered out over 4 weeks as well to avoid any unwanted buildup of E2 and feedback inhibition.

 

[Tcastle]

Has anyone bought it from propeptides ?
It's like 10 $ for 5 mg,
but because it's 5 mg it looks odd for being so cheap and why the hell would they sell it in 5 mg, unless it'd be really used by researching companies or some kind.

 

[UserAt204]

I'll take a look but I'm guessing it's something different. Is it trip acetate or GnRH. That would be a waste because you can't use more then 100mcg

 

[UserAt204]

1Mg = 1000mcg so 5000mcg for 10. That's crazy and it shows you how cheap peptides really are but you would need a way to measure micro grams. I wouldn't buy it from them. Even if you mixed up the entire vial and only used 100mcg, you would need to be very careful on accurate dosing.

 

[Tcastle]

Yeah, true. overdosing wouldn't be good for my balls.
i'll just go with extreme.

 

[djm6464]

I wouldnt use clomid with the trip, and in the future discontinue Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) 2 weeks before trip. dont want ot over stimulate the pituitary. i would do bloods 2-4 weeks after SERM.

so lets say we do 12 TE cycle

HCG 500iu a week thoughout. stop Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) day of last T shot.

2 weeks later take trip. 2 days later start nolva and run 4-6weeks.

this is the way i was leaning as well, then i read all these new posts from you, questioned myself, then got back to this lol

only thing is ill go with torem rather than nolva

this aint happening till sept, so keep thinking out loud

Might also consider an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) tapered out over 4 weeks as well to avoid any unwanted buildup of E2 and feedback inhibition.

agreed, aromasin around wk 2-3 of the serm, on hand just in case

 

[daouda]

This thread is great... I hope that the det oak will chime in some more with further thoughts about the ideal trip post cycle therapy (pct).

Although, for the moment the only "scientifically" validated trip post cycle therapy (pct) is a single 100mcg trip shot, nothing more, and it seems to work perfectly... So Im not sure about risking to compromise what seems like such a perfect post cycle therapy (pct) by adding more stuff to it. And that is the best thing about it : we can avoid the toxic SERMS and their side effects (ocular toxicity, hepatotoxicity, clomid "PMS" effect, lower libido and sore joints for some, nolva IGF-1 lowering effect) while still recovering better and faster. So far the only certain rationale i can see for nolva use with would be improvement of the lipids profile.
But I understand OAK and we need people like him to find out what could possibly be the best possible post cycle therapy (pct) using this compound.

I definitely agree with him on the fact that we have to avoid clomid after the trip shot to avoid pituitary overstimulation. But Im not sure that nolva wouldnt cause the same kind of problem by provoking maybe to much LH release, causing LH receptors downregulation (the reason why many wise people recommend not to use HCG along with a SERM, and why it is better to avoid too high doses of HCG or SERMS which can "restart" one faster but are ultimately counter-productive).

Ive read a triptorelin post cycle therapy (pct) log where the user complained of estrogenic sides (itchy nipples, water retention and abdominal fat) soon after the shot (but he used clomid too and dropped it because of terrible "blue balls") so he used letro for a few weeks and then recovered perfectly and felt amazing. He claimed this was his best post cycle therapy (pct) ever and will never do any other post cycle therapy (pct) than triptorelin plus an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) in the future.

So, I'm not sure about nolva, but i definitely think it would best to have an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) on hand (i too favor aromasin) and use it as soon as the slightest sign of high estrogens shows up, for a few weeks (shouldnt need to taper off with a suicidal inhibitor such as exemestane).

I hope to read further thoughts from THE DET OAK very soon.

 

[Flexy Flexerson]

Great first post, dude!

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

This thread is great... I hope that the det oak will chime in some more with further thoughts about the ideal trip PCT.

Although, for the moment the only "scientifically" validated trip PCT is a single 100mcg trip shot, nothing more, and it seems to work perfectly... So Im not sure about risking to compromise what seems like such a perfect PCT by adding more stuff to it. And that is the best thing about it : we can avoid the toxic SERMS and their side effects (ocular toxicity, hepatotoxicity, clomid "PMS" effect, lower libido and sore joints for some, nolva IGF-1 lowering effect) while still recovering better and faster. So far the only certain rationale i can see for nolva use with would be improvement of the lipids profile.
But I understand OAK and we need people like him to find out what could possibly be the best possible PCT using this compound.

I definitely agree with him on the fact that we have to avoid clomid after the trip shot to avoid pituitary overstimulation. But Im not sure that nolva wouldnt cause the same kind of problem by provoking maybe to much LH release, causing LH receptors downregulation (the reason why many wise people recommend not to use HCG along with a SERM, and why it is better to avoid too high doses of HCG or SERMS which can "restart" one faster but are ultimately counter-productive).

Ive read a triptorelin PCT log where the user complained of estrogenic sides (itchy nipples, water retention and abdominal fat) soon after the shot (but he used clomid too and dropped it because of terrible "blue balls") so he used letro for a few weeks and then recovered perfectly and felt amazing. He claimed this was his best PCT ever and will never do any other PCT than triptorelin plus an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) in the future.

So, I'm not sure about nolva, but i definitely think it would best to have an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) on hand (i too favor aromasin) and use it as soon as the slightest sign of high estrogens shows up, for a few weeks (shouldnt need to taper off with a suicidal inhibitor such as exemestane).

I hope to read further thoughts from THE DET OAK very soon.

it does seem to be a perfect post cycle therapy (pct), but there are some issues.

first and foremost we are on agreement: pituitary over stimulation.

secondly, aromatization, and we are in agreement there, i think aromasin would be a great compliment to the protocol.

third- this is were we disagree a little.

see every single thing i find on trip says "transient" increase in TT levels. This means that NO MATTER if you take it with T or after T drops, stimulation from trip WILL taper off, and from what im reading it tapers off to almost nothing.

So how is this a disadvantage? well your gonna bottom out. and the only difference between this flatline and the one after a T cycle is the time of suppression.

so we have to figure out a way to keep this from happening. Nolva, to me, is the only solution I can come up with.

2 reasons i say Nolva.

#1 it does not stimulate pituitary.

#2 when TT levels fall after trip, so does FSH and LH. So why not start nolva at the beginning of the decline? you wont stimulate too much LH, because it will take nolva 5-7 days to get working. the 2 days off plus the time it takes nolva to build up in the blood, brings us to 9 days after trip shot. and everything i see on trip shows that levels of FSH and LH drop to almost undetectable. so at this point, if we dont use nolva, it will simply be a matter of our body tring to bounce back into form, without help.

using the nolva will stimulate LH at the EXACT time we need stimulation, 9 days after trip. I do not see over stimulation of LH being a problem with this protocol.

so run HCG during cycle to offset negative feedback loop.

stop HCG day of last T injection.

14 days later use Trip as jumpstart (since thats all it really is) instead of an HCG blast.

then 2 days later jump on low dose Nolva, like 20mg, to offset negative feedback loop in hopes to keep T levels from falling.

 

[daouda]

Nice to see your quick reply, oak

see every single thing i find on trip says "transient" increase in TT levels. This means that NO MATTER if you take it with T or after T drops, stimulation from trip WILL taper off, and from what im reading it tapers off to almost nothing.

You seem to have read much more about trip than I have, but I want to be certain about this :
I also remember having read such a thing regarding a "transient" T increase, but I thought it was only a "transient" T increase within the scope of a continuous trip therapy with higher doses administered several times for a long period of time with the ultimate goal of achieving chemical castration through negative feedback (for prostate cancer patients, the primary intent of the drug). I am not 100% sure about this though as I cant remember where I have read about that "transient" increase and its circumstances.
So I thought that the single 100mcg dose had the property to establish a "complete HPTA restoration" in secondary hypogonadal males (which is what BBers are post cycle), which means that the T increase should be permanent.

I know that Dr Crisler succesfully achieved that with one of his patients (a young hypogonadal male, low T without AAS use) with nothing more than the single 100mcg shot. Actually that patient came here and posted about it on page 3 of this very thread
steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroid-forum/598571-triptorelin-3.html#post2797723

After SNRose07 (same pseudo on Crisler's board) told about his story on a Triptorelin thread on Dr Crisler's board, here is what the latter posted in the same thread

Big News!
Just got results back from my first Triptorelin therapy case.

Full HPTA restoration on a single 100mcg injection.

I will present the case more fully when I get the chance to fully review it. Muscular Development Magazine's Dr. Daniel Gwartney will be writing a story on it.

I would give the link to the thread but I'm not sure if its against the local rules since its on another board.

Anyway, like I said, "full HPTA restoration" doesnt sound like "transient T increase" to me..


BUT Dr Crisler is only a doctor, albeit a progressive one, and he probably didnt want to be too adventurous with his patient and decided to stick to what had been used in the italian study.
This doesnt mean this is the OPTIMAL way to use trip, especially for a BBer just coming off of an AAS cycle which is a different case.... And we can only count on crazy bodybuilders, those eternal willing guinea pigs, to extrapolate and experiment on themselves to find out what could be the BEST trip-based post cycle therapy (pct). This is why we really need those smart bodybuilders like OAK to really make advances in AAS use and HPTA restart protocols. He might be right with his nolva idea (although 20mg nolva isnt really a "low dose" if you arent coming off from an aromatizing AAS use), he might not be, the only way to know so far is to try it...

I can't help but think that it IS highly probable that the best trip PCT could be the SINGLE 100mcg SHOT NOTHING MORE, THE END (with an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) handy), but that it means such a big paradigm shift from what we used to do for post cycle THERAPY (that word alone intuitively seems incompatible with a single shot) that maybe we have a hard time letting go of our beloved/hated SERMs that were its cornerstone for as long as we can remember? Maybe the single shot seems too easy to be true when we got used to pay for our temporary supranatural powers (while on AAS) with a long and "painful" HCG and SERMs PCT that seemed to bring some balance to that temporary "pact with the devil" that we made?

Im not sure about what I am going to do personally yet (my PCT should start around july 10th), so let's keep sharing ideas about the best way to use this amazing compound.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

Swifto is that you?

ok back to the discussion.

I will give you the "low dose" Nolva. let me explain my thinking though. When we run nolva alone, we usually run 40/40/20/20, but when we run nolva and clomid we run 20/20/............. maybe 10 for the rest.

so IMO its a lower dose. Plus, from what ive read cause ive never had gyno, 20mg does not always do the trick to stop E from attaching. or maybe they just had non-pharm nolva i dont know. so i would assume it would take at least that much to offset a strong surge in T, due to neg feedback.

When applied over the short-term, GnRH (with or *without testosterone administered adjunctly) resulted in initial stimulation with progressive decline over time in LH, FSH, and testosterone levels to below baseline in approximately ten days:

Ok we have this, and yes you can make the argument that decline of LH and FSH was due to over stimulation of pituitary, the problem here is the daily dosing. the other problem is lack of info, or i should i say the right studies to examine. so yea im guessing here, but i think im pretty good at it

ive really only read that, and some things on med web pages and yes they were all using higher doses, but not for chemical castration purposes.

so lets take away the studies for a minute and thing logically about it.

We have one study, and one report on a bodybuilder that says "HPTA restoration after trip"

this does not mean there was not a trough in TT following trip dosage. its like saying "well i ran test/deca/tren and did no PCT and recovered fine"............I know many who have done this.

Now does this mean we stop doing PCT's?

back to logical. now this trip is suppose to be an exquisite TT booster, that alone right there tells me there is going to be neg feedback. if we hit 1k on the needle we are DEF gonna miss some LH and FSH here and there.

my thing is, i dont see the possibility of "over stimulation of LH" or if there is anything wrong with it. desensitization is a myth, so whats the harm? and if IM right whats the benefit? the reason why we are scared of clomid here is because it basically works the same way trip does, so thats why we steer clear from it, but nolva has a COMPLETELY different action than trip.

I hear the IGF-1 argument, but if TT troughs the same thing will happen anyway, most likely.

and where the hell is Cobra Strike, he is suppose to have bloods for us after his trip dose.

My mind is really having a hard time wrapping around something, that stimulates TT so well, without negative feedback, it just goes against everything ive ever learned. ANYTIME, there is a sharp rise in TT, neg feedback has to show its ass.............................

 

[UserAt204]

Yeah I agree oak. The first person I ever followed using this, used only the trip after a normal 15-16 week cycle. Recovery was great. I was watching closely because I expected to see a crash in t due to negative feedback somewhere around 30 days but it did not happen.

The next guy I followed had been on for about two years, ran a full pct but did not properly recover so he then took the shot of trip and was good to go. At that point I started guys trying it with a ful pct and hcg use.

At this point I completely agree with the low dose nolva. Logically it just makes the most sense. Man im really debating trying this. I go on long cycles and im considering coming off in a month or so and either trying trip only or trip/nolva. Honestly im thinking about trip only just to see how it effects me.