Trusting your doc w/roids
- Thread starter saulgoode
- Start date
simpllyhuge
New member
bump.
saulgoode said:
I dont know exactly what "Sports medicine" is but I would presume these guys would be familiar with steroid abusing patients. Also try to find an endocrinologist or doctors familiar with male hormone replacement, etc. Its not that a doctor is not "with it", I dont think they are taught a great deal about steroids in medical school, especially regarding the "abuse" of steroids so the average doctor's opinion who doesnt know much about steroids might not be able to give you a medical opinion worth a hill of beans.
Also ask for a lab to be done showing testosterone, estrodiol, IGF-1, cortisol, etc along with lipids levels. Its more informative for the steroid user then just the standard sugar level/HDL/LDL blood test.
bosshog
New member
Ok now some guys are going to argue with me about this but PLEASE take my advice ****NEVER EVER EVER TELL YOUR DOCTOR YOUR USING STEROIDS *****
There is no reason your doctor needs to know. The main reason to not tell your doctor is that more than likely he will note your file that you use steroids. If you ever switch your insurance company (which Im sure everyone does a few times through out their lifetime) they can and WILL view your medical files and WILL see you have used steroids... do you think they will insure somone who they know and has admitted to illegal drug use ?? The answer is no my friend... There is a chance your doc may not write it down in your file, but gambling insurance coverage for the rest of your life is certainly NOT worth it !!
There is no reason your doctor needs to know. The main reason to not tell your doctor is that more than likely he will note your file that you use steroids. If you ever switch your insurance company (which Im sure everyone does a few times through out their lifetime) they can and WILL view your medical files and WILL see you have used steroids... do you think they will insure somone who they know and has admitted to illegal drug use ?? The answer is no my friend... There is a chance your doc may not write it down in your file, but gambling insurance coverage for the rest of your life is certainly NOT worth it !!
StoneColdNTO
Administrator
Telling Your Doc, or Not Telling Your Doc?
Originally posted by Riker28 from Elitefitness. There are some things in here that I never thought about.
Telling Your Doc, or Not Telling Your Doc?
What one needs to consider in terms of disclosure of AS use to a Doctor, and its possible effects upon your future.
I have seen a few threads/comments about people asking whether or not to tell you Doc that you are ON, or have been ON.
There are some things to consider, and the REAL issue or concern is not really telling the Doc at all.
Your Medical Records Speak for you and your Doctor for Years.
The real issue is not as much whether you tell your Doc, or not ..... the real issue is whether or not any record of your having taken steroids, or having test results which indicate abnormalities which are commonly attributable to steroid use, shows up in your medical records.
The reason the medical records are the real problem, is that most of the time, when getting or changing medical insurance, the records are reviewed to see if they "want" to insure you. (This is a check for the sort of pre-existing-condition issue). If they find something very abnormal or something that is already a problem normally they will reject the new person from coverage.
Now when you talk to your Doc, if they do everything strictly "by the book", then:
… details of the conversation will be placed into your record as part of the information gathering. These are your history, symptoms and descriptions. If you describe symptoms and current conditions (like that fact that you are taking AS) then they will record this in your record. Also,
… if any medical tests are performed, the results are placed into your record as well.
For some Docs, anything you say, anything they do, any test results that come up, are ALL placed in your records - no excuses. They are strictly "by the book". This is the safest for them best in terms of their issues with liability, but it takes them a LOT of time, so many don’t go this far.
Some Docs are more liberal.
How do you find this out?
What kind of Doc do YOU have?
Well, ask your Doc. Ask him flat-out. Ask something like this (seriously).
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I understand that parts of our conversation are recorded by you into my medical record. I also understand that if any tests are performed that in most cases, the results are placed in the record as well. My issue is this - There are times that I would like to discuss things with you that I DO NOT want to be in my record. Now, with all due respect to you and your duties, I was wondering:
If I have a conversation with you, and I express that I do NOT want that conversation to be recorded or referenced in ANY manner in my record, can you honor that?
Also,
If any type of medical tests are performed on me, that may pertain to information that I do not wish to be entered into my records, is it also possible to NOT place those test results in my record? Meaning, is there a way to have tests performed anonymously so that if I have a "private" issue, and that requires that a test be performed, that we can do the test and see the results without them going into my record?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, BOTH of these issues are important to ask your Doc. And here is why.
The first issue is quite obvious. Lets say you tell your Doc that you have certain pains, or your kidneys hurt, or maybe your natural Test does not seem to be recovering, or your balls have shrunk and are taking a long time to get back to size … etc etc etc. And as part of you telling him all of the pertinent facts, you need to tell him that you have taken, or are currently taking, AS. Well, to give you a real diagnosis, and to SAFELY recommend a course of action (and maybe prescribe medicines) then the Doc needs to know that you were (or are) ON.
Well, if you tell him, and he records it, then it’s in your record.
And once there it is very very difficult to get anything removed. Trust me (there was even a Seinfeld episode about this .. LOL).
The second issue is the one most guys overlook. Let’s say you ask your Doc that first question, and he is fine with honoring your request for privacy. Cool. You tell him what’s up, what hurts (or whatever) and you tell him that you are (or were) ON. He understands (disagrees probably with what you did …) but he does not record those details into your records. Cool. You think you are in the clear. …
The Hidden Danger of Test Results
NOW HERE IS WHERE MOST GUYS GET INTO TROUBLE.
So maybe your Doc needs to have some tests performed. He takes blood and/or urine or whatever. He collects the sample, and PLACES YOUR NAME ON IT AND SENDS IT TO A LAB. Then the lab processes it and gets the results, which are presented/recorded with YOUR NAME ON IT. Then these results ARE PLACED INTO YOUR MEDICAL RECORDS.
Once those results are in your records, they are VERY VERY difficult to get out.
Now, if those test results sow terrible liver problems, or sky-high testosterone levels, or very high estrogen levels (for a man …… which may be causing gyno ….. ) etc, or anything else that tends to be "warning signs" that someone IS using AS, then if this goes into your records, its almost as if it says flat-out that you ARE on AS.
See the problem?
You may have a cool Doc, he may honor the fact that you do not want the conversation recorded. Fine, you tell him you are on Test and Fina, No problem. But you have some pains and he wants to run some tests. So he runs them. The tests (among other things ..) happen to show a Testosterone level of like 2500 (way way way way way beyond normal). OK, well, he looks at the results, he says you should be fine (he was worried about something else). You go home think all is cool. And now, your medical records have a history that shows that at SOME point your Testosterone levels were at 2500! Even though the Doc was cool, this is very incriminating data to have in your medical file.
Now, its not a legal problem per se, no one is going to bust you (in terms of like a criminal charge or anything) for having that in your medical record.
But, having that in your record is basically telling people that you DID use AS at some time.
Why could that be a problem?
Because some day, you may need to get new Medical Insurance.
And,
If your Medical Record does show that you had some very strange (attributable to AS) test results in the past, and you then try to get new Medical Coverage, then one of 2 scenarios is very likely:
1 - You get rejected for coverage. When getting new insurance, they will check over your current medical records. If they see anything like this, in some cases, they will NOT insure you.
2 - Maybe you get covered. Fine,. When changing onto new insurance, in many cases you are given a questionnaire where you are suppose to detail what your medical history is. Fine,. So maybe they did not check your Docs file, but they read YOUR statement of your history (you know, those long form where they list like every disease and you are supposed to check whether or not you have had it .. they list a bunch of medical problems …. You list whether or not you have had it , etc.). Now if you lie and say you did NOT ever use AS (I mean, who would admit to this on such a form ….) what can happen is that if you DO get approved to be covered and ever get sick, and if it gets costly, that’s when they will pour over your records. If they see the earlier test results (like the high Test levels) and then they see that on your form, you did NOT admit to this, then the insurance company will say you LIED on your application (true) and then they will have grounds to NOT cover you.
Is getting insurance or not - something that I should be worried about?
Now this may not be a huge problem for many people. If you work for a large corporation with a great group coverage plan, then rejection based on pre-existing conditions is FAR FAR less likely. The insurance company maybe has like 2000 people in that company that they are insuring, and statistically, there IS room for them to deal with a fewer high-risk patients. Plus the fact they the insurer wants the big contract SO bad, means that the chances of being rejected for insurance due to a pre-existing condition are much less if your employer has a LOT of people on the insurance plan. If the employer is small, or if you work for yourself, run a small business, are a consultant, etc etc etc, you are way out of luck - they will reject you in a heartbeat or charge you an astronomical sum.
Many guys will say "no big deal, I work at a big company" … but you never know. Some people DO get rejected regardless of the company (and imagine the insurance company telling your employer WHY). Maybe some day you will want to work for a small company, start a business, become a consultant ... who knows.
Maybe some day you will have a family, and this will really become an issue.
So, what is one to do?
Well, to NOT tell your Doctor, when there may be some critical medical issue that may be caused by - or made worse by AS use, is just dumb. And you may be threatening your health in the process.
A good thing to do is to ask your Doctor those questions I posed above (will he keep stuff private … and can or will he get anonymous test results ..) BEFORE a big problem comes up. Depending upon your answer, you now have information to work with,. Maybe you know that he will be fine with it. Maybe you know that you need to find a new Doc! Maybe you will find (the most common scenario) that he/she will honor a private conversation, but when it comes to test results, he will have to have a name attached to them.
With this knowledge, you will be in better shape to determine how YOU want things to proceed.
I hope this helps.
Originally posted by Riker28 from Elitefitness. There are some things in here that I never thought about.
Telling Your Doc, or Not Telling Your Doc?
What one needs to consider in terms of disclosure of AS use to a Doctor, and its possible effects upon your future.
I have seen a few threads/comments about people asking whether or not to tell you Doc that you are ON, or have been ON.
There are some things to consider, and the REAL issue or concern is not really telling the Doc at all.
Your Medical Records Speak for you and your Doctor for Years.
The real issue is not as much whether you tell your Doc, or not ..... the real issue is whether or not any record of your having taken steroids, or having test results which indicate abnormalities which are commonly attributable to steroid use, shows up in your medical records.
The reason the medical records are the real problem, is that most of the time, when getting or changing medical insurance, the records are reviewed to see if they "want" to insure you. (This is a check for the sort of pre-existing-condition issue). If they find something very abnormal or something that is already a problem normally they will reject the new person from coverage.
Now when you talk to your Doc, if they do everything strictly "by the book", then:
… details of the conversation will be placed into your record as part of the information gathering. These are your history, symptoms and descriptions. If you describe symptoms and current conditions (like that fact that you are taking AS) then they will record this in your record. Also,
… if any medical tests are performed, the results are placed into your record as well.
For some Docs, anything you say, anything they do, any test results that come up, are ALL placed in your records - no excuses. They are strictly "by the book". This is the safest for them best in terms of their issues with liability, but it takes them a LOT of time, so many don’t go this far.
Some Docs are more liberal.
How do you find this out?
What kind of Doc do YOU have?
Well, ask your Doc. Ask him flat-out. Ask something like this (seriously).
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I understand that parts of our conversation are recorded by you into my medical record. I also understand that if any tests are performed that in most cases, the results are placed in the record as well. My issue is this - There are times that I would like to discuss things with you that I DO NOT want to be in my record. Now, with all due respect to you and your duties, I was wondering:
If I have a conversation with you, and I express that I do NOT want that conversation to be recorded or referenced in ANY manner in my record, can you honor that?
Also,
If any type of medical tests are performed on me, that may pertain to information that I do not wish to be entered into my records, is it also possible to NOT place those test results in my record? Meaning, is there a way to have tests performed anonymously so that if I have a "private" issue, and that requires that a test be performed, that we can do the test and see the results without them going into my record?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, BOTH of these issues are important to ask your Doc. And here is why.
The first issue is quite obvious. Lets say you tell your Doc that you have certain pains, or your kidneys hurt, or maybe your natural Test does not seem to be recovering, or your balls have shrunk and are taking a long time to get back to size … etc etc etc. And as part of you telling him all of the pertinent facts, you need to tell him that you have taken, or are currently taking, AS. Well, to give you a real diagnosis, and to SAFELY recommend a course of action (and maybe prescribe medicines) then the Doc needs to know that you were (or are) ON.
Well, if you tell him, and he records it, then it’s in your record.
And once there it is very very difficult to get anything removed. Trust me (there was even a Seinfeld episode about this .. LOL).
The second issue is the one most guys overlook. Let’s say you ask your Doc that first question, and he is fine with honoring your request for privacy. Cool. You tell him what’s up, what hurts (or whatever) and you tell him that you are (or were) ON. He understands (disagrees probably with what you did …) but he does not record those details into your records. Cool. You think you are in the clear. …
The Hidden Danger of Test Results
NOW HERE IS WHERE MOST GUYS GET INTO TROUBLE.
So maybe your Doc needs to have some tests performed. He takes blood and/or urine or whatever. He collects the sample, and PLACES YOUR NAME ON IT AND SENDS IT TO A LAB. Then the lab processes it and gets the results, which are presented/recorded with YOUR NAME ON IT. Then these results ARE PLACED INTO YOUR MEDICAL RECORDS.
Once those results are in your records, they are VERY VERY difficult to get out.
Now, if those test results sow terrible liver problems, or sky-high testosterone levels, or very high estrogen levels (for a man …… which may be causing gyno ….. ) etc, or anything else that tends to be "warning signs" that someone IS using AS, then if this goes into your records, its almost as if it says flat-out that you ARE on AS.
See the problem?
You may have a cool Doc, he may honor the fact that you do not want the conversation recorded. Fine, you tell him you are on Test and Fina, No problem. But you have some pains and he wants to run some tests. So he runs them. The tests (among other things ..) happen to show a Testosterone level of like 2500 (way way way way way beyond normal). OK, well, he looks at the results, he says you should be fine (he was worried about something else). You go home think all is cool. And now, your medical records have a history that shows that at SOME point your Testosterone levels were at 2500! Even though the Doc was cool, this is very incriminating data to have in your medical file.
Now, its not a legal problem per se, no one is going to bust you (in terms of like a criminal charge or anything) for having that in your medical record.
But, having that in your record is basically telling people that you DID use AS at some time.
Why could that be a problem?
Because some day, you may need to get new Medical Insurance.
And,
If your Medical Record does show that you had some very strange (attributable to AS) test results in the past, and you then try to get new Medical Coverage, then one of 2 scenarios is very likely:
1 - You get rejected for coverage. When getting new insurance, they will check over your current medical records. If they see anything like this, in some cases, they will NOT insure you.
2 - Maybe you get covered. Fine,. When changing onto new insurance, in many cases you are given a questionnaire where you are suppose to detail what your medical history is. Fine,. So maybe they did not check your Docs file, but they read YOUR statement of your history (you know, those long form where they list like every disease and you are supposed to check whether or not you have had it .. they list a bunch of medical problems …. You list whether or not you have had it , etc.). Now if you lie and say you did NOT ever use AS (I mean, who would admit to this on such a form ….) what can happen is that if you DO get approved to be covered and ever get sick, and if it gets costly, that’s when they will pour over your records. If they see the earlier test results (like the high Test levels) and then they see that on your form, you did NOT admit to this, then the insurance company will say you LIED on your application (true) and then they will have grounds to NOT cover you.
Is getting insurance or not - something that I should be worried about?
Now this may not be a huge problem for many people. If you work for a large corporation with a great group coverage plan, then rejection based on pre-existing conditions is FAR FAR less likely. The insurance company maybe has like 2000 people in that company that they are insuring, and statistically, there IS room for them to deal with a fewer high-risk patients. Plus the fact they the insurer wants the big contract SO bad, means that the chances of being rejected for insurance due to a pre-existing condition are much less if your employer has a LOT of people on the insurance plan. If the employer is small, or if you work for yourself, run a small business, are a consultant, etc etc etc, you are way out of luck - they will reject you in a heartbeat or charge you an astronomical sum.
Many guys will say "no big deal, I work at a big company" … but you never know. Some people DO get rejected regardless of the company (and imagine the insurance company telling your employer WHY). Maybe some day you will want to work for a small company, start a business, become a consultant ... who knows.
Maybe some day you will have a family, and this will really become an issue.
So, what is one to do?
Well, to NOT tell your Doctor, when there may be some critical medical issue that may be caused by - or made worse by AS use, is just dumb. And you may be threatening your health in the process.
A good thing to do is to ask your Doctor those questions I posed above (will he keep stuff private … and can or will he get anonymous test results ..) BEFORE a big problem comes up. Depending upon your answer, you now have information to work with,. Maybe you know that he will be fine with it. Maybe you know that you need to find a new Doc! Maybe you will find (the most common scenario) that he/she will honor a private conversation, but when it comes to test results, he will have to have a name attached to them.
With this knowledge, you will be in better shape to determine how YOU want things to proceed.
I hope this helps.
JACKDAROIDER
New member
Blood work? Thats easy.....
Dr. Nadler in Manhatten, NY USA
Most of the older guys probably recognize this name as the gyno doctor. Yeah, he does plastic surgery for bodybuilders. Call his office and tell him streight out. If you can make it to his office, he'll do it personally, but if you are too far, he'll refer you to a doctor near to you that wont have a problem with it. Furthermore, this guy is a fellow bodybuilder, and understands your concerns and will recognize normal "elevated" levels. Good people. GIve him an e-mail.
www.drnadler.com
Another option are the anti-aging clinics. They do it discretely as well. You call them, are instructed to go to a local lab that works with their company. The local lab sends the info to the clinic and the doctors there will send the info to you. Cost like $50. Just look in any Musclemag, or Flex, and you'll see the ads. Or do a search on the web.....
Dr. Nadler in Manhatten, NY USA
Most of the older guys probably recognize this name as the gyno doctor. Yeah, he does plastic surgery for bodybuilders. Call his office and tell him streight out. If you can make it to his office, he'll do it personally, but if you are too far, he'll refer you to a doctor near to you that wont have a problem with it. Furthermore, this guy is a fellow bodybuilder, and understands your concerns and will recognize normal "elevated" levels. Good people. GIve him an e-mail.
www.drnadler.com
Another option are the anti-aging clinics. They do it discretely as well. You call them, are instructed to go to a local lab that works with their company. The local lab sends the info to the clinic and the doctors there will send the info to you. Cost like $50. Just look in any Musclemag, or Flex, and you'll see the ads. Or do a search on the web.....
StoneColdNTO
Administrator
gymphreak said:
Bwahahaha............"NO" ....not at all.
The $50 is for a consultation fee with an anti-aging clinic.
txbandit
New member
Tristram said:
That's a good idea. You need the blood work for liver and kidney functions, right? The doc doesn't have to know you stick yourself. The pro-hormones are orals and could be considered hard on your body and you're just a very cautious person. Sounds good, I may use that.
simpllyhuge
New member
jackdaroider are you saying that he does regular blood work done besides plastic surgery? what kind of doc is he?
I firmly believe you should find a doc you trust -- that's why I asked the question. And if your doc's cute and single like mine, then you don't need an excuse to go in for bloodwork, take off your pants, or cough for her hahaha! Yeah baby!
I'll try out some of these questions next time I'm in. I'm due for bloodwork in Feb., like in the last part of my freaking cycle, so I'll feel her out (wink) and see how she reacts.
Thanks for the advice. Great board.
I'll try out some of these questions next time I'm in. I'm due for bloodwork in Feb., like in the last part of my freaking cycle, so I'll feel her out (wink) and see how she reacts.
Thanks for the advice. Great board.
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