Drveejay11 said:TREV: thanks, I missed this!!!!
I'm still not satisfied. Nandi's position seems compelling and supported by the studies, but it flies in the face of conventional wisdom. What do you think?
Drveejay11 said:TREV: thanks, I missed this!!!!
Trevdog said:I'm still not satisfied. Nandi's position seems compelling and supported by the studies, but it flies in the face of conventional wisdom. What do you think?
ironmaster said:Sorry, I just saw this thread.
I have seen the research on this topic and I have discussed it with nandi in the past. Nandi looks at this the way a research scientist would, cause, well......that's what he is. I tend to see it more as a bodybuilder or athlete.
The endocrine system is incredibly complex. It abounds in redundant feedback defense mechanisms to keep everything in balence according to the grand design. Researchers usually study the impact of introducing an exogenous hormone on one of the sub-system defense mechanisms......and often the results appear negative. Exotest shuts down endotest, exoGH may cause insulin resistance, and so on.
Intead, bodybuilders and athletes are interested in knowing how to overcome the defenses as a whole, in order to achieve maximum lean muscle mass, athletic endurance and strength. Show me a study of elite bodybuilders using BIG doses of steroids, GH, insulin and T3. Well, there are none, but I don't need a study to know that today's pro's are the biggest and most ripped men to ever walk the planet......using just such a stack.
So yes, I do believe that exoGH can cause mild hypothyroidism in some folks, and I do think that exoGH and T3 is catabolic.....but I don't really care, cause I would not use just those 2 hormones alone. I'm always going to recommend using test and an oral like anavar with GH, and moderate insulin doses if insulin resistance becomes an issue (or perhaps an insulin sensitising drug), and/or a thyroid med if hypothyroidism is present. Not everyone has problems that require all this. I have rarely felt the need to use T3, with or without GH, to stay lean.
I'm results oriented, and each individual needs to experiment a little with his/her own system to find out what works best for them. You will never make it to the gym if you try to put it all together from the research.
Drveejay.....yet another great thread starter. You are really good at this........and too modest to show all your knowledge.
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hooker said: