Z Blue Top Labs

[DaHurt]

My concern would be how much am I actually taking. If I want to run a low dose 3-5 IU what am I actually getting. Do I need to run 10 IU to actually get the benifit of 3-5?

Exactly my point friend, dosing twice as much of the under-dosed gh.

 

[dy595959]

I for one am willing to give the blue tops a run. So Mike if you can get the board to allow me to PM you then I'll order some Blues asap. LMK

 

[Spongy]

Please find one single generic currently being sold giving readings of 50. Better yet, find ANY current GH products giving readings of 50.

Yes, those high numbers do occasonally happen, but you also need to remember that there is variance in these readings. Not everyone's response will be the same. 50 is really high...over-dosed. You say yourself that Pharm-grade GH (which is dosed perfectly) had readings of 30ish'.

So, if someone occasionally sells GH significantly over-dosed...great, but how many decently priced GH products are you going to find right now giving guys a reading of 50? Exactly. In fact, most GH products now are complete shit!

The point is that Pharm-grade GH is generally considered very good (and expensive), so even if Uncle's is not dosed quite as high as pharm-grade GH, that doesn't mean it's not good, especially when looking at it from a cost effective perspective.

If were looking at it from a cost effective perspective, we could use the following comparison. If you bought 50 IU of GH for $50 or 100IU of GH for $100, which one is the better deal? Using your number of 30 for pharm-grade GH, are you really getting a much better deal with the pharm-grade if your reading is 40% higher, but you have to pay twice as much?

If we know for a fact that Uncle's GH is legit, but not dosed as high as Pharmgrade, I tend to think of a good deal as whatever product gives me the most legitimate GH for my money. Personally, I wouldn't care if a generic brand contained only 25% as much GH as a pharm-grade kit if it only cost $25 a kit! Would you? Who cares how many bottles I have to go through, so long as I am paying a decent price for each IU of GH I get.

I just wanted to put a different slant on this because if the reading is the ONLY thing you look at when determining whether GH is a good deal, you could be missing out. Who gives a shit if some GH is the highest dosed ever, if it cost $1000 a kit! Know what I mean?

Anyway, I am glad we have some real GH.

I want to preface this by saying that I have tons of respect for Mike, Heavy, Old, and the other Z reps as well as Z. I appreciate that knowledge that you all bring, and you are all certainly an asset to the community.

I won't get into too much detail Mke, but one of your fellow Reps for Ergo over at PM just recently had a reading of over 50 on the serum test for some generics.

I'm not here to start an argument, but here is my point... If i buy blue tops that are 10IU per vial, then it is my expectation that I will have similar results to other 10iu vials. If I inject 10iu's of Serostim or Humatrope and get a serum of 38, then I would certainly hope a generic would come close. Would I be pissed if I used some generics and got a result of 30? No, not at all. Not is the slightest, however, we are currently looking at a 50% discrepancy or more. This leads me to two possible conclusions.

1. These 10IU vials being sold are actually 4IU's, or

2. There is about 50% filler in these.

The second explanation is pretty freaky to me. That means, in order to get a 3IU dose of pharma, I need to shoot 6IU's of generic. Of that 6IU's, 3 is HGH, 3 is filler. While i tend to trust people, the idea of 3IU of filler is not one that I am comfortable with.

Let me put it this way... When I go to the grocery store I have two options... I can buy a 12 pack of Coke for 3.99 or whatever, or I can buy a 12 pack of Sam's Club Cola for 1.99. If i choose the generic, it is my expectation that there will be 12 cans in there, not 6 cans and some bubble wrap to make it appear full. If i get 6 cans and some bubble wrap I am going to bring it to someone's attention and get it fixed. If they tell me that "i should be happy that i got anything at all," i'm going to tell them to piss off. Then I'm going to tell all my friends, then I'm going to file a complaint.

Now, with HGH you can't really do that (file a complaint), but whether anyone wants to believe it or not, customer service and quality product is what is going to make sales.

Z does right by his customers, and i truly don't mean to take that away from him, but to say that a 50% dosed vial of HGH is acceptable blows me away.

I do NOT blame Z at all, because I know that he is ultimately the middle man... But think about this... If a source came to the table with properly dosed HGH, they could raise the price and STILL make a killing.

I'm sure you will sell many of these blue tops, because frankly... People want SOMETHING. I have no problem with that, but there are more than a few of us patiently waiting on the sidelines for the manufacturers to get it through their heads that we will not tolerate the BS that has played out over the last several months. It trickles up in this case. Consumer to source to supplier. we can only hope that the sources will start getting the idea and have a genuine conversation with their suppliers.

Once again, much respect for Z and all you guys.

 

[Dr.Phoenix]

I agree , people should know exact amount of what they inject. This is serious stuff

 

[crazyfmike]

I want to preface this by saying that I have tons of respect for Mike, Heavy, Old, and the other Z reps as well as Z. I appreciate that knowledge that you all bring, and you are all certainly an asset to the community.

I won't get into too much detail Mke, but one of your fellow Reps for Ergo over at PM just recently had a reading of over 50 on the serum test for some generics.

I'm not here to start an argument, but here is my point... If i buy blue tops that are 10IU per vial, then it is my expectation that I will have similar results to other 10iu vials. If I inject 10iu's of Serostim or Humatrope and get a serum of 38, then I would certainly hope a generic would come close. Would I be pissed if I used some generics and got a result of 30? No, not at all. Not is the slightest, however, we are currently looking at a 50% discrepancy or more. This leads me to two possible conclusions.

1. These 10IU vials being sold are actually 4IU's, or

2. There is about 50% filler in these.

The second explanation is pretty freaky to me. That means, in order to get a 3IU dose of pharma, I need to shoot 6IU's of generic. Of that 6IU's, 3 is HGH, 3 is filler. While i tend to trust people, the idea of 3IU of filler is not one that I am comfortable with.

Let me put it this way... When I go to the grocery store I have two options... I can buy a 12 pack of Coke for 3.99 or whatever, or I can buy a 12 pack of Sam's Club Cola for 1.99. If i choose the generic, it is my expectation that there will be 12 cans in there, not 6 cans and some bubble wrap to make it appear full. If i get 6 cans and some bubble wrap I am going to bring it to someone's attention and get it fixed. If they tell me that "i should be happy that i got anything at all," i'm going to tell them to piss off. Then I'm going to tell all my friends, then I'm going to file a complaint.

Now, with HGH you can't really do that (file a complaint), but whether anyone wants to believe it or not, customer service and quality product is what is going to make sales.

Z does right by his customers, and i truly don't mean to take that away from him, but to say that a 50% dosed vial of HGH is acceptable blows me away.

I do NOT blame Z at all, because I know that he is ultimately the middle man... But think about this... If a source came to the table with properly dosed HGH, they could raise the price and STILL make a killing.

I'm sure you will sell many of these blue tops, because frankly... People want SOMETHING. I have no problem with that, but there are more than a few of us patiently waiting on the sidelines for the manufacturers to get it through their heads that we will not tolerate the BS that has played out over the last several months. It trickles up in this case. Consumer to source to supplier. we can only hope that the sources will start getting the idea and have a genuine conversation with their suppliers.

Once again, much respect for Z and all you guys.

Excellent write Spongy!!

I hope these guys ready to run out and buy these realize they are lowering the bar for the Chinese factory to produce 50% product as a standard.

Next will be 40% and this thing will only get worse.

50% guys?

Really??

 

[Mike Arnold]

I for one am willing to give the blue tops a run. So Mike if you can get the board to allow me to PM you then I'll order some Blues asap. LMK

Shoot me a PM...you have enough posts.

 

[heavyiron]

All good points guys. At the end of the day its about the consumer getting what they paid for. The March batches just came in. As always I'm getting labs and posting results good or bad. Hope Z still loves me next week...

 

[Mike Arnold]

Haha this argument doesn't exactly hold if your goal is to achieve a specific serum level, say as a bodybuilder who wants to maximize your results...

Just means you'll have to dose twice as much of the cheap shit...which means what?

Not very cheap.

It wasn't an argument...I just putting things into perspective based on the post I quoted. I believe the perspective holds weight directly in relation to the point....which was that if someone was paying twice as much for pharm-grade GH and getting double the point reading, there really isn't any difference from a cost effectiveness position.

That was all I was saying...I think maybe you're reasding into it a bit farther than what I actually wroite. Nowhere in my post did I say a higher point reading wouldn't have been desirable. In the end, it is the customer's choice whether or not they want tp purchase it. I will be gettinga test myself if I get the time...as I am interested in seeing other results.

 

[Mike Arnold]

I want to preface this by saying that I have tons of respect for Mike, Heavy, Old, and the other Z reps as well as Z. I appreciate that knowledge that you all bring, and you are all certainly an asset to the community.

I won't get into too much detail Mke, but one of your fellow Reps for Ergo over at PM just recently had a reading of over 50 on the serum test for some generics.

I'm not here to start an argument, but here is my point... If i buy blue tops that are 10IU per vial, then it is my expectation that I will have similar results to other 10iu vials. If I inject 10iu's of Serostim or Humatrope and get a serum of 38, then I would certainly hope a generic would come close. Would I be pissed if I used some generics and got a result of 30? No, not at all. Not is the slightest, however, we are currently looking at a 50% discrepancy or more. This leads me to two possible conclusions.

1. These 10IU vials being sold are actually 4IU's, or

2. There is about 50% filler in these.

The second explanation is pretty freaky to me. That means, in order to get a 3IU dose of pharma, I need to shoot 6IU's of generic. Of that 6IU's, 3 is HGH, 3 is filler. While i tend to trust people, the idea of 3IU of filler is not one that I am comfortable with.

Let me put it this way... When I go to the grocery store I have two options... I can buy a 12 pack of Coke for 3.99 or whatever, or I can buy a 12 pack of Sam's Club Cola for 1.99. If i choose the generic, it is my expectation that there will be 12 cans in there, not 6 cans and some bubble wrap to make it appear full. If i get 6 cans and some bubble wrap I am going to bring it to someone's attention and get it fixed. If they tell me that "i should be happy that i got anything at all," i'm going to tell them to piss off. Then I'm going to tell all my friends, then I'm going to file a complaint.

Now, with HGH you can't really do that (file a complaint), but whether anyone wants to believe it or not, customer service and quality product is what is going to make sales.

Z does right by his customers, and i truly don't mean to take that away from him, but to say that a 50% dosed vial of HGH is acceptable blows me away.

I do NOT blame Z at all, because I know that he is ultimately the middle man... But think about this... If a source came to the table with properly dosed HGH, they could raise the price and STILL make a killing.

I'm sure you will sell many of these blue tops, because frankly... People want SOMETHING. I have no problem with that, but there are more than a few of us patiently waiting on the sidelines for the manufacturers to get it through their heads that we will not tolerate the BS that has played out over the last several months. It trickles up in this case. Consumer to source to supplier. we can only hope that the sources will start getting the idea and have a genuine conversation with their suppliers.

Once again, much respect for Z and all you guys.

I completely understand what you're saying. At no point was I attempting to "blow-off" the reading as meaningless or say it was comparable to a pharm-grade vial of GH.

However, there is one thing I do want to mention in regard to your post. You say when you buy 10 IU of GH, you expect there to be roughly the same amount of GH in the vial, whether pharm-grade or UGL. Now, while in an ideal world that would be great...it is NOT reality...nor it is really even anywhere close.

Yes, there are good brands of GH out there...both pharm and generic, but the generics which rival pharm grade are far and few between...and even the ones which are good now might be shit 1 month from now. There is NO stability in the GH market, even with many of the supposedly "reliable" generics. Reliability is a dead word in this industry because of those chinsese MF'rs screwing us all! THAT is reality. There is also a reason pharm-grade costs much more (almpost always)...because it is 100% reliable and will contain exactly what it says it contains...all the time.

With many generics, what often happens is that we will see a very good batch come through. Then handful of reliable people test it...then everyone knows about...then everyone buys it and gets good results...then after a billion people are buying it...BAM...it goes to shit and is either under-dosed or completely bunk! How many times have you seen this happen, even just recently?

Even "great" generics are only great for so long...and when it comes to the large majority of GH products in general, we hardly ever see great test results in the 40-50 range...only a select few batches from a select few barnds usually see those numbers...for a short time.

So, the point is that what you "expect" and what is actually happening in the real world are two vastly different things. Expectations are not being met and they haven't been for a LONG time. Ohhh...maybe they will on specific orders for a time, but inevitably, it goes back to shit after a little while.

With this is mind, while I completely agree with you that we should all be "ABLE" to expect consistently dosed GH from every manufacturer out there, our expectations will never natch up with reality...it is never going to happen...and it is especially never going to hapen with China ruling the day.

All we can do Here at Uncle's is tell you the truth about what we see with our products and let you decide. Juyst as another example of instability...the last batch Uncle had was great....reradings were on-point and everyone was very happy. This current batch, while better than most of what we see out there (most is 100% fake) is not as good as the previous batch.

While we can't control what the manufacturer does (and believe me, there is not a single UGL out there who doesn't hate those MF'rs when it comes to GH)...we will tell you the truth about what we see. Just like Uncle publically anounced that he had a bad batch of GH before anyone complained...and just like he posted results on the last batch with great results...and just like he posted results on this one....we will contginue to do our best to keep you guys informed. It would've been EASY to post up fake lab work and make it look 100% legit...we will not do it. You see exactly what we see...there are no "special" bartches, as some have alluded to before...there are no altered Test results or lab work...we won't claim something to be true that isn't...and if we don't know something, we will say we don't know.

I have been using Z's stuff exclusively (AAS)since I started working for him and I have been very pleased. Overall, when one takes into consideration the number of products he sells and the number of batches of each product he has recieved over the last year, there have been VERY few complaints. We could probably limit all complaints down to a few single batches of stuff....and on the few occasions Z should make something right, he ALWAYS does. Overall, as both a rep and a user of his stuff, I have been really happy with both his products in general, and the way he does things...good guy.


Note: One last thing I want to bring up is something you said. You mentioned that many of you are waiting on the sidelines until the sources have a genuine talk with the manufacturers about their GH product quality. This is one belief I have to set you straight on. If you truly think the UGL's are not genuinely talking to their manufacturers about this problem, you have NO IDEA what is going on behind the scenes. WE...and everyone else...is pissed! Everyone has been trying to fix this problem for some time. The problem is NOT the sources! It is the manufacturers only! The manufacturer doesn't give a FUCK about you or us. You know why? Because they know damn well they have us all by the balls! There is nowhere else to go...unless you want to pay out the ass! Right now, Chins is iot, buddy! None of us like it and we all wish it would change, but we see no sign of it happeneing. You want to know what we do see a sign of? The GH industry going down the drain...that's what we see.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Excellent write Spongy!!

I hope these guys ready to run out and buy these realize they are lowering the bar for the Chinese factory to produce 50% product as a standard.

Next will be 40% and this thing will only get worse.

50% guys?

Really??

Not being a smart-ass at all, but the standard is already well below 50%...the standard is BUNK! The MAJORITY of GH coming out of China is fake! After that, the 2nd largest majority is almost bunk. Believe it or not...what we have here would be considered a "good" batch of GH for China...and China is making it all.

If you think that the market standard for Chinese GH has EVER been much above what we have now...think again! Chinese GH has NEVER been on par with Pharm-grade GH...that is common knowledge...and most pharm-grade GH tests in the 30's.

I think some guys here are being deluded and unknowlingly led astray into thinking that lab results in the 50's is normal or is to be expected with Chinese GH...WRONG! The reality is that we can all expect it all we want, but it has never happend on even a remotely consistent bais, is not happeneing now, and will never happen...period. Chinese GH has never been on par, in general, with pharm-grade GH and never will be. I felt the need to put this into perspective because if these guys here think they're holding out for the day when they will "pressure" China into doing what they want them to do, these guys will be waiting a LONG time. This has nothing to do me trying to get anyone to buy our GH or make our GH look better than it is....buy it if you want or don't, but what I am saying here is the truth. Seriously, how could anyone expect Chinese GH to be as good as pharm-grade GH, in general? Seriously...how? Guys, please understand that Chinese GH has never been on par with pharm-grade GH and NEVER will be, so don't "expect" it to be.

We have guys here bashing a reading of 17-18 like it is way below the chinese standard, as if China has been pumping out pharm-quality GH for years and all of a sudden this 17-18 point batch has just lowered the industry standard. LOL...LOL...and LOL some more...and LOL a bit more still...and one more LOL after that. There have been TONS of batches of GH from China which have been nowhere near 17-18...the LARGE majority have been nowhere near 17-18. Pharm-grade is usually in the 30 something range. If Chinese GH is not on par with Pharm-grade GH and never has been, how many points do you "EXPECT" your Chinese GH to be? Do you expect it to always rival pharm-grade GH? I sure hope not because it is never going to happen on any type of a consistent basis, but based on the way some guys are taking here, I seriously think some do expect it to be this way...like it has been this way all along. If anyone can reliably and consistently get Chinese GH numbering in the 40-50 range...or even in the 30 range...PLEASE contact me because we will have a job for you...and pay you well. Thanks.

On a personal note, I am fed up with the GH industry, in general. I wish every vial of China made GH was every bit as good as U.S made Pharmacy grade GH, but until that day happens (never), we will continue doing the best we can...and you will know exactly what is going on every time.

 

[TraPump]

It is the sources faults as well when they know they're getting junk from suppliers and continue to take People's hard earned money for it. Not saying z or any source in particular just saying in general

 

[Spongy]

I hear ya Mike! What i don't understand is why chinese sources aren't dealing with chinese Pharma grade? There are many that would pay decently for LEGIT Jins or LEGIT Ankebio. Both can be had in China DIRECT for a decent price.

 

[DaHurt]

It wasn't an argument...I just putting things into perspective based on the post I quoted. I believe the perspective holds weight directly in relation to the point....which was that if someone was paying twice as much for pharm-grade GH and getting double the point reading, there really isn't any difference from a cost effectiveness position.

That was all I was saying...I think maybe you're reasding into it a bit farther than what I actually wroite. Nowhere in my post did I say a higher point reading wouldn't have been desirable. In the end, it is the customer's choice whether or not they want tp purchase it. I will be gettinga test myself if I get the time...as I am interested in seeing other results.

Precisely, which makes it a moot point.

Haha I'm done with this.

 

[Mike Arnold]

It is the sources faults as well when they know they're getting junk from suppliers and continue to take People's hard earned money for it. Not saying z or any source in particular just saying in general

I agree with that statement 100%. If a source continues to sell GH they know is fake, that is NOT cool...at all.

This is another reason why I like Uncle so much. When December's batch came out and was shown to be bad, Z didn't continue selling it until he was forced to stop, due to customer complaints. He took the intiative to publically anounce that it was bad before it became an issue. He then immediately offered to exchange the bad GH for good stuff to anyone who had purchased from the bad batch.

That is upstanding...most sources won't do that.

 

[Spongy]

I agree with that statement 100%. If a source continues to sell GH they know is fake, that is NOT cool...at all.

This is another reason why I like Uncle so much. When December's batch came out and was shown to be bad, Z didn't continue selling it until he was forced to stop, due to customer complaints. He took the intiative to publically anounce that it was bad before it became an issue. He then immediately offered to exchange the bad GH for good stuff to anyone who had purchased from the bad batch.

That is upstanding...most sources won't do that.

I have to agree with this 100%. Like I said, this is not a knock on Z at all. Z has consistently taken care of his people and customers and I am very pleased that he is concerned with quality control.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Precisely, which makes it a moot point.

Haha I'm done with this.

I posted it because the prior poster was strongly inferring that there was a difference when there wasn't, so it was not a moot point at all, but relevant. It had nothing to do with your comment....you chose to reference my post and take it in a different direction, one I wasn't debating and never disagreed with.

 

[DaHurt]

I posted it because the prior poster was strongly inferring that there was a difference when there wasn't, so it was not a moot point at all, but relevant. It had nothing to do with your comment....you chose to reference my post and take it in a different direction, one I wasn't debating and never disagreed with. I kind of wondered why you were arguing a point I never disagreed with, but hey.

Your point was that you were bringing a 'different perspective' in terms of cost efficiency. Then you spouted off some irrelevant hypothetical numbers.

Unless the hgh in question here is 40% the cost of pharm grade, then it is not even equivalent in cost efficiency...because it is yielding from 10 iu approx 4 iu worth of hgh based on serum tests.

At any rate, I'm not bashing, because you guys were completely transparent which is EXTREMELY admirable, sooo....

I will keep my mouth shut

 

[DaHurt]

But since I do have your attention now MA, I'd still be really interested in sources (as in factual ones) for the interesting and different info you put in my log about IGF-LR3, MGF, etc.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Your point was that you were bringing a 'different perspective' in terms of cost efficiency. Then you spouted off some irrelevant hypothetical numbers.

Unless the hgh in question here is 40% the cost of pharm grade, then it is not even equivalent in cost efficiency...because it is yielding from 10 iu approx 4 iu worth of hgh based on serum tests.

At any rate, I'm not bashing, because you guys were completely transparent which is EXTREMELY admirable, sooo....

I will keep my mouth shut

I now see we're both talking about 2 diffrent things from the same post. I thought this might've been the case when I read your last post, now I know it is. No matter. However, I would like to say I was never saying it was the equivalent in terms of cost efficiency...I was simply bringing up the point of cost efficiency, as it was largely ignored in previous posts and deserved to be mentioned. Again, we're not on the same page.

Aside from that, I would say it's more like 50%...not 40%.

 

[Mike Arnold]

I have to agree with this 100%. Like I said, this is not a knock on Z at all. Z has consistently taken care of his people and customers and I am very pleased that he is concerned with quality control.

Believe me...I understand what all you guys are saying and I realize no one is attacking Z. I get it.