3J
Super Moderator
yea i know what youre saying rip and its not that i disagree with you completely..
just remember, we though the world was flat once lol...
What is the board's take on diet sodas?
- Thread starter Dirkmcgirk
- Start date
yea i know what youre saying rip and its not that i disagree with you completely..
just remember, we though the world was flat once lol...
3J
Super Moderator
this study doesn't seem like it was done in a very controlled environment...
Mrrippedzilla
MIA - PM only
That was kind of the whole point lol.
They told obese, sedentary, already unhealthy individuals to keep the same diet as usual but add in the soda/diet soda/water/milk only. The idea was to mimic what would happen in real life.
1L of regular soda per day clearly had a negative impact on the liver as well as triglyceride levels, reduced insulin sensitivity, etc. Diet soda on the other hand had no negative impact on any of the parameters measured.
Which raises the question:
If high intake of dietary drinks had no negative impact on an already unhealthy group of individuals, why should we assume that it will have a negative impact in active, healthy individuals like most people on this site?
KW1776
New member
I have to agree. Anything I've seen indicates that they pose no real risk. That doesn't mean, however, that there may not be something we just haven't discovered yet.
All things being equal, I'm definitely not worried about the risks (of which there seems to be minimal) associated with diet soda considering I'm injecting myself with things like nandrolone and trenbolone.
cybrsage
New member
It's the ONLY thing I can have from Pizza Hut right now. The naked ones are less, but they're often dried out IME.
There can't be an insulin spike without detecting glucose. Just because aspartame and other artificial sweeteners taste sweet, doesn't mean the body really thinks it is.
I have to clear up that myth ALL the time. I'm a diabetic that keeps their glucose in very strict control, so if diet drinks were doing ANYTHING sinister in that regard, I'd know.
It's hyperglycemia (high blood sugar) that makes you crave more btw, not low. Not picking on you, just wanted to clarify that.
I did not know that. And yes, as a diabetic you are the resident expert on it.
halfwit
I like turtles.
An insulin spike would make you hypoglycemic, as insulin is what shuttles glucose into your cells for use. Oddly, when we eat too much sugar, we do get both hypo and hyperglycemic as the body adjusts.
I'm on lunch break, but here's a good one about satiety. It does discuss glucose and insulin, but unfortunately they don't isolate the real sugars from the artificial.
Effects of stevia, aspartame, and sucrose on food intake, satiety, and postprandial glucose and insulin levels
bigben66
New member
Let's put this shit into perspective here guys....
Most of us are jacking up 100mg of Tren every day - and we're worried about whether the diet soda is going to kill us!
It's like me waking up after a heavy night on the beer, feeling shite, and saying "It must have been something I ate!"
Most of us are jacking up 100mg of Tren every day - and we're worried about whether the diet soda is going to kill us!
It's like me waking up after a heavy night on the beer, feeling shite, and saying "It must have been something I ate!"
Mrrippedzilla
MIA - PM only
Southernfish
New member
Nooooo doubt.
And hey I dont care what either one does. Im gonna have a diet or regular soda or even a beer or two whenever I feel like it!!! How ya like them apples
Dreaded Pirate Roberts
Administrator
I can't drink enough water to keep hydrated. I need flavor. I use stevia and pure lemon and diet soda and a ton of raw milk. The sweeteners and artifical flavoring in most diet soda is not good for you.
anzel
New member
I was about to completely dissect that article but then I remembered how Mercola is about as reliable as Dr Oz:
Joseph Mercola D.O. - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com
FDA Orders Dr. Joseph Mercola to Stop Illegal Claims
When the government has taken action against you for making bullshit claims and your listed on a site called quackwatch...forgive me if I don't take anything you say seriously.
Strong recommend to completely ignore that site
Yes good point, But quack watch also blasts using DHEA, pregnenlone and other supplements as well as anti ageing medicine (safety of using testosteron) . Also blasts carb restricted diets.
Mrrippedzilla
MIA - PM only
I'm not making the decision to ignore Mercola based on that site, I'm making that decision based off a retarded article he wrote claiming keto diets can help prevent cancer and is "optimal" for health.
I know for a fact that keto diets impair immune function, anaerobic performance, can dehydrate joints and cause mental fatigue yet this fucker is claiming its the best diet for health and can prevent cancer...
That was the moment I realised this dude was just another extremist (100% natural cures brah) and I knew much more about nutrition than him - Dr or not
MadLuke
New member
The chemist in me chimes in......
The biggest associative aspect with artificial sweeteners is the desensitzing of taste buds to sugars. When your body becomes used to something that is up to 10,000x sweeter per volume than Glucose, Dextrose and Fructose, things sweetened by natural sugars taste less sweet.
The danger for diabetics and people at risk for diabetes is if they are desensitized to sweet tastes, they will consume more sugar than they expect, assuming they dont watch labels. The same effect can be accomplished with real sugars if the consumer simply eats too much of them on a regular basis; its becomes a simple tolerance at that point.
Another risk from artificial sweeteners is how they can impact sodium levels in the body. Sodas in general have alot of sodium, but without the calories from sugar to balance ********* impact of the sodium, it turns diet sodas into flavored salt water. Not horrible, but not good on a daily basis or in large quantities. Long term impacts of other effects of diet sodas is still being studied.
Does all that make sense?
The biggest associative aspect with artificial sweeteners is the desensitzing of taste buds to sugars. When your body becomes used to something that is up to 10,000x sweeter per volume than Glucose, Dextrose and Fructose, things sweetened by natural sugars taste less sweet.
The danger for diabetics and people at risk for diabetes is if they are desensitized to sweet tastes, they will consume more sugar than they expect, assuming they dont watch labels. The same effect can be accomplished with real sugars if the consumer simply eats too much of them on a regular basis; its becomes a simple tolerance at that point.
Another risk from artificial sweeteners is how they can impact sodium levels in the body. Sodas in general have alot of sodium, but without the calories from sugar to balance ********* impact of the sodium, it turns diet sodas into flavored salt water. Not horrible, but not good on a daily basis or in large quantities. Long term impacts of other effects of diet sodas is still being studied.
Does all that make sense?
Megatron28
Moderator
Do you have any studies showing that Artificial Sweeteners desensitize human taste buds? I did a search and couldn't find anything conclusive.
I found the following study that is currently enrolling people.
The Effect of Artificial Sweeteners (AFS) on Sweetness Sensitivity, Preference and Brain Response in Adolescents
I found the following study which concludes that sweetness taste sensitivity is not affected in pre-diabetics.
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/832538
As for sodium, a diet coke only has about 40mg of sodium which is about 2% of the RDA. I really can't see how this can be a serious concern in a healthy or semi-healthy individual.
MadLuke
New member
**Tried to write this up on my phone, didn't work**
The most common artificial sweetener found, and bought in stores, is Splenda, thanks to its marketing campaign. But what you are actually getting in each little packet is 1 part Sucralose, and 600 parts *filler*. To achieve this level of sweetness, they combine Glucose with Chlorine, Phosgene, and several "proprietary" chemical soups, to create this. Now I'm not commenting on the process, its simply a catalyst, reaction, filter, distill process, of which there are thousands of products we use daily, your Toothbrush likely has two such materials in it, which the process of making Polyurethane and Polyethylene is toxic.
The latest form of Aspartame, called Neotame, is 13,000x sweeter than sugar, and they are looking at replacing aspartame with it.
discovermagazine.com/2005/aug/chemistry-of-artificial-sweeteners
That article has a good explanation of the Chemistry involved. But there is also a simple experiment that one can run to test how sweetness impacts ones sense of taste. Take two people, give them a slice of cake/coke(real sugar)/piece of candy(real sugar), and have them mark down how sweet it is to them on a scale 1-100. Now have one cut as much sugar from his diet as possible for 2 weeks, while the other doesn't cut sugar. After 2 weeks, give them both the same test, and write down how sweet it is. Now have the one cutting sugar do so again for 2 more weeks, while the other Increases sugar intake for 2 weeks; then run the test a third time. This is a adaptation on a crave/addition/deprivation experiment, it was first used on Morphine addicts in the early 1900s.
It can also be done on a micro scale in a way that takes 5 minutes. Make something that is a "sweet" thing for you. Now get a some regular sugar, around a tablespoon, and mix it into a 6oz glass of water. Take a sip/bite of your sweet treat, hold it in your mouth, and get the flavor, write down on a scale of 1-100 where it is. Now do the same with the glass of water, multiple times, writing down how "sweet" it is each time, until you've tested it all(you can spit it out if wanted, like wine tasting). Now wait 2-3 minutes, then take another bite/sip of your sweet treat, and write down its level on a scale of 1-100. With no other stimulus, the receptors on the tongue for sweet will become "overloaded," and start to ignore further sweet inputs. This is a common technique in training palates, as exclusion allows a taster to focus on different flavors when others may be overpowering. Its temporary, and a glass of water will clear it up in short order, but it demonstrates that taste receptors can be overloaded. With overload, comes reduction in sensitivity, which means if someone wants the same level of "sweet," it will take larger amounts to achieve that level. This is the same association that addiction has on the body, but is instead highly focused, and dependent, on behavior and individual taste.
Diet coke has 30mg of sodium per 8oz, 0 calories
For reference:
Gatorade: 110mg per 8oz; 25 cal
Powerade: 100mg per 8oz; 50 cal
2% Milk: 100mg per 8oz; 122 cal
Simply Orange Juice: 0mg per 8oz; 110 cal
Diet drinks are often viewed as "as good as water" by some(looking at a former roommate of mine), and since its 0 calories, they drink a great deal of it. This is also a pattern of behavior, but patterns of behavior are a factor in how healthy something can be. Look at the 7-11 double big gulp, at 64 oz already we are at 8% dv of sodium. For a health conscious person, this is noticed, and avoided; for many others, its ignored, if they even read the label at all. That is the difference and the risk I mentioned, but as long as you read the label/know whats in it, moderation should prevent any issues here.
**Note: not a diet soda person myself, never will be. Changing my diet up alot right now, so, that means no soda, period. Brewing plenty of tea however. **
The most common artificial sweetener found, and bought in stores, is Splenda, thanks to its marketing campaign. But what you are actually getting in each little packet is 1 part Sucralose, and 600 parts *filler*. To achieve this level of sweetness, they combine Glucose with Chlorine, Phosgene, and several "proprietary" chemical soups, to create this. Now I'm not commenting on the process, its simply a catalyst, reaction, filter, distill process, of which there are thousands of products we use daily, your Toothbrush likely has two such materials in it, which the process of making Polyurethane and Polyethylene is toxic.
The latest form of Aspartame, called Neotame, is 13,000x sweeter than sugar, and they are looking at replacing aspartame with it.
discovermagazine.com/2005/aug/chemistry-of-artificial-sweeteners
That article has a good explanation of the Chemistry involved. But there is also a simple experiment that one can run to test how sweetness impacts ones sense of taste. Take two people, give them a slice of cake/coke(real sugar)/piece of candy(real sugar), and have them mark down how sweet it is to them on a scale 1-100. Now have one cut as much sugar from his diet as possible for 2 weeks, while the other doesn't cut sugar. After 2 weeks, give them both the same test, and write down how sweet it is. Now have the one cutting sugar do so again for 2 more weeks, while the other Increases sugar intake for 2 weeks; then run the test a third time. This is a adaptation on a crave/addition/deprivation experiment, it was first used on Morphine addicts in the early 1900s.
It can also be done on a micro scale in a way that takes 5 minutes. Make something that is a "sweet" thing for you. Now get a some regular sugar, around a tablespoon, and mix it into a 6oz glass of water. Take a sip/bite of your sweet treat, hold it in your mouth, and get the flavor, write down on a scale of 1-100 where it is. Now do the same with the glass of water, multiple times, writing down how "sweet" it is each time, until you've tested it all(you can spit it out if wanted, like wine tasting). Now wait 2-3 minutes, then take another bite/sip of your sweet treat, and write down its level on a scale of 1-100. With no other stimulus, the receptors on the tongue for sweet will become "overloaded," and start to ignore further sweet inputs. This is a common technique in training palates, as exclusion allows a taster to focus on different flavors when others may be overpowering. Its temporary, and a glass of water will clear it up in short order, but it demonstrates that taste receptors can be overloaded. With overload, comes reduction in sensitivity, which means if someone wants the same level of "sweet," it will take larger amounts to achieve that level. This is the same association that addiction has on the body, but is instead highly focused, and dependent, on behavior and individual taste.
Diet coke has 30mg of sodium per 8oz, 0 calories
For reference:
Gatorade: 110mg per 8oz; 25 cal
Powerade: 100mg per 8oz; 50 cal
2% Milk: 100mg per 8oz; 122 cal
Simply Orange Juice: 0mg per 8oz; 110 cal
Diet drinks are often viewed as "as good as water" by some(looking at a former roommate of mine), and since its 0 calories, they drink a great deal of it. This is also a pattern of behavior, but patterns of behavior are a factor in how healthy something can be. Look at the 7-11 double big gulp, at 64 oz already we are at 8% dv of sodium. For a health conscious person, this is noticed, and avoided; for many others, its ignored, if they even read the label at all. That is the difference and the risk I mentioned, but as long as you read the label/know whats in it, moderation should prevent any issues here.
**Note: not a diet soda person myself, never will be. Changing my diet up alot right now, so, that means no soda, period. Brewing plenty of tea however.
**
Megatron28
Moderator
**Tried to write this up on my phone, didn't work**
The most common artificial sweetener found, and bought in stores, is Splenda, thanks to its marketing campaign. But what you are actually getting in each little packet is 1 part Sucralose, and 600 parts *filler*. To achieve this level of sweetness, they combine Glucose with Chlorine, Phosgene, and several "proprietary" chemical soups, to create this. Now I'm not commenting on the process, its simply a catalyst, reaction, filter, distill process, of which there are thousands of products we use daily, your Toothbrush likely has two such materials in it, which the process of making Polyurethane and Polyethylene is toxic.
The latest form of Aspartame, called Neotame, is 13,000x sweeter than sugar, and they are looking at replacing aspartame with it.
discovermagazine.com/2005/aug/chemistry-of-artificial-sweeteners
That article has a good explanation of the Chemistry involved. But there is also a simple experiment that one can run to test how sweetness impacts ones sense of taste. Take two people, give them a slice of cake/coke(real sugar)/piece of candy(real sugar), and have them mark down how sweet it is to them on a scale 1-100. Now have one cut as much sugar from his diet as possible for 2 weeks, while the other doesn't cut sugar. After 2 weeks, give them both the same test, and write down how sweet it is. Now have the one cutting sugar do so again for 2 more weeks, while the other Increases sugar intake for 2 weeks; then run the test a third time. This is a adaptation on a crave/addition/deprivation experiment, it was first used on Morphine addicts in the early 1900s.
It can also be done on a micro scale in a way that takes 5 minutes. Make something that is a "sweet" thing for you. Now get a some regular sugar, around a tablespoon, and mix it into a 6oz glass of water. Take a sip/bite of your sweet treat, hold it in your mouth, and get the flavor, write down on a scale of 1-100 where it is. Now do the same with the glass of water, multiple times, writing down how "sweet" it is each time, until you've tested it all(you can spit it out if wanted, like wine tasting). Now wait 2-3 minutes, then take another bite/sip of your sweet treat, and write down its level on a scale of 1-100. With no other stimulus, the receptors on the tongue for sweet will become "overloaded," and start to ignore further sweet inputs. This is a common technique in training palates, as exclusion allows a taster to focus on different flavors when others may be overpowering. Its temporary, and a glass of water will clear it up in short order, but it demonstrates that taste receptors can be overloaded. With overload, comes reduction in sensitivity, which means if someone wants the same level of "sweet," it will take larger amounts to achieve that level. This is the same association that addiction has on the body, but is instead highly focused, and dependent, on behavior and individual taste.
Diet coke has 30mg of sodium per 8oz, 0 calories
For reference:
Gatorade: 110mg per 8oz; 25 cal
Powerade: 100mg per 8oz; 50 cal
2% Milk: 100mg per 8oz; 122 cal
Simply Orange Juice: 0mg per 8oz; 110 cal
Diet drinks are often viewed as "as good as water" by some(looking at a former roommate of mine), and since its 0 calories, they drink a great deal of it. This is also a pattern of behavior, but patterns of behavior are a factor in how healthy something can be. Look at the 7-11 double big gulp, at 64 oz already we are at 8% dv of sodium. For a health conscious person, this is noticed, and avoided; for many others, its ignored, if they even read the label at all. That is the difference and the risk I mentioned, but as long as you read the label/know whats in it, moderation should prevent any issues here.
**Note: not a diet soda person myself, never will be. Changing my diet up alot right now, so, that means no soda, period. Brewing plenty of tea however.
I was looking for scientific studies, not anecdotal information. Do you have any that support your conclusions?
MadLuke
New member
jn.nutrition.org/content/early/2012/05/02/jn.111.149575.full.pdf
Took some digging, remembered it from a while back. Final conclusion is preference for sugar/sweet develop while young, but context is very important for each subject. Probably one of the reasons studies on this subject are so uncommon.
Another one:
health.harvard.edu/blog/artificial-sweeteners-sugar-free-but-at-what-cost-201207165030
That one is just exploring things anecdotal, and the comments go in a weird direction, but its got a common theme that increasing sweetness reduces sensitivity. The other tastes, Spicy, Salty, Savory, Bitter, are the same way. This one also explores how many diet drinks is the potential "critical mass", listing it at 21 per week, or 3 8oz sodas a day. A simple 24oz soda from McDonalds will reach this point, and its not uncommon for people to refill.
Its an anecdotal area of study, and not enough scientific attention would be my guess.
Took some digging, remembered it from a while back. Final conclusion is preference for sugar/sweet develop while young, but context is very important for each subject. Probably one of the reasons studies on this subject are so uncommon.
Another one:
health.harvard.edu/blog/artificial-sweeteners-sugar-free-but-at-what-cost-201207165030
That one is just exploring things anecdotal, and the comments go in a weird direction, but its got a common theme that increasing sweetness reduces sensitivity. The other tastes, Spicy, Salty, Savory, Bitter, are the same way. This one also explores how many diet drinks is the potential "critical mass", listing it at 21 per week, or 3 8oz sodas a day. A simple 24oz soda from McDonalds will reach this point, and its not uncommon for people to refill.
Its an anecdotal area of study, and not enough scientific attention would be my guess.
Megatron28
Moderator
Your first study seems completely inconclusive. It doesn't seem to support your earlier statement whatsoever. Here are a couple of quotes from it.
I did not read every word of the study. Is there something I am missing that supports your position?
