Body set points and the juice?

S

sleepstalker

I am banned!
I am curious for those people who take anabolics and have came off, can they keep their gains IF

1.They haven't reached their body dna muscle set point yet.(The maximum muscle they would have built naturally without the juice.

2. The dosages aren't outrageously high. If anything just enough to turn on the muscle recovery. Letting training and diet be the ones to work it.

3. Having a solid training and nutrition program that is individualized.


I dont see why one cannot keep their gains with these three things. The last thing that makes sense to me if someone is taking a boat load of stuff then of course they would lose alot and water weight.
 
sleepstalker said:
I am curious for those people who take anabolics and have came off, can they keep their gains IF

1.They haven't reached their body dna muscle set point yet.(The maximum muscle they would have built naturally without the juice.
Yes they can, assuming they are still under their genetic potential and continue to eat and train to maintain their size.
2. The dosages aren't outrageously high. If anything just enough to turn on the muscle recovery. Letting training and diet be the ones to work it.
Dosages won't make a difference on ability to keep gains. All that matters is the end result is still under genetic potential.
3. Having a solid training and nutrition program that is individualized.
correct


I dont see why one cannot keep their gains with these three things. The last thing that makes sense to me if someone is taking a boat load of stuff then of course they would lose alot and water weight.
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typically, the faster the gains are made, the harder it is to keep them. But even after a big cycle adding 30lbs, as long as you're still under your genetic limit, then you can keep the gains with proper diet and training.You will lose some during pct while you are recovering, but you can gain them back once your hormones are restored.
 
U think u gained 30lbs lol but u would be lucky to gain 5lbs of lean muscle from a cycle. So disturbing but it's reality
 
The huge drop in androgens in serum caused by negative feedback to the HPTA makes your body a suboptimal environment for muscle retention and anabolism. Steroids increase your muscle fiber content but a theory is that when you come off, they cannot sustain their size. They basically go to sleep. You know it as "muscle memory". This is where the controversy of whether taking steroids give you a permanent advantage come from. Add to the fact that the drop in strength makes it harder to continue training with the same intensity since androgens have an effect on the central nervous system as well(which is a large component of strength)
 
tbonexl said:
5lbs of muscle in a cycle? Try maybe 5lbs in a year...
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I'm a little confused here. I've ran cycles and definitely gained more then 5 lbs on a cycle while after the pct and everything I have kept more then 5 lbs of lean muscle since my body fat is the same as before cycle. I'm confused at your thinking of only keeping a minimal amount. For example my last cycle was test p 12 weeks 525 mg week. And I gained around 22 lbs then after pct and water weight was gone and over a month had passed I was still up around 13ish lbs from where I started while keeping the same body fat %
 
Bigboss12 said:
I'm a little confused here. I've ran cycles and definitely gained more then 5 lbs on a cycle while after the pct and everything I have kept more then 5 lbs of lean muscle since my body fat is the same as before cycle. I'm confused at your thinking of only keeping a minimal amount. For example my last cycle was test p 12 weeks 525 mg week. And I gained around 22 lbs then after pct and water weight was gone and over a month had passed I was still up around 13ish lbs from where I started while keeping the same body fat %
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that 13lbs was not all muscle. It was muscle, and fat as well. bf % is a ratio of muscle to fat so if you gain muscle AND fat, your bf% can still be the same because it remains the same ratio. make sense? plus there is visceral fat which is under the muscle that doesn't won't effect your bodyfat readings. visceral fat can also add weight.
 
so i have 7.5-8% body fat so of that 13 lbs only 1 pound was fat so i still gained 12 lbs of muscle. visceral fat is minuscule and doesn't accumulate unless you are pretty heavy on the fat side.
 
Bigboss12 said:
I'm a little confused here. I've ran cycles and definitely gained more then 5 lbs on a cycle while after the pct and everything I have kept more then 5 lbs of lean muscle since my body fat is the same as before cycle. I'm confused at your thinking of only keeping a minimal amount. For example my last cycle was test p 12 weeks 525 mg week. And I gained around 22 lbs then after pct and water weight was gone and over a month had passed I was still up around 13ish lbs from where I started while keeping the same body fat %
Click to expand...

You have to remember that with the extra muscle you are carrying, you will be carrying more weight in other stores too. Even if you gained no fat, since your muscles are larger they will be carrying more water weight (70% of muscle is water,) glycogen stores will be larger, connective tissue increases to deal with the extra weight AND you will doubtless be eating more (more food sitting in the gut.) All contributes to LBM gains.

Edit: Also someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I would also assume that with a significant increase in muscle mass you would also have an increase in blood volume? Something to think about.
 
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i weigh in the morning on an empty stomach and i get where everyone is coming from but assuming all that and since muscle is made of a lot of water that would still be muscular growth and weight. its definitely something ill research more.
 
Bigboss12 said:
so i have 7.5-8% body fat so of that 13 lbs only 1 pound was fat so i still gained 12 lbs of muscle. visceral fat is minuscule and doesn't accumulate unless you are pretty heavy on the fat side.
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sorry to rain on the parade... but, 7.5-8% body fat is very doubtable
 
Bigboss12 said:
i have pictures
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I have to agree with China_Wall, i kinda doubt what you said too lol.. 90% of places you go to measure your bodyfat are bullshitting you..

7.5-8% bodyfat you should have visible vascularity in your abs along with visible delt fibers showing and a clear 6 or 8 pack depending on your genetics along with some muscle fibers showing when you flex your quads...

Show pics bro
 
China_Wall said:
sorry to rain on the parade... but, 7.5-8% body fat is very doubtable
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im not here to get into some pissing contest about whether you think i have that body fat or not because i know how i look and what my percentage is. not to come across like a dick but personally it just doesn't bother me at all if you don't believe me. i just posted on this thread to hear more opinions about the amount of muscle kept from cycles and weight kept in general and i got a lot of good information and that is why i love ology because people with good information and experience can always provide detailed answers. and it just gives me one more subject to research more and learn as much as i can so i can help people out also with questions. what bothers me is that from this whole thread thats all you take from it and thats your input. the conversation and information was for me very informative and interesting. its funny how one person can ruin things like this. I'm not one to get upset or care but just don't talk crap when you don't know me. i know how my diet is and how strictly i follow it to stay looking how i want to and to stay lean and healthy. sorry for the rant...
 
Bigboss12 said:
im not here to get into some pissing contest about whether you think i have that body fat or not because i know how i look and what my percentage is. not to come across like a dick but personally it just doesn't bother me at all if you don't believe me. i just posted on this thread to hear more opinions about the amount of muscle kept from cycles and weight kept in general and i got a lot of good information and that is why i love ology because people with good information and experience can always provide detailed answers. and it just gives me one more subject to research more and learn as much as i can so i can help people out also with questions. what bothers me is that from this whole thread thats all you take from it and thats your input. the conversation and information was for me very informative and interesting. its funny how one person can ruin things like this. I'm not one to get upset or care but just don't talk crap when you don't know me. i know how my diet is and how strictly i follow it to stay looking how i want to and to stay lean and healthy. sorry for the rant...
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Sorry if im being a dick but you are the one who said u had pictures to prove it, i was just curious to see so i went in your profile and saw ur picture posted 29 october of this year and well although the lightning of the pic doesnt really help you, theres no way in hell you have 7,5-8% bodyfat.. more like 10-11%
 
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