Blood pressure--How high is to high on cycle?

[skullcrusher1]

I normally have normal to low BP and the doc or nurse congratulates me and comments on how good it is. OFF cycle.

Well I found a BP machine in my house (house used to be grand parents) and at a few different points in my cycle I tested BP and it was normal (118 / 85) approx.
Well I am now at week 12 and have just added D-bol 50mg/day 3 days ago--tested BP today 145 / 100.

at what point does it get dangerous

 

[Kane_Red_Machine]

it vary person to person.

what your doc comment as a good result, is the plateau.

 

[skullcrusher1]

it vary person to person.

what your doc comment as a good result, is the plateau.

What do you mean the plateau?

 

[BimmerDude]

I normally have normal to low BP and the doc or nurse congratulates me and comments on how good it is. OFF cycle.

Well I found a BP machine in my house (house used to be grand parents) and at a few different points in my cycle I tested BP and it was normal (118 / 85) approx.
Well I am now at week 12 and have just added D-bol 50mg/day 3 days ago--tested BP today 145 / 100.

at what point does it get dangerous

It is not a person to person thing. High blood pressure is called 'the silent killer' for a reason. Whether you're a big fat guy or a little skinny guy makes no difference. The parameters remain the same. What you need to watch is whether it is consistently higher than the normal parameters, not just a one-time high reading.

Strive for somewhere in the region of 110/70. Some practitioners use the standard 120/80 guideline, and thats ok, too. I would use 5 to 10 mm/hg above 120/80 as my marker. If it goes higher and stays higher than that then thats your warning sign that you need to do something to drop it. And just so you know, its not unusual for steroids to cause an increase in BP so ask your doc for PRN blood pressure meds and keep monitoring it every day.

145/100 is much too high. The good thing about this is that it takes a while before high blood pressure actually does serious damage---but it IS causing slow damage nevertheless, and the longer it stays high the more damage it does and the more it increases your risk for other acute and chronic alterations, so get it under control early.

 

[Greybeard]

I'm getting a new Doc and I'm going to demand he get my BP down below the 120/80 mark.

 

[Cobra Strike]

As being a med student I take a ton of bp readings everyday...personally when I run my cycle I auscultate my own bp twice a week. I run anywhere from 130/76 to 140-5/76. Its totally fine. I am 30 years old as well. Off cycle I sit around 120/76. You could run that high of bp for 20 weeks and be fine. It doesnt cause damage that fast...I'd say very very minimal if any at all. People can have high bp for years before they see any signs of damage to their organs. BP damage comes from constant hypertension. Some people that just come into the hospital run 150/80 just because they are in a hospital. So unless you have a constantly high bp on and off cycle I wouldnt worry about it to much but I would definitely watch it!

 

[Dreaded Pirate Roberts]

Drop the dball and pickup some letro. It the water and estrogen. High BP is very serious and can cause permanent heart damage.

It is never except-able to have elevated BP EVER. If you are training your bp should be 125 over 68. Your supposed to be in shape

 

[tomchase12000]

Water retention is causing this increase. Drop the dbol, watch your sodium, or add the letro. You're not causing permanent damage, and it's your kidneys that would be hurt before your heart.


120/80 was old standard, now they're saying 110/70. We use different levels beyond 120/80 to stage the hypertension (HTN). DO NOT GET PRN BLOOD PRESSURE MEDS! They make you feel like shit, erectile dysfunction is a common side effect along with rebound HTN when you stop. We usually start with diuretics before ACE inhibitors or betablockers. Dosages need to be adjusted based on results and side effects. Trying to balance temporary HTN from steroids with meds is retarded.

Dread Pirate Roberts- There's more to HTN than being in shape. PRIMARY HTN refers to HTN without a known cause and it makes up the majority of HTN. It means you're not fat, old, diabetic, or out of shape but still have HTN. When I was in school they latest theory was a problem with the Renin Angiotensin Aldosterone System (RAAS).

 

[Italiano SPO]

Water retention is causing this increase. Drop the dbol, watch your sodium, or add the letro. You're not causing permanent damage, and it's your kidneys that would be hurt before your heart.


120/80 was old standard, now they're saying 110/70. We use different levels beyond 120/80 to stage the hypertension (HTN). DO NOT GET PRN BLOOD PRESSURE MEDS! They make you feel like shit, erectile dysfunction is a common side effect along with rebound HTN when you stop. We usually start with diuretics before ACE inhibitors or betablockers. Dosages need to be adjusted based on results and side effects. Trying to balance temporary HTN from steroids with meds is retarded.Dread Pirate Roberts- There's more to HTN than being in shape. PRIMARY HTN refers to HTN without a known cause and it makes up the majority of HTN. It means you're not fat, old, diabetic, or out of shape but still have HTN. When I was in school they latest theory was a problem with the Renin Angiotensin Aldosterone System (RAAS).

If that's your stance, you need to go back to med school. "IF" you get your MD or whatever it is you're going for, I hope nobody comes to you for help trying to get hypertension under control, especially someone who uses AAS. The damage is being done whether you have hypertension sometimes or all of the time. I use a low dose of lisinopril to keep mine down when using AAS and anyone who uses AAS should do the same if they notice their BP getting into that area that's considered to be high or borderline Hypertension.

 

[DocJ]

Dbol is probably the culprit. Diastolic (second number) is really what you need to keep an eye on in the short term, anything over 90 is a real concern, especially since your "normal" bp is well within normal limits.

 

[BimmerDude]

You're not causing permanent damage

Perhaps you should consider revising that. Chronic hypertension can and does cause chronic arterial and renal disease.

DO NOT GET PRN BLOOD PRESSURE MEDS! They make you feel like shit, erectile dysfunction is a common side effect along with rebound HTN when you stop.

This is a wild generalization. PRN blood pressure medications like clonidine and vasotec are prescribed alongside routine ones ALL the time. Patients who take them are instructed to monitor their blood pressure and to take the PRNs if and when the routine meds don't keep it within parameters.

Please also explain how "they make you feel like shit."

ED is a possible side effect but it is not a very common one. Some people who take beta blockers are probably more likely to experience ED. But there are many different types of blood pressure medications that physicians try with patients until they find one or a combination that controls the pressure and has negligible sides. People respond differently to different types of meds. I have many patients who take blood pressure medications and don't have any issues with ED.

True that some medications like catapress can cause rebound hypertension when you stop taking them, but the meds that are known to do this are usually not prescribed as the sole means of controlling blood pressure.

We usually start with diuretics before ACE inhibitors or betablockers. Dosages need to be adjusted based on results and side effects.

In my clinical practice I assess each patient and begin my treatment plan according to what is appropriate for that specific patient's condition, not just according to protocols in a book. For instance, hypertension isn't always related to volume overload so it isn't always appropriate to begin with diuretics as a first line of treatment.

Trying to balance temporary HTN from steroids with meds is retarded.

I disagree. I think it makes sense. If blood pressure is significantly elevated and stays significantly elevated during a steroid cycle, the goal of the individual is to lower the blood pressure and keep it lowered during the 12 or 16 weeks while on cycle. Once the individual comes off cycle, the steroid-induced hypertension will likely gradually and spontaneously resolve, and the individual will find that he doesn't need to keep taking the medications anymore. You're thinking clinically with your head in a box. Many guys here have posted that their blood pressure fluctuates up and down dependent on whether or not they're on cycle and using gear. This is a very different thing from having a chronic ongoing issue with hypertension, regardless of the etiology.

 

[endurance724]

if i ever find my BP high, i take some extra adex or aromasin. from my experiences its usually a side effect of estrogen. especially if im runnin dbol initially

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

I will have to agree and disagree with the comments above. If you have problems with your BP you should not be taking steroids at all. If you can control your BP with diet and AI's then so be it but if you have to take BP meds in order to cycle, then you shouldnt be cycling.

I have ran some higher doses of AAS and my BP has never been an issue.

No offense to anyone just my opinion.

 

[BimmerDude]

There are many different drugs besides anabolic steroids that people are encouraged by doctors to take all the time that can raise blood pressure and have dozens of other possible side effects---some of them severe and even potentially life threatening. I've never really understood why anabolic steroids get singled out with stern and dire warnings about blood pressure all the time, but not the others. But I have a theory about it.

The big pharmaceutical corporations have no chance of legally making obscene profits off anabolic steroids sales from athletes and bodybuilders in large markets where these products are either banned or very tightly controlled. In fact, they know they've lost the underground market to UGLs, and even some of them who used to be in the business of making pharm grade steroids dropped out of it years ago. I'd bet everything I own that if anabolics were legal to buy without a script everywhere and big pharma was making money off it that both they and the medical community would be singing a different song about the use of steroids and blood pressure management.

I wonder why they don't also scare people who have blood pressure issues with similar warnings not to take stimulants like ritalin, NSAIDS, immunosuppressants, decongestants, birth control pills, antedepressants, and many others? Gee, I wonder if maybe its because they're raking in billions in sales from these drugs every year, and a sizable chunk of that money ends up being kicked back to the doctors who write the scripts for the shit. Its supposed to be unethical and illegal, but it still happens.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/04/health/policy/04doctors.html

If you don't have time to read the whole thing here's an excerpt that sums up my point:

QUOTE: Dr. Richard Grimm, a Minnesota researcher, twice served on government-sponsored hypertension panels that create guidelines about when to prescribe blood pressure pills. But when state records revealed that he had earned more than $798,000 from drug companies from 1997 to 2005, invitations to serve on such panels dried up, he said.

"There's this automatic assumption that if you make money from a drug company, you must be corrupt," Dr. Grimm said. END QUOTE

Gee, what do you guys think about Dr. Grimm?

 

[tomchase12000]

BimmerDude, please read the original post again. Italian SPO, do the same. Both of you refer to CHRONIC HYPERTENSION in your responses to my post. I, correctly,wrote my response to the original poster using the data he supplied. The poster says he ONLY has HTN during cycles even then it's not for the entire cycle. I know it doesn't have to be volume overload, but it most likely is for this patient. "Feel like shit" was a reference to weakness and fatigue. ED is a common side effect of beta blockers. BimmerDude, a quick glance at the Davis Drug Guide will validate my claims. Never said I was a doctor, I'm actually an Emergency Room nurse. Feel free to call me a faggot now.




Adverse Reactions/Side Effects *


CNS: dizziness, drowsiness, fatigue, headache, insomnia, vertigo, weakness.
Resp: cough, dyspnea.
CV: hypotension, chest pain, edema, tachycardia.
Endo: hyperuricemia. GI: taste disturbances, abdominal pain, anorexia, constipation, diarrhea, nausea, vomiting.
GU: erectile dysfunction, proteinuria, renal dysfunction, renal failure.
Derm: flushing, pruritis, rashes.
F and E: hyperkalemia. Hemat: AGRANULOCYTOSIS, neutropenia (captopril only). MS: back pain, muscle cramps, myalgia.
Misc: ANGIOEDEMA, fever.

Adverse Reactions/Side Effects *
*CAPITALS indicate life threatening; underlines indicate most frequent.

CNS: fatigue, weakness, anxiety, depression, dizziness, drowsiness, insomnia, memory loss, mental status changes, nervousness, nightmares.
EENT: blurred vision, stuffy nose.
Resp: bronchospasm, wheezing.
CV: BRADYCARDIA, CHF, PULMONARY EDEMA, hypotension, peripheral vasoconstriction.
GI: constipation, diarrhea, liver function abnormalities, nausea, vomiting.
GU: erectile dysfunction, decreased libido, urinary frequency.
Derm: rashes.
Endo: hyperglycemia, hypoglycemia. MS: arthralgia, back pain, joint pain.
Misc: drug-induced lupus syndrome.