Why shouldn't I Blast & Cruze? PCT seems like a waste

[4GKenZy]

Why pct is harsh on the body? Any study ?

I'm on mobile. I'd be happy to provide sources.

Nolvadex has a negative effect on the brain. Clomid has terrible terrible side effects. Some could even be permanent, such as the vision ones.

But the worst is you're basically playing yo-yo with your hormones year round and taking a bunch of drugs they give to cancer patients. Why not simply return your test levels back to how they were instead of waiting for your hpta to make that same amount of test?

Like I said I'm on mobile I'd be happy to link some studies in a few hours when I get home from work. I know for a fact I've read them.

 

[Milton]

Why pct is harsh on the body? Any study ?

its best for you to read the stickies and stop annoying everyone here.

 

[Sexyy]

I'm on mobile. I'd be happy to provide sources.

Nolvadex has a negative effect on the brain. Clomid has terrible terrible side effects. Some could even be permanent, such as the vision ones.

But the worst is you're basically playing yo-yo with your hormones year round and taking a bunch of drugs they give to cancer patients. Why not simply return your test levels back to how they were instead of waiting for your hpta to make that same amount of test?

Like I said I'm on mobile I'd be happy to link some studies in a few hours when I get home from work. I know for a fact I've read them.

Really? So I wont use pct drug then. After last shot i will use pregnyl for about 3 weeks then stop. My cycle is test only. I think my hpta will come back and I wont use steroids again.

 

[4GKenZy]

Really? So I wont use pct drug then. After last shot i will use pregnyl for about 3 weeks then stop. My cycle is test only. I think my hpta will come back and I wont use steroids again.

I didn't mean it like that. You should use PCT if you're just doing one cycle. It will allow a faster recovery of your natural test but it's just harsh on the body. You will feel like shit and know it. If you don't use pct you will still recover but it will take considerably longer.

How long is your cycle? If it's 14 weeks or shorter you don't even need clomid. 40/40/20/20 nolvadex will do.

 

[JimiThing]

I didn't mean it like that. You should use PCT if you're just doing one cycle. It will allow a faster recovery of your natural test but it's just harsh on the body. You will feel like shit and know it. If you don't use pct you will still recover but it will take considerably longer.

How long is your cycle? If it's 14 weeks or shorter you don't even need clomid. 40/40/20/20 nolvadex will do.

If he is going to do it have him do it right, with clomid & nolva Ok?

 

[4GKenZy]

If he is going to do it have him do it right, with clomid & nolva Ok?

It's not required. I used the nolva protocol and I know plenty of people who have used it and made full recoveries. This is the only forum where the majority think clomid is necessary with short cycles... the thing about "competitive synergy" is broscience.

But I digress. Back to the topic.

 

[JimiThing]

It's not required. I used the nolva protocol and I know plenty of people who have used it and made full recoveries. This is the only forum where the majority think clomid is necessary with short cycles... the thing about "competitive synergy" is broscience.

But I digress. Back to the topic.

Its clomids agonist/antogist proprieties that make the combo more effective than either on its own. Its not brosceince its real science and yeah he could get away with one or the other but why? The goal of pct is to recover as quickly and as fully as possible and the combo will do that most effectively. How about digressing to as well as sticking to posting accurate info.

 

[Sexyy]

Its clomids agonist/antogist proprieties that make the combo more effective than either on its own. Its not brosceince its real science and yeah he could get away with one or the other but why? The goal of pct is to recover as quickly and as fully as possible and the combo will do that most effectively. How about digressing to as well as sticking to posting accurate info.

What about side effects? Nolvadex can change my brain?

 

[JimiThing]

What about side effects? Nolvadex can change my brain?

Wut?

 

[4GKenZy]

What about side effects? Nolvadex can change my brain?

Heres a nice post with several sources. Nolvadex is neurotoxic. But if youre doing it once in a while you will be fine. Thats one of the reasons you shouldnt cycle several times in a year, just b&c.

https://www.reddit dot com/r/steroids/comments/47genv/mental_fog_and_neurotoxicity_with/

I cant post links because im too new, just copy paste the url and fix it.

 

[Sexyy]

I used nolvadex and clomid in past. I never had brain fog. I was feeling like shit and suicidal.

 

[Sexyy]

And if u really want to cycle rest of your life, u are right. Pct drug is more harsh on body. Cruise and blast is good for u. But u should ask to yourself if u use steroids rest of ur life.

 

[halfwit]

Everyone on this forum will tell you not to cycle until 25 in fear of hpta shutdown, but I recovered fully from my cycle as confirmed by bloods 4 weeks after my pct.

Post your results. The biggest risk of adolescent use isn't HPTA recovery by the way, it's the development of your nervous system being interrupted.

 

[JimiThing]

Yeah I wouldn't lose sleep over that at all. We are taking it for 4 weeks man. I seriously doubt the impact on one of 4 dopamine pathways in the brain for that short a time would result in permanent damage. They even state that women who experience mental fog when taking tamox no longer experience it after they cease administration. Also I find it really interesting that they correlate tamoxifen with creating a mental fog when the dopamine pathway effected by the prevention of 17b estradiol for acting upon it is responsible for movement and motor skills, not mental acuity.

 

[4GKenZy]

Post your results. The biggest risk of adolescent use isn't HPTA recovery by the way, it's the development of your nervous system being interrupted.

First time I've heard of this in my hundreds of hours of research on gear use.

 

[JimiThing]

First time I've heard of this in my hundreds of hours of research on gear use.

Is this the hundreds of hours that considers nolva and clomid together broscience, hmmmmmmmm that explains a good bit......

 

[electricred]

EDIT: never mind, I'm outta this one

 

[Milton]

EDIT: never mind, I'm outta this one

not me, just had to go and get some popcorn.

 

[4GKenZy]

Is this the hundreds of hours that considers nolva and clomid together broscience, hmmmmmmmm that explains a good bit......

Nolvadex has been shown in studies to be neurotoxic and clomid comes with its own wealth of nasty side effects. imo, feeling emotional and shitty during PCT mainly comes from the side effects of SERMs rather than T levels being low. you should be able to recover just fine with HCG + an AI. so many people tout the importance of SERMs yet I see no real studies showing their efficacy over just HCG+AI. In fact, as far as I know none of the clinical studies on testosterone (some 20wk+) use SERMs post T therapy...

There is no proven evidence of clomid/nolva making recovery more likely over just hcg+AI besides anecdotes. I would recommend that HCG is always used on cycle during the whole duration of the cycle regardless of PCT, though. Something like 250-300IU EOD (taken from a pubmed study which found that dose to stimulate 100% of natural ITT production.) Take what I say with a grain of salt as it's anecdotal, but so is everything else people claim regarding SERMs for PCT.

The studies that various steroid "gurus" hang their hats on are studies on eugonadal men or men with normal function but low output. And indeed, they increase T while the drugs are active, primarily by tricking the brain into thinking estradiol is low.

Problem is, E follows T and in the post cycle phase, your T is rock bottom anyway.

The real thing stopping recovery from being instant is sluggish testes, and the only thing that works on that (as far as we know) is HCG.
They MIGHT help however. If you haven't got them already, you would probably be better off spending that money on HCG and an AI (hcg aromatizes very easily)

 

[halfwit]

First time I've heard of this in my hundreds of hours of research on gear use.

I seriously doubt you've spent hundreds of hours researching. You've maybe spent that time looking for opinions that support your own beliefs.

I however HAVE spent YEARS learning about this stuff as I require AAS to live. Medical studies are what matter first, THEN you can take experiences from veterans into account. That's why I stick around here; there are many folks (quite a few in this thread) that have taken the time to find medical FACT and deliver it to you.

I advise you spend less time on reddit, and more time on pubmed. You'll learn something, I assure you.

Edit: Just saw your retort to one of the most knowledgeable guys on several boards. JimiThing is no slouch when it comes to knowing how this works, and I hope you're ready to defend your stance.

By the way, SERMs block the hypothalamus from seeing estradiol, which sends gnrh to the pituitary gland. This then triggers a release of LH, which stimulates the release of testosterone from the leydig cells. HCG mimics LH, but is SUPPRESSIVE of endogenous production - defeating the purpose of restarting.

Your ascertation that lazy testes are to blame is woefully incorrect as well. It's the pituitary (secondary hypogonadism) that is the weak link in the chain, as it's the pituitary that is responsible for opening your negative feedback loop to begin with. Testicular issues are caused by other external conditions, seldom due to androgen induced hypogonadism. I welcome you to question the doctor of the house to verify.