A Question For Dr.jmw, Swale & Exp. Members

[FEEDDMACHINE]

Hello to everyone,

I have a friend that came up to me the other & asked me if I could help him get back on the right track & also put him on some program to get his system started back up. I told him that I was member here at Steroidology & that we have alot of great Docs & members here that could help out or come up with a solution. He is 30 years old, has been jucing for the last 7 years, and for the last year he has been feeling very suppressed & no sex drive at all. He had blood work done last month and his total test was 130, free test & estrogen were both below normal. He told me that his balls are not as full as they used to be, but again they are also not small as raisins. He feels normal in the gym, and he doesent have a problem maintaing his weight. He's only problem is having zero sex drive and fells lazy or tired at times. He's 5'10 and weighs about 220 pounds, 10-12% bodyfat. Also has been clean for the last year.

Dr.JMW,
I remember few months back you helping out a member here which was suppressed for a long time much like my friend.

This was your proposed idea,
HCG weeks 1-3 at 2000 IU 3 times a week
50mg clomid ed along with 20mg nolvadex ed for up to 6 weeks.

Would you suggest him running the same program?
Can anyone please with experience give me some feedback,

thank you all,

 

[Realgains]

The docs script was a good one..

I helped a client(trainee) with a similar problem with a very similar plan.

...but after the three weeks of the higher dose I would do hcg at 500iu's every 3rd-4th day for another couple weeks. After discontinuing the hcg I would continue with nolva at 20/day for another week.

If he doesn't have any hcg then he needs to jump on a SERM hard....do 300 of clomid the first day in divided doses and then 100 a day for a week and then 50 a day for 3 weeks....OR....Nolva at 80mg on day one and then 40/day for a week and then 20 a day for three weeks.

He must get his testes back to normal for normal T production to resume...130 is terrible.

A week after stopping all the support he needs to get his T re-checked.

Next time he does a cycle be darn sure he reads about HCG and PREVENTS atrophy with hcg at 500iu's every 3-4 days.

RG

 

[EZstreet]

FEEDDMACHINE:

You said about everything other than how long he's been off?
IF he's been juicing for 7 years and been off like 1 year as it seems you're saying I wouldn't think doing the above mentioned routine would be more than a temporary fix. More like permenant HRT.
But I'm no doctor.

 

[DrJMW]

I would try a recovery cycle as I have outlined and get retested. It is like jumpstarting your car--It may be the only thing he needs. If, after acouple fo recovery cycles, no changesa re noted on blood testing and subjective observations, then he is a candidate for HRT.

 

[DrJMW]

BTW, I RECOMMEND 1,000 U OF HCG, IM, MONDAY, WEDNESDAY AND FRIDAY FOR THE FIRST THREE WEEKS. ALSO, TAKE 50MG CLOMID AND 20MG NOLVA AND CONTINUE THE ORALS FOR SIX MORE WEEKS, THEN RETEST BLOOD TESTOS LEVELS, LH, FSH, AND PROLACTIN.

 

[FEEDDMACHINE]

DrJMW,

so your saying to do: weeks 1 to 3 / 1000Iu of hcg on mon,wed,friday
weeks 1 to 6/ 50mg clomid & 20mg nolv ed.

My question is when to start the clomid & nolv? from week 1 with hcg or wait till week 3?

thank you again for your help

 

[fame2002]

u do not want to do clomid, and hcg at teh same time, big no-no.

 

[liftsiron]

I would suggest doses no higher than 500ius of hcg eod for three weeks, because higher daily doses my reduce LH, increase aromatase and further suppress the htpa. I feel better safe than sorry when it comes to this matter. Then I would run nolva as realgains has laid out. It will not hurt post cycle therapy (pct) to run 25 to 50 mgs of proviron ed to get the libedo back either.

 

[FEEDDMACHINE]

bump

 

[FEEDDMACHINE]

I have done this and it worked wonders. What is the reasoning behind this?

I remember you trying a similar program few months back, can you tell me what it was & if it worked for you? did you get your sex drive and energy levels back?

how do you like your current cycle?

thanks,

 

[fame2002]

I have done this and it worked wonders. What is the reasoning behind this?

hcg and clomid together affect eachother negativley, they counter act each other. Hcg keeps your htpa surpressed, the whole point behind clomid is to restore it, its best to use hcg, and then start teh clomid once the hcg therapy is done.

 

[SWALE]

Never do more than 500IU of HCG at a time. The rest is wasted, increases aromatase activity needlessly, and desensitizes the Leydig cells.

There is absolutely no reason to use BOTH Nolvadex AND Clomid at the same time. Either alone is suficient for PCT.

 

[FEEDDMACHINE]

Never do more than 500IU of HCG at a time. The rest is wasted, increases aromatase activity needlessly, and desensitizes the Leydig cells.

There is absolutely no reason to use BOTH Nolvadex AND Clomid at the same time. Either alone is suficient for post cycle therapy (pct).

my freind has been clean for a year- so what you are recommanding is for post cycle or actually kick starting the system back up?

Could you give me your advice on how to kick start his body back up after being off for a year? He tells me his boys are their but not as big as they used to be & he just feels totally shut down

thank you,

 

[Stillgoing]

my freind has been clean for a year- so what you are recommanding is for post cycle or actually kick starting the system back up?

Could you give me your advice on how to kick start his body back up after being off for a year? He tells me his boys are their but not as big as they used to be & he just feels totally shut down

thank you,

Wait a minute, he's been clean for a year and he needs a restart?? His body should be ready to go after a year off. Did I miss something? If I haven't, and he doesn't feel right, he needs to get bloodwork done before he considers anything. Then discuss the results of that bloodwork with a doc. If his test is still low, likely he should try a post cycle therapy (pct) run, if that doesn't work, he may be headed towards HRT.

 

[DrJMW]

DrJMW,

so your saying to do: weeks 1 to 3 / 1000Iu of hcg on mon,wed,friday
weeks 1 to 6/ 50mg clomid & 20mg nolv ed.

My question is when to start the clomid & nolv? from week 1 with hcg or wait till week 3?

thank you again for your help

Start the Nolva/Clomid the same time you start the HCG--week one. BTW, I got this regimen from an endocrinologist that works with athletes who have been suppressed for long periods of time. I do agree with Swale's recommendation as well; I know mine works as I am sure his works as well--since we both have seen clinical success.

 

[FEEDDMACHINE]

Start the Nolva/Clomid the same time you start the HCG--week one. BTW, I got this regimen from an endocrinologist that works with athletes who have been suppressed for long periods of time. I do agree with Swale's recommendation as well; I know mine works as I am sure his works as well--since we both have seen clinical success.

one more question, Should the nolvadex and clomid (pills) be taken at the same time or should it be spread apart like lets say nolvadex in the morning and clomid before bed? not sure if it really matters

again my freind was thankful for your time & great advice