What are the pro's doing?

[The Ogre]

Lets say that I had a flawless diet, a perfect training regimen, and I was in line to be the next Worlds Strongest Man.

How much gear would I be using?

Would I cycle?

If I did cycle what would the off-cycle look like?

I can't seem to find the info Im looking for. All I read on this site is "500mg test E weekly"

Something tells me Derek Poundstone didn't get to where he is by cycling 500 test/week.

 

[TonySuicideKing]

Lets say that I had a flawless diet, a perfect training regimen, and I was in line to be the next Worlds Strongest Man.

How much gear would I be using?

Would I cycle?

If I did cycle what would the off-cycle look like?

I can't seem to find the info Im looking for. All I read on this site is "500mg test E weekly"

Something tells me Derek Poundstone didn't get to where he is by cycling 500 test/week.

Its called taking it easy. And warming yourself up to the intensity you could/will be enduring. You crawl before you walk, unless you were one of those miracle babies who jumped right out of the vagina doing cartwheels and somersaults LOL

 

[DADAWG]

Lets say that I had a flawless diet, a perfect training regimen, and I was in line to be the next Worlds Strongest Man.

How much gear would I be using?

Would I cycle?

If I did cycle what would the off-cycle look like?

I can't seem to find the info Im looking for. All I read on this site is "500mg test E weekly"

Something tells me Derek Poundstone didn't get to where he is by cycling 500 test/week.

you have a better chance of winning the lottery than you do of finding out the REAL cycle info from a top level strongman , powerlifter , or bodybuilder. they arent going to give out their secrets.

 

[trtgiant]

you have a better chance of winning the lottery than you do of finding out the REAL cycle info from a top level strongman , powerlifter , or bodybuilder. they arent going to give out their secrets.

they will if you hire them as your coach, at least some of them will. But its kind of a waste of your money if you are paying to be trained by a top level athelete and you can't get 350 lbs over your head.

 

[barrysanders]

they will if you hire them as your coach, at least some of them will. But its kind of a waste of your money if you are paying to be trained by a top level athelete and you can't get 350 lbs over your head.

G'luck with that.

 

[gorillaglue]

What are the pro's doing?

Sleeping 3 times a day, pinning something 10 times a day, and complaining about limp dick-itis from being on a 500 week cycle until they retire to testosterone replacement therapy (TRT)? Of course, it would be bad to get a boner on stage wearing those European man thongs and being surrounded by other scantily clad dudes, so maybe that is desirable.

 

[TonySuicideKing]

What are the pro's doing?

Sleeping 3 times a day, pinning something 10 times a day, and complaining about limp dick-itis from being on a 500 week cycle until they retire to testosterone replacement therapy (TRT)? Of course, it would be bad to get a boner on stage wearing those European man thongs and being surrounded by other scantily clad dudes, so maybe that is desirable.

HEEEELLLLLLS YEAH!!!!!!

 

[stang50]

This is a million dollar question. Rumors leak out here and there but it's hard to say. I don't think well ever truly know what their cycles look like. I do know that I don't make enough in a year to afford what they do and when u work a 40+ hour week it's really hard to get to that point.

 

[Diesel Gear]

I think we'll all eagerly await the answer on this thread... the waiting is killing me.

 

[snigg]

Inside The World of Professional Bodybuilding

"When my guys tell you it costs more than $25,000 to get ready for a big contest, do you think they’re talking about pasta?"

—Wayne Demilia, President of the International Federation of Body Builders (IFBB)

As quoted from the New York Times May 13, 2001

The Drug Cycle of an IFBB Professional Bodybuilder

As the following drug cycle commenced, our interviewee was 14 weeks out from the world’s most prestigious bodybuilding event, the Mr. Olympia. Upon beginning this cycle he weighed a whopping 280 pounds. Due to the possibility that he could be identified, his contest weight and his placement at the event will not be published. Below is his cycle as it was given to me (please see the drug guide at the end of the article for a brief explanation of the drugs used).

Week 14

400 mg/wk Testosterone [specific ester name not given]

200 mg/wk methenolone enanthate

25 mg/day methandrostenolone

Total weekly androgen dose: 775 mg


Week 13

400 mg/wk Testosterone [specific ester name not given]

200 mg/wk methenolone enanthate

25 mg/day methandrostenolone

0.70 mg/day tiratricol

3 IU growth hormone M, W, F

Total weekly androgen dose: 775 mg


Week 12

300 mg/wk Testosterone [specific ester name not given]

300 mg/wk methenolone enanthate

25 mg/day methandrostenolone

0.70 mg/day tiratricol

3 IU growth hormone M, W, F

Total weekly androgen dose: 775 mg


Week 11

300 mg/wk Testosterone [specific ester name not given]

300 mg/wk methenolone enanthate

25 mg/day methandrostenolone

0.70 mg/day tiratricol

3 IU growth hormone administered M, W, F

Total weekly androgen dose: 775 mg


Week 10

200 mg/wk Testosterone [specific ester name not given]

400 mg/wk methenolone enanthate

25 mg/day methandrostenolone

0.70 mg/day tiratricol

3 IU growth hormone administered M, W, F

Total weekly androgen dose: 775 mg


Week 9

152 mg/wk trenbolone hexahydrobenzylcarbonate

200 mg/wk nandrolone decanoate

200 mg/wk methenolone enanthate

200 mg/wk dromostanolone

1.05 mg/day tiratricol

3 IU growth hormone, change to daily injections here until Mr. Olympia

Total weekly androgen dose: 752 mg


Week 8

152 mg/wk trenbolone hexahydrobenzylcarbonate

200 mg/wk nandrolone decanoate

200 mg/wk dromostanolone

200 mg/wk methenolone enanthate

3 IU/day growth hormone

1.05 mg/day tiratricol

Total weekly androgen dose: 752 mg


Week 7

152 mg/wk trenbolone hexahydrobenzylcarbonate

200 mg/wk nandrolone decanoate

200 mg/wk dromostanolone

200 mg/wk methenolone enanthate

4 IU/day growth hormone

1.05 mg/day tiratricol

Begin alternating daily dose of 30 mcg clenbuterol and 100 mg ephedrine (i.e. one day C, next day E)

Total weekly androgen dose: 752 mg


Week 6

100 mg Testosterone suspension administered twice per week

100 mg injectable stanzozolol administered three times per week

228 mg/wk trenbolone hexahydrobenzylcarbonate

200 mg/wk dromostanolone

5 IU/day growth hormone

1.05 mg/day tiratricol

Alternating daily dose of 30 mcg clenbuterol or 100 mg ephedrine (i.e. one day C, next day E)

25 mg/day oxandrolone

Local injections with formyldienolone begin here until Mr. Olympia (upper chest, biceps, and side delts)

Total weekly androgen dose: 1,103 mg*


Week 5

50 mg nandrolone phenpropionate administered twice per week

100 mg Testosterone suspension administered twice per week

100 mg injectable stanzozolol administered three times per week

228 mg/wk trenbolone hexahydrobenzylcarbonate

200 mg/wk dromostanolone

5 IU/day growth hormone

1.05 mg/day tiratricol

Alternating daily dose of 30 mcg clenbuterol or 100 mg ephedrine (i.e. one day C, next day E)

25 mg/day oxandrolone

Local injections with formyldienolone (upper chest, biceps, side delts)

Total weekly androgen dose: 1,203 mg*


Week 4

100 mg nandrolone phenpropionate administered three times per week

200 mg/wk dromostanolone

100 mg Testosterone suspension administered three times per week

100 mg injectable stanozolol administered three times per week

1.05 mg/day tiratricol

Alternating daily dose of 30 mcg clenbuterol or 100 mg ephedrine (i.e. one day C, next day E)

25 mg/day oxandrolone

5 IU/day growth hormone

Local injections with formyldienolone (upper chest, biceps, side delts)

500 mg/day testolactone

500 mg/day tolbutamide

100 mg/day mesterolone

Total weekly androgen dose: 1,975 mg*


Week 3

100 mg nandrolone phenpropionate administered three times per week

200 mg/wk dromostanolone

100 mg Testosterone suspension administered three times per week

100 mg injectable stanozolol administered three times per week

1.05 mg/day tiratricol

Alternating daily dose of 30 mcg clenbuterol and 100 mg ephedrine (i.e. one day C, next day E)

25 mg/day oxandrolone

5 IU/day growth hormone

Local injections with formyldienolone (upper chest, biceps, side delts)

500 mg/day testolactone

500 mg/day tolbutamide

100 mg/day mesterolone

Total weekly androgen dose: 1,975 mg*


Week 2

50 mg nandrolone phenpropionate administered twice per week

100 mg/day mesterolone

1.05 mg/day tiratricol

100 mg injectable stanozolol administered three times per week

100 mg/day Testosterone suspension

600 mg/day testolactone

500 mg/day tolbutamide

750 mg/day aminoglutethimide

Alternating daily dose of 30 mcg clenbuterol or 100 mg ephedrine (i.e. one day C, next day E)

25 mg/day oxandrolone

5 IU/day growth hormone (GH stops this week)

Local injections with formyldienolone (upper chest, biceps, side delts)

Total weekly androgen dose: 1,975 mg*


Week Preceding the Mr. Olympia

50 mg nandrolone phenpropionate administered twice this week

100 mg/day mesterolone

100 mg injectable stanozolol Monday, Wednesday, and Friday

100 mg Testosterone suspension Saturday, Tuesday, Thursday

600 mg/day testolactone

500 mg/day tolbutamide

25 mg/day oxandrolone

Alternating daily dose of 30 mcg clenbuterol or 100 mg ephedrine (i.e. one day C, next day E)

750 mg/day aminoglutethimide

Local injections with formyldienolone (upper chest, biceps, side delts)

Total weekly androgen dose: 1,575 mg*

Total androgen dose for 14 week cycle: 15,937 mg*

*Androgen totals do not include site injections of formyldienolone or oral administration of testolactone.

 

[snigg]

Let's take a look at the steroid use timeline.

1960's: The common vogue during this time period was amazingly simplistic and EXTREMELY conservative. Guys like Scott, Howorth, Ortiz, Draper, etc....would literally debate over whether they should up the dosage of D-BOL from 3 to 4 pills per day!! It was only in the latter part of the 60's that Deca was added to the D-bol. Typically during this era the bodybuilders would stay on maybe 4 months out of the year and take the remaining 8 months off.

1970's: The D-Bol and Deca was still the preferred stack in the early part of the 70's and in fact most bodybuilders would use this stack up to a show only dropping the D-Bol 3 days before the contest. As the decade progressed other stacks were experimented with such as Anadrol/Anavar....Deca/Winstrol...and Arnold's personal favorite: Primobolan Acetate and D-Bol. Towards the end of the decade thyroid drugs were just starting to be experimented with for that ultra-ripped look. Typically during this era in bodybuilding the bodybuilders would stay on for maybe 6 months out of the year max and have at least 6 months clean.

1980's: Ah...the good ole days. Any steroid you wanted could be obtained for ridiculously low prices...for example 100 D-Bol $8.00, 2ml of Deca $7.00. In the very early part of the decade, bodybuilders were still conservative in their doses and often stayed off for extended periods of time, but by the mid 80's bodybuilders NEVER came off and developed very sophisticated stacks. Here is an example of a typical off-season stack for an 80's bodybuilder:

TEST: 400MG PER WEEK

DECA: 400MG PER WEEK

PARABOLAN: 3 AMPS PER WEEK

D-BOL: 10 TABS PER DAY

ANADROL: 2 TABS PER DAY

NOVLADEX: 1 TAB PER DAY

CYTOMEL: 50MCG PER DAY

Pre contest would change slightly and look like this:

FINAJECT: 30MG PER DAY

WINSTROL: 50MG PER DAY

PRIMOBOLAN ACETATE: 20MG PER DAY

ANAVAR: 20MG PER DAY

PROVIRON: 50MG PER DAY

NOVLADEX: 20MG PER DAY

CRESCORMIN (GH)-4IU PER DAY

THIOMUCASE (INJECTION) ONCE PER DAY FOR THE LAST 2 WEEKS

CYTOMEL: 75MG PER DAY

ALDACTONE/LASIX: LAST 4 DAYS

The 80's also saw the introduction in so called designer drugs such as the East German "BOLASTERONE" which was actually made in California...it consisted of Anadrol-50, test proprionate, methandriol, anavar and sustenon in an H2O suspension. Also as the decade came to a close, some bodybuilders started to experiment with insulin and insulin mimickers.

The 1990's-present: Well guys pretty much use what they can get their hands on in LARGE doses with an array of anti-estrogens. Typically an offseason stack would last for 16 weeks and then have a 3-4 week break period. It would look like this:

PHASE 1:

1-2 GRAMS OF TEST PER WEEK

1-2 GRAMS OF DECA PER WEEK

50-100MG OF D-BOL PER DAY

OR

150MG OF ANADROL PER DAY

1 ARIMIDEX PER DAY

3 TESLAC

4IU OF GH PER DAY OR MORE

15-20 IU OF SHORT ACTING INSULIN AFTER TRAINING

PHASE 2:

50-100MG OF WINSTROL PER DAY

30-50MG OF HALOTESTIN PER DAY

100MG OF TEST PROPRIONATE PER DAY

40MG OF FINAPLEX PER DAY

1-2 ANADROL PER DAY

1 ARIMIDEX PER DAY

6 TESLAC PER DAY

2 NOVLADEX PER DAY

4 CYTOMEL PER DAY

As you can see by looking at the above course, it is divided into long acting and short acting phases.

Pre contest varies a lot and everyone uses as much GH as they can afford with as much CLENBUTEROL as they can tolerate along with a boatload of anti-estrogens. Most guys would prefer PARABOLAN AND ANAVAR...but must use what they can readily get. From the mid 1990's on, Diuretic use has become a science since a increasingly larger number of Pro shows are testing for them, so they vary a great deal.

Well there you have it for what it's worth, a brief history of steroid use in bodybuilding over the last 40 years. If nothing else, reading this information should give you a new found respect for guys like Arnold, Mentzer and Sergio. They used small amounts relatively speaking by the standards of the 80's and 90's yet built amazingly rugged and dense physiques. They had sub-par nutritional practices as well and nothing but dumbbells and barbells at their disposal. Just thinking of what Sergio Olivia might look like if he followed the practices of 90's bodybuilders is enough to send chills up mine spine. I'm thinking a 5'9'' 280lbs. freak with 23 inch arms and 30 inch waist 60 inch chest, 35 inch quads and 22 inch calves all in completely rock hard shredded condition. Until next time...Peace

 

[snigg]

these are just things i found doing a quick google search. i dont think you're gonna find jay cutler's cycle leading up to the Olympia but you can be sure it's pretty heavy.

 

[TonySuicideKing]

sweet baby jesus

 

[drewbolic]

Inside The World of Professional Bodybuilding

"When my guys tell you it costs more than $25,000 to get ready for a big contest, do you think they’re talking about pasta?"

—Wayne Demilia, President of the International Federation of Body Builders (IFBB)

As quoted from the New York Times May 13, 2001

The Drug Cycle of an IFBB Professional Bodybuilder

As the following drug cycle commenced, our interviewee was 14 weeks out from the world’s most prestigious bodybuilding event, the Mr. Olympia. Upon beginning this cycle he weighed a whopping 280 pounds. Due to the possibility that he could be identified, his contest weight and his placement at the event will not be published. Below is his cycle as it was given to me (please see the drug guide at the end of the article for a brief explanation of the drugs used).

Week 14

400 mg/wk Testosterone [specific ester name not given]

200 mg/wk methenolone enanthate

25 mg/day methandrostenolone

Total weekly androgen dose: 775 mg


Week 13

400 mg/wk Testosterone [specific ester name not given]

200 mg/wk methenolone enanthate

25 mg/day methandrostenolone

0.70 mg/day tiratricol

3 IU growth hormone M, W, F

Total weekly androgen dose: 775 mg


Week 12

300 mg/wk Testosterone [specific ester name not given]

300 mg/wk methenolone enanthate

25 mg/day methandrostenolone

0.70 mg/day tiratricol

3 IU growth hormone M, W, F

Total weekly androgen dose: 775 mg


Week 11

300 mg/wk Testosterone [specific ester name not given]

300 mg/wk methenolone enanthate

25 mg/day methandrostenolone

0.70 mg/day tiratricol

3 IU growth hormone administered M, W, F

Total weekly androgen dose: 775 mg


Week 10

200 mg/wk Testosterone [specific ester name not given]

400 mg/wk methenolone enanthate

25 mg/day methandrostenolone

0.70 mg/day tiratricol

3 IU growth hormone administered M, W, F

Total weekly androgen dose: 775 mg


Week 9

152 mg/wk trenbolone hexahydrobenzylcarbonate

200 mg/wk nandrolone decanoate

200 mg/wk methenolone enanthate

200 mg/wk dromostanolone

1.05 mg/day tiratricol

3 IU growth hormone, change to daily injections here until Mr. Olympia

Total weekly androgen dose: 752 mg


Week 8

152 mg/wk trenbolone hexahydrobenzylcarbonate

200 mg/wk nandrolone decanoate

200 mg/wk dromostanolone

200 mg/wk methenolone enanthate

3 IU/day growth hormone

1.05 mg/day tiratricol

Total weekly androgen dose: 752 mg


Week 7

152 mg/wk trenbolone hexahydrobenzylcarbonate

200 mg/wk nandrolone decanoate

200 mg/wk dromostanolone

200 mg/wk methenolone enanthate

4 IU/day growth hormone

1.05 mg/day tiratricol

Begin alternating daily dose of 30 mcg clenbuterol and 100 mg ephedrine (i.e. one day C, next day E)

Total weekly androgen dose: 752 mg


Week 6

100 mg Testosterone suspension administered twice per week

100 mg injectable stanzozolol administered three times per week

228 mg/wk trenbolone hexahydrobenzylcarbonate

200 mg/wk dromostanolone

5 IU/day growth hormone

1.05 mg/day tiratricol

Alternating daily dose of 30 mcg clenbuterol or 100 mg ephedrine (i.e. one day C, next day E)

25 mg/day oxandrolone

Local injections with formyldienolone begin here until Mr. Olympia (upper chest, biceps, and side delts)

Total weekly androgen dose: 1,103 mg*


Week 5

50 mg nandrolone phenpropionate administered twice per week

100 mg Testosterone suspension administered twice per week

100 mg injectable stanzozolol administered three times per week

228 mg/wk trenbolone hexahydrobenzylcarbonate

200 mg/wk dromostanolone

5 IU/day growth hormone

1.05 mg/day tiratricol

Alternating daily dose of 30 mcg clenbuterol or 100 mg ephedrine (i.e. one day C, next day E)

25 mg/day oxandrolone

Local injections with formyldienolone (upper chest, biceps, side delts)

Total weekly androgen dose: 1,203 mg*


Week 4

100 mg nandrolone phenpropionate administered three times per week

200 mg/wk dromostanolone

100 mg Testosterone suspension administered three times per week

100 mg injectable stanozolol administered three times per week

1.05 mg/day tiratricol

Alternating daily dose of 30 mcg clenbuterol or 100 mg ephedrine (i.e. one day C, next day E)

25 mg/day oxandrolone

5 IU/day growth hormone

Local injections with formyldienolone (upper chest, biceps, side delts)

500 mg/day testolactone

500 mg/day tolbutamide

100 mg/day mesterolone

Total weekly androgen dose: 1,975 mg*


Week 3

100 mg nandrolone phenpropionate administered three times per week

200 mg/wk dromostanolone

100 mg Testosterone suspension administered three times per week

100 mg injectable stanozolol administered three times per week

1.05 mg/day tiratricol

Alternating daily dose of 30 mcg clenbuterol and 100 mg ephedrine (i.e. one day C, next day E)

25 mg/day oxandrolone

5 IU/day growth hormone

Local injections with formyldienolone (upper chest, biceps, side delts)

500 mg/day testolactone

500 mg/day tolbutamide

100 mg/day mesterolone

Total weekly androgen dose: 1,975 mg*


Week 2

50 mg nandrolone phenpropionate administered twice per week

100 mg/day mesterolone

1.05 mg/day tiratricol

100 mg injectable stanozolol administered three times per week

100 mg/day Testosterone suspension

600 mg/day testolactone

500 mg/day tolbutamide

750 mg/day aminoglutethimide

Alternating daily dose of 30 mcg clenbuterol or 100 mg ephedrine (i.e. one day C, next day E)

25 mg/day oxandrolone

5 IU/day growth hormone (GH stops this week)

Local injections with formyldienolone (upper chest, biceps, side delts)

Total weekly androgen dose: 1,975 mg*


Week Preceding the Mr. Olympia

50 mg nandrolone phenpropionate administered twice this week

100 mg/day mesterolone

100 mg injectable stanozolol Monday, Wednesday, and Friday

100 mg Testosterone suspension Saturday, Tuesday, Thursday

600 mg/day testolactone

500 mg/day tolbutamide

25 mg/day oxandrolone

Alternating daily dose of 30 mcg clenbuterol or 100 mg ephedrine (i.e. one day C, next day E)

750 mg/day aminoglutethimide

Local injections with formyldienolone (upper chest, biceps, side delts)

Total weekly androgen dose: 1,575 mg*

Total androgen dose for 14 week cycle: 15,937 mg*

*Androgen totals do not include site injections of formyldienolone or oral administration of testolactone.

well this might give you an idea im sure this is all out dated and does not resemble anything that cuttler or other top guys are doing today.

 

[numba1scrapper]

I agree with Sniggs second post, A long time ago I also wondered this, to the point where it was driving me crazy.. I didnt find Jay Cutler or Ronnie Colemans cycle but I did find 1 of Hidetada Yamagishis cycles after I did much research about him after he was arrested.

I dont remember the cycle to be honest but I remember it was like 5-6 compounds which is nuts, at retarded doses.. I remember two of the compounds being Test and Anadrol.. I believe the test was dosed at 1,800mg per week and the Anadrol was like 300-400mg a day or some rediculous shit like that.

 

[TonySuicideKing]

I agree with Sniggs second post, A long time ago I also wondered this, to the point where it was driving me crazy.. I didnt find Jay Cutler or Ronnie Colemans cycle but I did find 1 of Hidetada Yamagishis cycles after I did much research about him after he was arrested.

I dont remember the cycle to be honest but I remember it was like 5-6 compounds which is nuts, at retarded doses.. I remember two of the compounds being Test and Anadrol.. I believe the test was dosed at 1,800mg per week and the Anadrol was like 300-400mg a day or some rediculous shit like that.

GODDAMN THATS A BIG JAP!!!! lol

 

[Rougen123]

I agree with Sniggs second post, A long time ago I also wondered this, to the point where it was driving me crazy.. I didnt find Jay Cutler or Ronnie Colemans cycle but I did find 1 of Hidetada Yamagishis cycles after I did much research about him after he was arrested.

I dont remember the cycle to be honest but I remember it was like 5-6 compounds which is nuts, at retarded doses.. I remember two of the compounds being Test and Anadrol.. I believe the test was dosed at 1,800mg per week and the Anadrol was like 300-400mg a day or some rediculous shit like that.

I'm assuming for AAS issues? Anyone know how pro's get out of shit like that to begin with?

 

[RJ]

Who gives a shit what they do?

1. 99.9% of you will never be able to attain the physiques those guys have. Those guys can look like that because they have great genetics and use a shit ton of drugs.

2. Even if you did, you would be relying mainly on the drugs, as you can see by that ridiculous cycle above (if its a real cycle) just like most of these guys.

3. Have you seen 99.9% of pro BBers 10 years after they retire? They look like shit, or are much much smaller than they ever were. Again, a physique built on drugs. Some might have a decent build afterwards, but they are much smaller, or look like shit.

A physique built on drugs is what most recreational AAS users unfortunately have. That is why we see so much yo-yoing with guys we know who juice. They rely on the drugs, instead of training and diet, and afterwards, they are weak or look like shit, or both.

The key for all of you should be to:

1. Grow the most you can naturally (for most of you this means >200lbs).
2. Focus on your diet and training always
3. AAS should be used as a tool... not a crutch, once you've truly reached a plateau
4. Maintain a solid physique during and after PCT until your natty test is recovered (the only true way to measure if you're doing things right)
5. Stop worrying about what everyone else is doing and focus on yourself.


Most will never follow this and will end up back where they started or worse.

 

[1134bigo]

Who gives a shit what they do?

1. 99.9% of you will never be able to attain the physiques those guys have. Those guys can look like that because they have great genetics and use a shit ton of drugs.

2. Even if you did, you would be relying mainly on the drugs, as you can see by that ridiculous cycle above (if its a real cycle) just like most of these guys.

3. Have you seen 99.9% of pro BBers 10 years after they retire? They look like shit, or are much much smaller than they ever were. Again, a physique built on drugs. Some might have a decent build afterwards, but they are much smaller, or look like shit.

A physique built on drugs is what most recreational AAS users unfortunately have. That is why we see so much yo-yoing with guys we know who juice. They rely on the drugs, instead of training and diet, and afterwards, they are weak or look like shit, or both.

The key for all of you should be to:

1. Grow the most you can naturally (for most of you this means >200lbs).
2. Focus on your diet and training always
3. AAS should be used as a tool... not a crutch, once you've truly reached a plateau
4. Maintain a solid physique during and after PCT until your natty test is recovered (the only true way to measure if you're doing things right)
5. Stop worrying about what everyone else is doing and focus on yourself.


Most will never follow this and will end up back where they started or worse.

i agree with you there bro...

 

[scotimusprime]

i agree with RJ too,

sounds like th OP wants a shortcut. Of course all you read on this site is 50mg/wk test only because BEGINNERS come here and we dont want them starting off on cycles like the one snigg posted above. They will look at jay cutler, then that cycle, and if they can afford it, go straight into something like that because they will figure"if it worked for him, itll work for me."