GH serum testing? flawed! back to IGF testing!

[Zeek]

Before I go into my rant I will say that I will still test both elitroopin and uncle z blue tops using serum gh testing protocol since ppl are awaiting and expecting those results.

Ever wonder why all doctors and clinics test IGF levels when they are dealing with patients on HGH? Because it is accurate that is why!

I reluctantly got sucked into this serum testing due to so many doing it on another board, against my own better judgement which was screaming IGF test > serum test for accuracy.

Here are the cold hard facts given to you by an old fart who has tested his IGF levels dozens of times over the years!!

in my testing it has worked but kep in mind i never go above 4-6 iu so while I can promise accuracy at those lower dosages I can't at the high ones cause I simply never tested on higher amounts.

1iu of high quality HGH will raise IGF-1 levels by 100 pts or better!! so If I inject 4iu I better see 400+ on an IGF test or I know it is time to find another brand. This has been my protocol for years and I'm going back to it out of frustration with the serum results being all over the damn place!

Here is the protocol that i follow if you want to test IGF levels...

Inject 4iu- 6iu of GH 1-3 hrs before you go in for testing. Be sure to eat something before you go. Do not do it fasted since how often in life are we fasting anyway? I like real results based on real life.

Inject it IM or sub Q, does not make a difference.


Sorry for my rant guys but after seeing another pharm grade testing at 13 this morning and then some other tests all over the place I have zero faith in serum testing as an accurate measure of GH quality.

Remember we have been doing IGF testing on the boards for years and ya know what! results are always kind of close from the same brands and batches. Why? cause it works!


Rant off

 

[Spongy]

excellent post brother, I will follow suit with the Eli's

 

[DaHurt]

Good post Zeek and a much needed rant. IGF is superior and this is what we use as a proxy for GH secretion in research and development as well. Wanna know WHY?

The issue with GH serum testing is that GH is VERY ephemeral, and further isn't the 'phenotype' for growth (meaning IGF-1 directly drives growth, not GH). That is, it doesn't stay in the circulation long relative to IGF-1. As you all know, GH is secreted by the pituitary and binds receptors that induce IGF-1 secretion, primarily hepatic receptors, but also somatic.

Once we inject exogenous HGH, after an amount of time, a certain amount of that HGH will have already bound hepatic receptors and induced IGF-1 secretion...meaning THAT GH won't show up in a serum test. SO essentially what you're testing in the serum test is how much GH is present that hasn't yet DONE ANYTHING...while a % has already been transduced as a signal for IGF-1 (and some tagged for removal by antibodies).

Part of my research is developing the most accurate biomarkers for periods of a phenomenon called 'compensatory growth' which is basically growth at an accelerated rate. I can induce this using exogenous GH in test animals BUT my serum GH readings are all over the place, even though the GH I use is absolutely 98%+ pure lab grade and I control the dosages very precisely. But IGF-1 is always very consistent and matches growth rates at 80% accuracy when plotted against one another...which in biology is a phenomenal correlation.

Sorry for the long post, just my .02 from the controlled lab world

 

[DaHurt]

At least that^ is our (my lab's) theory for why IGF-1 is more accurate than GH.

 

[Zeek]

Thank you for that priceless info!

Let me give you major props for explaining it all WITHOUT pulling a nasty ole copy and paste job!

It shows you understand what you are saying! many do not when they just copy and paste some crap

Good post Zeek and a much needed rant. IGF is superior and this is what we use as a proxy for GH secretion in research and development as well. Wanna know WHY?

The issue with GH serum testing is that GH is VERY ephemeral, and further isn't the 'phenotype' for growth (meaning IGF-1 directly drives growth, not GH). That is, it doesn't stay in the circulation long relative to IGF-1. As you all know, GH is secreted by the pituitary and binds receptors that induce IGF-1 secretion, primarily hepatic receptors, but also somatic.

Once we inject exogenous HGH, after an amount of time, a certain amount of that HGH will have already bound hepatic receptors and induced IGF-1 secretion...meaning THAT GH won't show up in a serum test. SO essentially what you're testing in the serum test is how much GH is present that hasn't yet DONE ANYTHING...while a % has already been transduced as a signal for IGF-1 (and some tagged for removal by antibodies).

Part of my research is developing the most accurate biomarkers for periods of a phenomenon called 'compensatory growth' which is basically growth at an accelerated rate. I can induce this using exogenous GH in test animals BUT my serum GH readings are all over the place, even though the GH I use is absolutely 98%+ pure lab grade and I control the dosages very precisely. But IGF-1 is always very consistent and matches growth rates at 80% accuracy when plotted against one another...which in biology is a phenomenal correlation.

Sorry for the long post, just my .02 from the controlled lab world

 

[Zeek]

At least that^ is our (my lab's) theory for why IGF-1 is more accurate than GH.

We have to ask ourselves also why do pretty much all docs and hrt clinics that prescribe HGH use the IGF test over the gh serum?

GH serum is used strictly to diagnose illness and usually in children.

I am kicking myself in the ass for even playing along with the serum game. I knew better and now I raised my BP for nothing!

 

[DaHurt]

Thank you for that priceless info!

Let me give you major props for explaining it all WITHOUT pulling a nasty ole copy and paste job!

It shows you understand what you are saying! many do not when they just copy and paste some crap

No problem, like I said that is just our hypothesis. But the fact remains that medical and R&D folks always test IGF-1 because it is much more reliable.

I've grown liver cells in culture and added GH to them, in a few hrs there was hardly any GH left, but tons of IGF-1 because the GH had already 'done its job' and the signal for that (IGF-1) was what was left.

 

[Spongy]

hurt you so smert bruh!

 

[slipperyslope]

A friend has some Kigtropin that he guarantees is legit. He'll give it to me, and I pay after it is tested to be good. I know in another thread you said there is a lot of bunk Kigtropin around, but I figure worse case I'm out $60 for the IGF-1 test.

I had blood work done 1 month ago, my IGF-1 was 188 ng/ml. The reference interval is 101-267.

So if I inject 4iu of the Kigtropin, and get my blood tested an hour or so later, my IGF-1 should be in the 588 range if it is legit?

 

[Zeek]

Hi slippery! Nice avatar!

You do not add your baseline to the total because truth be known once you start injecting HGH your body starts making much less of it's own and even possibly none of it's own.

That whole take gh in the am and not at night to keep your body making it's own is bro science.

Yes sir, inject 4iu eat something. pref with carbs and then go test 1-3 hrs later. You are looking for 400+ on the test.

I did post some recent kig results, tell me the batch and manufacture date and I will give you results on those that have been done thus far.


And for 60 bucks and nothing else invested, I would do the same as you are doing.

A friend has some Kigtropin that he guarantees is legit. He'll give it to me, and I pay after it is tested to be good. I know in another thread you said there is a lot of bunk Kigtropin around, but I figure worse case I'm out $60 for the IGF-1 test.

I had blood work done 1 month ago, my IGF-1 was 188 ng/ml. The reference interval is 101-267.

So if I inject 4iu of the Kigtropin, and get my blood tested an hour or so later, my IGF-1 should be in the 588 range if it is legit?

 

[slipperyslope]

Thanks for clearing that up Zeek. I'm going to pick the kit up next week. I'll give you the batch and manufacture date when I have it in hand.

 

[Zeek]

Very good!

 

[heavyiron]

Good info guys. The moment I saw my rhGH results on script Tev-Tropin I messaged rAJJIN and told him that GH serum testing is flawed. We knew the method was crude but not this crude.

I think it would be cool to see serum GH tests along side IGF-1 in the future.

The learning continues...

 

[b_saan]

Good info guys. The moment I saw my rhGH results on script Tev-Tropin I messaged rAJJIN and told him that GH serum testing is flawed. We knew the method was crude but not this crude.

I think it would be cool to see serum GH tests along side IGF-1 in the future.

The learning continues...

It seems it probably is flawed for strength of dosage purposes but if one gets a .2 or similar reading 2 hours after injection of supposedly 10iu I'd think we could probably be certain that there's no GH in that dose. Conversely if you get a 12/15/etc reading even though it varies and maybe not be reliable for actual dosage strength, I think we can assume that there is a legitimate amount of GH.

My IGF/serum test on Kigs, 2hours after 10iu injection, was .3 serum and 265 IGF. I'll probably just end up getting both again in the future to be certain I've got all bases covered.

 

[Mt-momma]

Good post Zeek and a much needed rant. IGF is superior and this is what we use as a proxy for GH secretion in research and development as well. Wanna know WHY?

The issue with GH serum testing is that GH is VERY ephemeral, and further isn't the 'phenotype' for growth (meaning IGF-1 directly drives growth, not GH). That is, it doesn't stay in the circulation long relative to IGF-1. As you all know, GH is secreted by the pituitary and binds receptors that induce IGF-1 secretion, primarily hepatic receptors, but also somatic.

Once we inject exogenous HGH, after an amount of time, a certain amount of that HGH will have already bound hepatic receptors and induced IGF-1 secretion...meaning THAT GH won't show up in a serum test. SO essentially what you're testing in the serum test is how much GH is present that hasn't yet DONE ANYTHING...while a % has already been transduced as a signal for IGF-1 (and some tagged for removal by antibodies).

Part of my research is developing the most accurate biomarkers for periods of a phenomenon called 'compensatory growth' which is basically growth at an accelerated rate. I can induce this using exogenous GH in test animals BUT my serum GH readings are all over the place, even though the GH I use is absolutely 98%+ pure lab grade and I control the dosages very precisely. But IGF-1 is always very consistent and matches growth rates at 80% accuracy when plotted against one another...which in biology is a phenomenal correlation.

Sorry for the long post, just my .02 from the controlled lab world

Skool makes you sooper smart!

But, in all seriousness Hurt, thank you for that explanation .

 

[DaHurt]

It seems it probably is flawed for strength of dosage purposes but if one gets a .2 or similar reading 2 hours after injection of supposedly 10iu I'd think we could probably be certain that there's no GH in that dose. Conversely if you get a 12/15/etc reading even though it varies and maybe not be reliable for actual dosage strength, I think we can assume that there is a legitimate amount of GH.

My IGF/serum test on Kigs, 2hours after 10iu injection, was .3 serum and 265 IGF. I'll probably just end up getting both again in the future to be certain I've got all bases covered.

Absolutely. If you test less than 1 ng/ml suffice to say that shit is fake! haha

Skool makes you sooper smart!

But, in all seriousness Hurt, thank you for that explanation .

Haha no problem I try to learn good.

 

[UserAt204]

But the difference here is we are testing gh immediately to see if it's real, hence the gh serum. Speaking to a doc about it, he said they don't use serum because they aren't concerned that they are giving the patient a real product, they are only concerned with keeping that patient at a specific igf levels no matter what the dose needs to be.

With igf you need time to allow levels to build up some, with serum it's a quick test to tell you if you have gh without having to do the whole kit.

I still think serum is the quick method to make sure what you have is real, then as you are using it, you can test igf levels, but it's not as simple as 1 iu = 100 pts igf, for ZEEK that may be the case, but even on pharma grade my buddy was not getting any where near those results with igf and was scoring low on serum as well and he was using 10 iu a day, then on days tested he would use 10 iu am, then another 10 iu 2-3 hours later then test and again all low scores.

 

[DaHurt]

3 hours post-inject is hardly immediate. GH can bind hepatic receptors and be out of serum pretty darn quick relatively speaking. What your buddy sees is what he sees, but I know from my own (once again lab) experiments GH serum dynamics are all over the place, depending on many factors.

 

[heavyiron]

It seems it probably is flawed for strength of dosage purposes but if one gets a .2 or similar reading 2 hours after injection of supposedly 10iu I'd think we could probably be certain that there's no GH in that dose. Conversely if you get a 12/15/etc reading even though it varies and maybe not be reliable for actual dosage strength, I think we can assume that there is a legitimate amount of GH.

My IGF/serum test on Kigs, 2hours after 10iu injection, was .3 serum and 265 IGF. I'll probably just end up getting both again in the future to be certain I've got all bases covered.

Agreed brother.

 

[bah1a]

So what I'm understanding here is that if I start injecting gh my body will stop prodicng its own. Do I really want to do that then? If yes, should I be looking at igf too? Boy, that's a whole different path to follow........ and learn about. Worth it?

Thoughts?