5x5 Going well but.....

[Tryn2]

I like the 5x5 Im on but I think my shoulders are gettin hit a little hard. They seem ok but I may not know for awhile if they are being overtrained. See any adjustments that might help or also any poitners to this routine. My strenth has been goin up consistantly. If I fail on a 5x5 I may drop down in weight the next week then keep going I usually blow past the previous barrier. So it seems to be working.....My weak points just to note are chest and arms.
Thanks bros....& yes pullin u said my shoulders would fry in less than a few weeks......Y do I tell you when your right...


5 x 5 routine
Monday - Chest/Calves
Flat Bench 5x5
Incline Smith Bench 2x8-10
Dumbell Flies 2x8-10

Tuesday - Back/Shoulders
Military Press 5x5
Side Laterals 2 x8-10
Front Laterals 2 x8-10
Shrugs - 2x10-12
Deads 5x5 (eoweek)
Pullups - 2x8-10

Wednesday - Off

Thursday - Arms
Close Grip Bench 5x5
Standing BB Curls - 5x5
Dips - 2x8-10
Hammer Curls 2x8-10
Skull Crushers - 2x8-10
Preacher Curls - 2x8-10


Friday - Legs
Squats - 5x5
Hack Squats - 2x8-10
Leg Curls - 2x8-10
Shrugs - 2x10-12 (optional)

Saturday & Sunday - Off

 

[BigRonWannabee]

My shoulders couldnt take the 5x5 for more than 3 sessions. Too much volume imo for such a small muscle group that gets worked during just about all other excersizes as well.

 

[bas4lizzife]

maybe try dropping the military press down to 3x5... and start rowing on back day!

 

[pullinbig]

chest one day and shoulders the very next day? duh......... then 2 days later you benching again. that routine sucks. (no offense needsize but it does). only a hand full of people can tolerate that much shoulder work.

everyone that i know who was on a 5x5 when they switched over to a PLing routine made incredible gains with out over training. i am not a 5x5 fan and never have been. plus that split is terrible. if you cant get it done in 3 days/w 4/w aint gonna make any difference. your shoulders are living proof.

 

[Mudge]

Shit I dont do any overhead pressing anymore, incline at my gym is steep, 2 sets and no mas. I do side laterals 2 sets, rears 1, and light rotator stuff with 10 pounders for 15 reps. Nothing else. I had worked up to front pressing 235 for 4 or 5 reps, dont know what I could do now but honestly my numbers were sliding from that and incline benching, my shoulders were getting blasted.

 

[blackbeard]

chest one day and shoulders the very next day? duh......... then 2 days later you benching again. that routine sucks. (no offense needsize but it does). only a hand full of people can tolerate that much shoulder work.

everyone that i know who was on a 5x5 when they switched over to a PLing routine made incredible gains with out over training. i am not a 5x5 fan and never have been. plus that split is terrible. if you cant get it done in 3 days/w 4/w aint gonna make any difference. your shoulders are living proof.

I agree..I will say that i did fairly well on 5x5 my front BB presses went up..personally i didnt have a problem..however you have found out that you dont recover welle nough to keep that split..

At least you are smart enough to recognize it isnt working and a change is needed..too many people say this is "the routine" it has to work and will follow until they stop lifting all together..

I think youll need to incorporate chest/delts/tris into one workout

 

[iron addict]

I could be on 4 grams a week and get weaker on that routine as every session I would not yet be recovered from the previous on. prolly get injured too. Great combo!

Most people need way less work to recover if they are training heavy which 5's definately qualify as.

No one ever starts simple do they? They always do as much and as complicated as possible and the smart ones keep reducing until it works. Most as previously noted just end up so burned out and frustrated at their attempts to grow that they quit.

Iron Addict

 

[needsize]

I have found out through playing around that the 5x5 volume is no where too much for my shoulders, but only when I split it from back. For many years I trained back and shoulders together, and it worked really well as there is so much overlap between back and shoulders. But I think I also hit a point where neither would grow anymore if I kept them together, so splitting them might help
my new split is this
mon chest/calves
tues back
wed rest
thurs bis/tris/calves
fri quads/hams/abs
sat shoulders

PB, I do disagree with your thoughts on if you cant get it done in 3 days....if your goals are bodybuilder then you just cant specialize on everything like you need to in only 3 workouts. The 5x5 has put huge amounts of size on me over the years training 4 days a week, but to make my body competition ready and bring up everything to par, I need a 5th day now

 

[gottabadrash]

try dropping the incline smith bench for an incline dumbell press itll take some added stress off your shoulders.. and never train shoulders and back together.. its counterproductive IMO try a split with chest and shoulders or tris and shoulders.. if possible and take out front raises because your front delts are getting hammered during bench on mon and hammered again on military press on tues... side lats alone should suffice if it feels like to little throw in rear delt work...

thats my opinion and i think its super duper

 

[pullinbig]

I have found out through playing around that the 5x5 volume is no where too much for my shoulders, but only when I split it from back. For many years I trained back and shoulders together, and it worked really well as there is so much overlap between back and shoulders. But I think I also hit a point where neither would grow anymore if I kept them together, so splitting them might help
my new split is this
mon chest/calves
tues back
wed rest
thurs bis/tris/calves
fri quads/hams/abs
sat shoulders

PB, I do disagree with your thoughts on if you cant get it done in 3 days....if your goals are bodybuilder then you just cant specialize on everything like you need to in only 3 workouts. The 5x5 has put huge amounts of size on me over the years training 4 days a week, but to make my body competition ready and bring up everything to par, I need a 5th day now

to be honest needsize i fully believe that if you dropped the 5x5 and went to a straight PLing routine you would be bigger and stronger. you already have an advanced strenght/size base so i know that your numbers would take off on a PLing routine as would you size and thickness. two words prove this (for BBers) ronnie coleman.

you been around PLing and you see the size of these guys.

i see you fianlly moved shoulder day back.

you are one of the few who can train with frequency but most cant. we have two guys at our gym who can train 5-6 days a week and not overtrain. they are deffnately in the minority.

i would never suggest a 5 day split to anyone. in fact i start my trainees off at the gym on 2xw. very effective for adding size and strenght. after a couple of months we go to three days per week.

IAs routines, dc's routines, MM routines, my routines are all based on 2-3 days per week.

all these comments are made with bookoo respect to you bro.

 

[Soul Rebel]

I agree I was just going to post on how doing shoulders the day after doing chest is stopping my gains on the 5x5. I really like the routine so far and I have gained both size and strength, but I was going to move shoulders around to another day to see if I could get better results. Pullinbig, when you say PLing routine, specifically which one would you say to try and follow. I ask this because I am maxing out on certain lifts (I fear) but also I would just like to know what the big boys are doing.

 

[pullinbig]

I agree I was just going to post on how doing shoulders the day after doing chest is stopping my gains on the 5x5. I really like the routine so far and I have gained both size and strength, but I was going to move shoulders around to another day to see if I could get better results. Pullinbig, when you say PLing routine, specifically which one would you say to try and follow. I ask this because I am maxing out on certain lifts (I fear) but also I would just like to know what the big boys are doing.

there are several. I have a basic one posted on page six of the dead lift sticky.

 

[iron addict]

Here is my take on some of the statements made:

Needsize stated that going to less days doesn't allow the oppurtunity to hit enough lifts for the variety needed to build a true competitive physique. There are two sides to this coin. One is that for many people as long as the lifts are picked wisely a great number of lifts is not needed. But in some cases, it sure helps. The problem is that MOST people just can't handle that many days in the gym. and of course the flip side to that coin is that MOST people just don't have what it takes to be a comptitive bodybuilder, so those that can handle a high workload going to the gym 5+ days of the week are those guys that are going to make it anyway.

Well that sucks, the statement I made and the implied statement of "you should be able to recover from that many sessions" just ruled out a shitload of potential BB'ers.

One of the BIGGEST problems is the guys that can handle the high workloads and high frequency ASSUME everyone else can. They are WRONG! After working with 100's if not 1000's over the course of the years (my client list is usually 50+ at any one time) I have come to the conclusion that no more than 20%, and in actuallty its likely closer to 15% of the trainees out there can handle 5 days a week in the gym. And most FAIL on 4 sessions unless the volume is LOW. It's just too much. And don't chime in that I am full of shit because you and your buddy hit the gym 6 days a week and grow like weeds. Go find 25 people to train. Train them and see where the cards fall. You will have a new perspective from you previously limited point of view.

OK we have a huge base of people that want detail to their physique, yet can't go to the gym enough days to provide the amount of lifts some need or want to apply. The solution? Quit doing fixed rotation routines. You don't need to do any particular lift every week to keep the muscle that the lift provided. many routines like DC's or WSB do a WIDE variety of lifts by rotating them in and out. You get the benefits of doing all the lifts, but are not forced into trying to fit them into every session.

That allows one to train 2-3 days a week as recovery allows and still hit pleanty of lifts.

On the other hand, I sure have seen some big mo' fo's that did little but bench, squat, deadlift, rows and pressing, and variations of them--lol.

Iron Addict

 

[needsize]

I dont train with 5x5 anymore as it doesnt allow the focus that I need to bring up the small things for competition. And thats the thing, there is no way a powerlifter routine would give the focus where I need it, in fact, I've had to cut way back on a lot of powerlifting stuff like deads, to allow the focus where I need it for the stage. For example, my upper back and rear delts need a lot of work, especially upper back width. And despite deadlifting over 550lbs raw for easy reps, those part wont grow. So I do deads once every 3 weeks now, and concentrate on lots of sets on the areas that need it, and they exploded. Powerlifting approaches are great for overall mass, but not the finishing touches.

The routine I've been following has been my own version of what dorian yates used to do, and its been working great. for size and strength. Now I have combined it with the routines of Laura Binetti/Scott Abel(pro body builders who are top trainers in this area), so I expect some big stuff from it

 

[needsize]

some good points iron addict....
I never used to be able to handle higher volume, but at this point I have about 12-14 years in the gym, which does help, and I currently run veyr high dosed cycles. In all the years 've spent at it, going from 125lbs - 260lbs, I've found the really low volume stuff doesnt work for me, I really wish it did, but its not in the cards for me. But neither is the super high volume stuff either, I am right in the middle

 

[iron addict]

Agreed that once you are at a solid competitive level the detail begins to be very important and takes up training time and requires more lifts. Most people need such problems--lol.

What is funny is the fact that as most people progress they are slowly able to add workload productively, while others end up having to decrease in order to recover. A lot of that is intimitely tied to gear use, and overall conditioning. Those in better shape can GENERALLY do more than the guys that only lift, and or lift at a slow pace.

Iron Addict

 

[powerlifter53]

I have only been lifting for 3 years and know nothing compared to you guys(which is why I came to this board) but 5x5 has worked great for me so far. I'm in my 8th week in this routine and i can notice a good difference in my size and strength. I also train my shoulders and back the same day and have no trouble recovering at any time in this routine. Just my experience with 5x5.

 

[pullinbig]

needsize plers do a lot of heavy back work. deads is not the only thing we do for back. lots of rows/pull downs from differing angles. if thats not upper back work i dont know what is. i know dorian loved reverse narrow grip pull downs and we use these as well. they deffinatly hit the back hard. i like them and have them in my basic routine posted.

glad to hear you off the 5x5.

anyway i hear what you saying, but i am just making a point for the masses. you are in the small % of folks.

i would stil love for ytou to try a straight PLing routine fo r12 weeks and see where it takes you. hell PLers only pull full pulls 1-2 times per month. its too much to try more than that.

nice thread.

 

[needsize]

needsize plers do a lot of heavy back work. deads is not the only thing we do for back. lots of rows/pull downs from differing angles. if thats not upper back work i dont know what is. i know dorian loved reverse narrow grip pull downs and we use these as well. they deffinatly hit the back hard. i like them and have them in my basic routine posted.

glad to hear you off the 5x5.

anyway i hear what you saying, but i am just making a point for the masses. you are in the small % of folks.

i would stil love for ytou to try a straight PLing routine fo r12 weeks and see where it takes you. hell PLers only pull full pulls 1-2 times per month. its too much to try more than that.

nice thread.

I used to train like a powerlifter, and may go back to it someday, but my body cant handle it the way it used to. Too many years of doing dumb stuff in the gym has left me with a ton of injuries(mostly from first few years of training). But I will do anything to get where I need to. This current routine does seem to be doing the trick, and I've watched others get massive on it. A local cop is the perfect example. Hes 6'1" and was around 230lbs at one point, he started hitting it hard following the binetti routines, and got up to almost 300lbs in one year, and was on stage shredded at the end of that year at 237lbs for his first show.

I did just run into my old training partner, who wants to train with me again sometimes. Hes about 5'6", 290lbs, and just squatted 890lbs and benched 614lbs in competition, so he would be a good one to follow into the powerlifting style

 

[pullinbig]

the first year i trained as a PLer my weight went from 240 to 315.

damn 5'6" and 290. thats the same size as kirk karwoski. thick bastard.

good luck training around injuries i know how that feels. sucks ass but you gotta do what you gotta do.