Ask Anything You Want about TRT Thread........

[Megatron28]

They say low SHBG is linked to cardiovascular disease.
TRT guys usually have lower SHBG levels...
Whats the connection that you would make between the two?

Must mean guys on TRT consume more olive oil than the average guy.

I didn't know TRT patients have lower SHBG levels. What causes that? How much lower is it generally? Any studies on the matter that you can share? I am interested in learning more about this.

 

[Alpin]

Must mean guys on TRT consume more olive oil than the average guy.

I didn't know TRT patients have lower SHBG levels. What causes that? How much lower is it generally? Any studies on the matter that you can share? I am interested in learning more about this.

All I know is Androgens(TRT) lowers SHBG.

 

[Megatron28]

All I know is Androgens(TRT) lowers SHBG.

How do you know that? What causes it?

 

[Megatron28]

All I know is Androgens(TRT) lowers SHBG.

I am finding mixed results out there regarding androgens lowering SHBG. Here is a study saying they have minimal effect when injected. But like I said, seems to be other conflicting studies out there. I would appreciate it if you could share what you know about this Apollon.

Randomized clinical trial of testosterone replacement therapy in hy... - PubMed - NCBI

We have compared the pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of the three commonly used testosterone formulations in a prospective, randomized cross-over clinical trial. Plasma free and total testosterone and their ratio (proportion of unbound testosterone), sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG), oestradiol, LH and FSH were measured in 15 hypogonadal men (nine hyper- and six hypogonadotrophic) who underwent, in a randomized sequence, three treatment periods each separated by an intervening washout period. The treatments were: (i) intramuscular injection of 250 mg mixed testosterone esters at 2-weekly intervals, (ii) oral testosterone undecanoate 120 mg bd, and (iii) subcutaneous testosterone pellets (6 x 100 mg). Pellet implantation gave the most prolonged effect with free and total testosterone levels being elevated for up to 4 months. This was accompanied by prompt and sustained suppression of plasma LH and FSH, an increase in plasma levels of oestradiol but no change in SHBG levels. In contrast, intramuscular injections induced marked but reproducible week-to-week fluctuations in free and total testosterone, which resulted in a small decrease in plasma SHBG levels, less marked suppression of LH and FSH and a smaller increase in plasma levels of oestradiol. Oral testosterone undecanoate produced the most variable plasma levels of free and total testosterone with a peak in the first treatment week and a fall thereafter and, despite maintenance of testosterone levels within the physiological range, there was no significant suppression of plasma levels of LH and FSH, and oestradiol levels were unchanged but levels of SHBG and total cholesterol were decreased. Free testosterone levels were increased disproportionately during testosterone treatment as the proportion of unbound testosterone was increased by all three treatments. All three testosterone preparations lowered plasma levels of urea and all were without biochemical or haematological toxicity. Reported sexual function was better maintained and side-effects were fewer with parenteral compared with oral treatments. The marked decrease in SHBG and cholesterol levels during oral testosterone undecanoate, when compared with parenteral treatments, occurred despite lesser androgenic effects (suppression of gonadotrophin levels and reported sexual function), which suggests that the liver is exposed to excessive androgenic load via the portal vein during oral treatment with testosterone esters. It is concluded that testosterone pellets give the closest approximation to zero-order (steady-state) delivery conditions for up to 4 months after a single insertion.

 

[Alpin]

How do you know that? What causes it?

a respected member told me thru our discussions on the matter. I'll respect their privacy though.
I think he would know his stuff. If you want PM me for more details.

 

[Alpin]

Mega

I know when I took a trough level blood test and measured TT, ESTRADIOL, BIO AVAIL.T these were the results:

TT: 598 ng/dl
E2: 44 PG/ML
BIO AVAIL.T: 15.1 nmol / l (range: 2.5-18nmol)

Now that is a very high bio avail T level for a mediocre Testosterone level and we know highish or high normal Estradiol lowers Bio Avail.T. I have had numerous blood work showing even lower estradiol (by 20 pg/ml) and TT within 90 ng/dl of 600 ....
and bio avail.T was half that (15.1 nmol / l)
I never had SHBG tested....
but I think its fair to say it was lowered some to reach higher BIO AVAIL.T levels.
What's your take on the subject?

 

[Megatron28]

Mega

I know when I took a trough level blood test and measured TT, ESTRADIOL, BIO AVAIL.T these were the results:

TT: 598 ng/dl
E2: 44 PG/ML
BIO AVAIL.T: 15.1 nmol / l (range: 2.5-18nmol)

Now that is a very high bio avail T level for a mediocre Testosterone level and we know highish or high normal Estradiol lowers Bio Avail.T. I have had numerous blood work showing even lower estradiol (by 20 pg/ml) and TT within 90 ng/dl of 600 ....
and bio avail.T was half that (15.1 nmol / l)
I never had SHBG tested....
but I think its fair to say it was lowered some to reach higher BIO AVAIL.T levels.
What's your take on the subject?

See post # 1032 again. I included studies showing that estrogen actually increases SHBG (among other things).

Keep in mind that estrogen binds to SHBG as well therefore more testosterone is left to remain unbound.

Your lower estrogen probably decreased your SHBG.

Have you investigated what affects your albumin levels? That should be considered as well when looking at bioavailable.

 

[Alpin]

See post # 1032 again. I included studies showing that estrogen actually increases SHBG (among other things).

Keep in mind that estrogen binds to SHBG as well therefore more testosterone is left to remain unbound.

Your lower estrogen probably decreased your SHBG.

Have you investigated what affects your albumin levels? That should be considered as well when looking at bioavailable.

I see

 

[Jimstigator]

I just wanted to share some studies. They show SERMs and estrogen can raise SHBG. Based on all the studies it sounds like a lot of things are at play here, so who knows what the actual mechanism is. I don't have a firm conclusion other than it is probably complicated. The last study says clomid lowers Free T while raising SHBG. Some of the studies are on women and may not apply directly to men as well.

Jim: Anything else we should be looking at?. I didn't do an exhaustive review of the research out there so I easily could have missed something.

Holy shit Megatron. Nice finds. Generally the stuff I spout around here is somewhat based on my own reading of studies, but moreso based on personal experiences with the drugs. These are some wild studies for sure and an awesome read. I suppose it might hurt my credibility a bit around here, but I rarely quote studies when providing info... BUT... this makes me want to dig more, as a all of these are relevant to a restart and/or short/long term use of a SERM.

I have nothing to add study wise, but will say that pre-Nolvadex/Clomid, my SHBG was consistently 20-22 (16.5-55.9). Throughout the SERMs, it reached 46 and stayed there after a few months. Since getting on TRT, its dropped back to 22.

Potentially relevant (and I am digging for the studies now which I had saved somewhere), SERMs may lower the effectiveness of AIs. Likely a result of the steady and increased LH your body pumps as a result of the SERM. I don't see much about it around here, but other forums refer to this mythical beast as "Intertesticular Testosterone" and the associated estrogen levels. Rumor has it, this mechanism of estrogen generation in the testes bypasses the mechanisms of arimidex. And no, I 100% do not have a study for this - bro science to the max. I had one hell of a time managing my E while on Nolva. I dosed adex at 1.5mg a week to keep a TT 900 and an E2 25. On testosterone injections, as you have seen in my other threads, I can't get my E2 over 20... period.

-Jim

 

[Alpin]

Mega

I know when I took a trough level blood test and measured TT, ESTRADIOL, BIO AVAIL.T these were the results:

TT: 598 ng/dl
E2: 44 PG/ML
BIO AVAIL.T: 15.1 nmol / l (range: 2.5-18nmol)

Now that is a very high bio avail T level for a mediocre Testosterone level and we know highish or high normal Estradiol lowers Bio Avail.T. I have had numerous blood work showing even lower estradiol (by 20 pg/ml) and TT within 90 ng/dl of 600 ....
and bio avail.T was half that (15.1 nmol / l)
I never had SHBG tested....
but I think its fair to say it was lowered some to reach higher BIO AVAIL.T levels.
What's your take on the subject?

I know that with a similar panel done off everything and 9 years younger..
TT 582 ng / dl
Estradiol 120-130 pmol / l
Bio Avail.T 8.6 nmol / l ( range : 2-18 nmol / l)
This was not on anything. ...
I believe SHBG was high 30's maybe??
I will def find out soon as I have files from a GP i left transfering over To me.

 

[Megatron28]

Holy shit Megatron. Nice finds. Generally the stuff I spout around here is somewhat based on my own reading of studies, but moreso based on personal experiences with the drugs. These are some wild studies for sure and an awesome read. I suppose it might hurt my credibility a bit around here, but I rarely quote studies when providing info... BUT... this makes me want to dig more, as a all of these are relevant to a restart and/or short/long term use of a SERM.

I have nothing to add study wise, but will say that pre-Nolvadex/Clomid, my SHBG was consistently 20-22 (16.5-55.9). Throughout the SERMs, it reached 46 and stayed there after a few months. Since getting on TRT, its dropped back to 22.

Potentially relevant (and I am digging for the studies now which I had saved somewhere), SERMs may lower the effectiveness of AIs. Likely a result of the steady and increased LH your body pumps as a result of the SERM. I don't see much about it around here, but other forums refer to this mythical beast as "Intertesticular Testosterone" and the associated estrogen levels. Rumor has it, this mechanism of estrogen generation in the testes bypasses the mechanisms of arimidex. And no, I 100% do not have a study for this - bro science to the max. I had one hell of a time managing my E while on Nolva. I dosed adex at 1.5mg a week to keep a TT 900 and an E2 25. On testosterone injections, as you have seen in my other threads, I can't get my E2 over 20... period.

-Jim

What you are thinking of is the fact that Tamoxifen and Anastrozole should not be used together due to there being an adverse drug interaction.

Drug Interaction Report - Drugs.com[]=major&types[]=minor&types[]=moderate&types[]=food&professional=1

GENERALLY AVOID: Coadministration with tamoxifen may decrease the plasma concentrations of anastrozole. The mechanism of interaction has not been described. In one clinical trial, coadministration of tamoxifen (20 mg/day) and anastrozole (1 mg/day) in breast cancer patients resulted in decreased anastrozole plasma concentration by 27% compared to administration of anastrozole alone. In addition, at a median follow-up of 33 months, the combination did not demonstrate any efficacy benefit over tamoxifen therapy alone in all patients as well as in the hormone receptor-positive subpopulation, and this treatment arm was discontinued from the trial. The pharmacokinetics of tamoxifen and its pharmacologically active N-desmethyl metabolite were not affected.

And the other term you are thinking of is Intratesticular Aromatization. It is thought to be caused by hCG.

Intratesticular site of aromatization in the human. - PubMed - NCBI

http://press.endocrine.org/doi/abs/...id=ori:rid:crossref.org&rfr_dat=cr_pub=pubmed

Acute stimulation of aromatization in Leydig cells by human chorionic gonadotropin in vitro.

There are probably better studies out there, but I didn't spend too much time looking.

 

[Jimstigator]

What you are thinking of is the fact that Tamoxifen and Anastrozole should not be used together due to there being an adverse drug interaction.

Drug Interaction Report - Drugs.com[]=major&types[]=minor&types[]=moderate&types[]=food&professional=1

GENERALLY AVOID: Coadministration with tamoxifen may decrease the plasma concentrations of anastrozole. The mechanism of interaction has not been described. In one clinical trial, coadministration of tamoxifen (20 mg/day) and anastrozole (1 mg/day) in breast cancer patients resulted in decreased anastrozole plasma concentration by 27% compared to administration of anastrozole alone. In addition, at a median follow-up of 33 months, the combination did not demonstrate any efficacy benefit over tamoxifen therapy alone in all patients as well as in the hormone receptor-positive subpopulation, and this treatment arm was discontinued from the trial. The pharmacokinetics of tamoxifen and its pharmacologically active N-desmethyl metabolite were not affected.

And the other term you are thinking of is Intratesticular Aromatization. It is thought to be caused by hCG.

Intratesticular site of aromatization in the human. - PubMed - NCBI

http://press.endocrine.org/doi/abs/...id=ori:rid:crossref.org&rfr_dat=cr_pub=pubmed

Acute stimulation of aromatization in Leydig cells by human chorionic gonadotropin in vitro.

There are probably better studies out there, but I didn't spend too much time looking.

Yes and yes, great finds. All in line with my personal human science experiment findings. With the HCG studies and ITT, I would imagine the same goes for a SERM, where you are essentially eliminating your bodies control of LH production. The excess HGC and/or LH can cause somewhat difficult to control intratesticular aromatization.

-Jim

 

[chewysmallz]

I am 33 years old from canada. I use to be a power lifter in my early 20s. i was benching 525 lbs at 245lbs. squatting 475 box squats 4 sets of 12 at 400lbs since then i got injured on a job working out when i can but i feel like my attempt to make or even keep what i had is going down hill in a mud slide. no matter how hard i try even with our natural supplements and what not nothing is working. i was taking prohormones at the time but i am certain that my muscle is turning to flab its effing depressing. when i first met my girlfriend i had a hard on all day long now. ill want to have sex maybe 2-3 times a week. God help me. I'm seriously thinking about going on deca or sustain just don't know to many credible sources. My doc is chinese maybe weights like 120, so me being now 340lbs at 6'5 he thinks i'm morbidly obese doesn't help the cause. Im sure he wont help me in this cause. Any suggestions I can always cross the border if need be

 

[Megatron28]

I am 33 years old from canada. I use to be a power lifter in my early 20s. i was benching 525 lbs at 245lbs. squatting 475 box squats 4 sets of 12 at 400lbs since then i got injured on a job working out when i can but i feel like my attempt to make or even keep what i had is going down hill in a mud slide. no matter how hard i try even with our natural supplements and what not nothing is working. i was taking prohormones at the time but i am certain that my muscle is turning to flab its effing depressing. when i first met my girlfriend i had a hard on all day long now. ill want to have sex maybe 2-3 times a week. God help me. I'm seriously thinking about going on deca or sustain just don't know to many credible sources. My doc is chinese maybe weights like 120, so me being now 340lbs at 6'5 he thinks i'm morbidly obese doesn't help the cause. Im sure he wont help me in this cause. Any suggestions I can always cross the border if need be

You need to get blood work to see what is going on. Read the Basic TRT Overview to get a better understanding of what blood work should be run and a better understanding of hypogonadism. I am not saying you have hypogonadism, but you may.

 

[4150]

I read in here the other day and everyone was ranting about how HCG improved their TRT regimen and how it made their orgasms so much better. Does HCG help improve sex drive as well? My wife and I still have sex almost every day but I don't have the same drive that I had before. I keep thinking it will come back but now having my doubts.

 

[Megatron28]

I read in here the other day and everyone was ranting about how HCG improved their TRT regimen and how it made their orgasms so much better. Does HCG help improve sex drive as well? My wife and I still have sex almost every day but I don't have the same drive that I had before. I keep thinking it will come back but now having my doubts.

I have not noticed a libido effect with hCG personally. Unless you say that by sex feeling better that I am inclined to want more of it. But I haven't noticed any really change in libido. Higher TT levels however do affect my libido dramatically.

 

[cybrsage]

I noticed my orgasms are more powerful feeling, but HCG does nothing for my libido. Most likely the reduction in sex drive is what most of us call "getting older". When I was a teenager, I literally had sex 12 times in one night (8pm to 3am), all to glorious completion. My girlfriend and I were having a sex contest with a friend of mine and his girlfriend - I won, but only by one time. Now, even a third of that in one 7 hour time frame is an impossibility.

 

[Megatron28]

i noticed my orgasms are more powerful feeling, but hcg does nothing for my libido. Most likely the reduction in sex drive is what most of us call "getting older". when i was a teenager, i literally had sex 12 times in one night (8pm to 3am), all to glorious completion. My girlfriend and i were having a sex contest with a friend of mine and his girlfriend - i won, but only by one time. Now, even a third of that in one 7 hour time frame is an impossibility.

tmi

 

[4150]

I have not noticed a libido effect with hCG personally. Unless you say that by sex feeling better that I am inclined to want more of it. But I haven't noticed any really change in libido. Higher TT levels however do affect my libido dramatically.

I assume you mean the higher your total test level the higher your sex drive? I haven't noticed a lot of that. However, I steadily have 5-9 orgasms a week so maybe I don't have any build up time. Megatron, I see you added HCG after several years on TRT without it. So it's possible to bring the family jewels back to life after that long? I may want to add HCG later on so this is something that interests me.

 

[Atlaz]

I have two questions ....feel free to answer !

1. If free T4 and T3 are low can you solely take medication for that which therefor increases testosterone naturally ?

2. Is it possible to have a muscular body type ( mesomorph ) and have low Testosterone ?