If, in fact, adipose tissue has AR receptors, then tell me, what effect Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) has on adipose tissue? I would appreciate your posting or emailing me one study that demonstrates that adipose tissue has AR receptors and the effect that Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) have on those receptors.
For The Last Time...There's No Such Thing as a "CUTTING CYCLE".
- Thread starter Nelson Montana
- Start date
Adipose tissue is renown for having an abundance of the aromatase enzyme. So, one interaction of T with adipose tissue is conversion to estradiol compounds. So, we are back to that delicate balance between T levels and E levels. Men do need some E, but how much is the question.
A-TRAIN502
New member
I know that fat can be lost and muscle be gained simultaneously from personal experience. Try taking test, Winstrol (winny), dbol, t3, and clen (and proper training, diet, rest, cardio routine) at the same time in the proper doses with only a few cycles under the belt and clean for a year and a half and tell me it doesn't work for you.
TxLonghorn
Co-Founder
fatchops said:
I think this is the study I was thinking of...
1: Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1995 Sep;19(9):614-24 Related Articles, Books, LinkOut
Oral anabolic steroid treatment, but not parenteral androgen treatment, decreases abdominal fat in obese, older men.
Lovejoy JC, Bray GA, Greeson CS, Klemperer M, Morris J, Partington C, Tulley R.
Pennington Biomedical Research Center, Baton Rouge, Louisiana 70808-4124, USA.
OBJECTIVE: To compare the effects of testosterone enanthate (TE), anabolic steroid (AS) or placebo (PL) on regional fat distribution and health risk factors in obese middle-aged men undergoing weight loss by dietary means. DESIGN: Randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial, carried out for 9 months with primary assessments at 3 month intervals. Due to adverse blood lipid changes, the AS group was switched from oral oxandrolone (ASOX) to parenteral nandrolone decaoate (ASND) after the 3 month assessment point. SUBJECTS: Thirty healthy, obese men, aged 40-60 years, with serum testosterone (T) levels in the low-normal range (2-5 ng/mL). MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Abdominal fat distribution and thigh muscle volume by CT scan, body composition by dual energy X-ray absorptiometry (DEXA), insulin sensitivity by the Minimal Model method, blood lipids, blood chemistry, blood pressure, thyroid hormones and urological parameters. RESULTS: After 3 months, there was a significantly greater decrease in subcutaneous (SQ) abdominal fat in the ASOX group compared to the TE and PL groups although body weight changes did not differ by treatment group. There was also a tendency for the ASOX group to exhibit greater losses in visceral fat, and the absolute level of visceral fat in this group was significantly lower at 3 months than in the TE and PL groups. There were significant main effects of treatment at 3 months on serum T and free T (increased in the TE group and decreased in the ASOX group) and on thyroid hormone parameters (T4 and T3 resin uptake significantly decreased in the ASOX group compared with the other two groups). There was a significant decrease in HDL-C, and increase in LDL-C in the ASOX group, which led to their being switched to the parenteral nandrolone decanoate (ASND) after 3 months. ASND had opposite effects on visceral fat from ASOX, producing a significant increase from 3 to 9 months while continuing to decrease SQ abdominal fat. ASND treatment also decreased thigh muscle area, while ASOX treatment increased high muscle. ASND reversed the effects of ASOX on lipoproteins and thyroid hormones. The previously reported effect of T to decrease visceral fat was not observed, in fact, visceral fat in the TE group increased slightly from 3 to 9 months, although SQ fat continued to decrease. Neither TE nor AS treatment resulted in any change in urologic parameters. CONCLUSIONS: Oral oxandrolone decreased SQ abdominal fat more than TE or weight loss alone and also tended to produce favorable changes in visceral fat. TE and ASND injections given every 2 weeks had similar effects to weight loss alone on regional body fat. Most of the beneficial effects observed on metabolic and cardiovascular risk factors were due to weight loss per se. These results suggest that SQ and visceral abdominal fat can be independently modulated by androgens and that at least some anabolic steroids are capable of influencing abdominal fat.
bleachcola
New member
I wasn't trying to say what effect Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) have on adipose tissue. I was mearly pointing out that it is irresponsible to make definitive statements such as "Steroids are NOT fat burning drugs" when so little is known on the subject. I pointed out the fact that adipose tissue contains AR receptors and that tren users report a loss in subq fat to show that a person could make the reasonable hypothesis that certain Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) have fat burning properties. It's called the scientific process and many people on these boards like Nelson Montana love throwing it out the window and making wild, definitive statements with nothing to back them up. And for the studies, give me a minute and I'll post the ones that show adipose tissue contains AR receptors. I can't post any that show the effect Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) have on adipose tissue because they don't exist, that's why I'm not making any claims about it.
bleachcola
New member
Androgen Receptors in Human Preadipocytes and Adipocytes: Regional Specificities and Regulation by Sex Steroids
Am J Physiol. 1998 Jun;274(6 pt 1):C1645-52
"In conclusion, this study clearly demonstrates the presence of AR in human preadipocytes and adipocytes and suggests that androgens may contribute, through regulation of their own receptors, to the control of adipose tissue development"
*Notice how the real scientist only makes a definitive statement on that which he can prove. When mentioning the fat burning properties, he uses the terms like "suggest" and "may", showing that more studies need to be done before coming to a conclusion.
Am J Physiol. 1998 Jun;274(6 pt 1):C1645-52
"In conclusion, this study clearly demonstrates the presence of AR in human preadipocytes and adipocytes and suggests that androgens may contribute, through regulation of their own receptors, to the control of adipose tissue development"
*Notice how the real scientist only makes a definitive statement on that which he can prove. When mentioning the fat burning properties, he uses the terms like "suggest" and "may", showing that more studies need to be done before coming to a conclusion.
bleachcola
New member
Excellent point Ironmaster. The study I posted above also shows that the more affinity an androgen has for the AR the more the AR in adipocytes upregulates. Putting two and two together with the anecdotal evidence one could make a strong case against Nelson and DrJMW, but not a definitive point. Ah what the hell, just to play devil's advocate, I'm going to say that I believe tren does burn fat. I've laid out my reasons, I'd be interested to hear Nelson's and the Dr's reason why tren doesn't burn fat.
ironmaster
Community Veteran, HGH Guru
I don't think we need to limit this extrapolation to tren, either, bleachcola. Bill Roberts discusses this issue in a number of his articles.
"Differential effects of different Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) on human fat cells have also been seen.(10) Oxandrolone was most effective in reducing subcutaneous abdominal fat and visceral fat in obese middle-aged men while weight did not change, as a result of muscle mass increase. Testosterone enanthate gave a small decrease in subcutaneous fat but a slight increase in visceral fat. Nandrolone decanoate also increased visceral fat while decreasing subcutaneous fat." Sure looks to me like AAS's exert some type of direct effect on fat tissue.
I really enjoy this kind of debate, and this board is one of the few places left where it can be done amongst gentlemen without flames. Kudos to the administration.
"Differential effects of different Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) on human fat cells have also been seen.(10) Oxandrolone was most effective in reducing subcutaneous abdominal fat and visceral fat in obese middle-aged men while weight did not change, as a result of muscle mass increase. Testosterone enanthate gave a small decrease in subcutaneous fat but a slight increase in visceral fat. Nandrolone decanoate also increased visceral fat while decreasing subcutaneous fat." Sure looks to me like AAS's exert some type of direct effect on fat tissue.
I really enjoy this kind of debate, and this board is one of the few places left where it can be done amongst gentlemen without flames. Kudos to the administration.
Drveejay11
I am banned!
ironmaster said:
Good stuff IM
Warmachine
Your Girls Pay my Bills
running a cycle while cutting in order to maintain strength and muscle mass and aid in recovery= cutting cycle.
outlawtas
New member
call it what you will, you can use steroids to maintain muscle mass (possibly even gain) while cutting fat. Now, there aren't "cutting" steroids, however some do promote increased fat loss but if your goal is to get ripped, this will soley depend on diet/cardio and not steroids.
bleachcola
New member
It's a scientific fact that tren and anavar burn fat. Multiple medical studies and anecdotal evidence to support this claim as well.
simpllyhuge
New member
what about a calorie restriction cycle to mantain muscle.
G
getfitdoc
Guest
"lose fat maintain muscle cylcle"
or
LFMM cycle :>
or
LFMM cycle :>
S
Skarhead1
Guest
Nelson Montana said:
I have been saying this since ive researched gear!!!!!!! However, a lot of gear DOES speed up the metabolism though, IMO
Warmachine
Your Girls Pay my Bills
diet hard without juice and see what happens...its not pretty.
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