Is a post cycle therapy (pct) even required if you run Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) during the cycle?

[5x10]

Is a pct even required if you run hcg during the cycle?

If you think about it, serms starts the process of your body's hpta system in hopes that you produce test again as quickly as possible
The end result of this is your body producing lh, which ultimately produces test

I have read several studies showing the body starts the hpta cycle anywhere from 1-3 weeks after levels bottom out and if your leydig cells are not atrophied(due to hcg), why would you need a serm when your body will be up in running from 1-3 weeks?(which most serms are recommended to be run for 4 weeks)
Seems like for recovery, hcg > any and all serms
I wanted to source the studies, but cannot seem to find them

Edit: here's a study showing 3 weeks for lh levels to quickly rise

1. Effect of long-term testosterone oenanthate administration on male reproductive function: Clinical evaluation, serum FSH, LH, Testosterone and seminal fluid analysis in normal men. J. Mauss, G. Borsch et al. Acta Endocrinol 78 (1975) 373-84

At the start of the study, LH levels became suppressed in direct relation to the rise in testosterone, which is to be expected. Things looked very different, however, once the steroids had been withdrawn (see Figure I). LH levels went on the rise quickly (by the 3rd week),

And a great post
http://www.steroidology.com/forum/a...-post-cycle-t-recovery-william-llewellyn.html

 

[Austinite]

The study is 38 years old and Llewellyn's article is well over a decade old. Since then, there has been plenty of studies and evidence that warrant post cycle therapy. In some cases, hCG alone most certainly could suffice, but success is at a greater risk than performing post cycle therapy (pct). Heck some people recover without any plans.

At ENDO2013, it was established by the majority that restarting HPTA is effective with SERMS. Of course they were discussing new, younger patients with Low T and great potential at recovery. Doctors are generally aware that many younger clients have cycled anabolic steroids, even if it's not discussed.

Furthermore; Dr. Scally and Dr. Christler, who seem to always try to fight each others' methods... both agree on one thing: SERMS are effective and a current medicine. hCG is beneficial in several ways, however it is still limited and cannot offer what SERMS can post cycle. I think they have separate jobs and until we develop as people and scientists to prove otherwise, there is no reason to vary.

 

[5x10]

The study is 38 years old and Llewellyn's article is well over a decade old. Since then, there has been plenty of studies and evidence that warrant post cycle therapy. In some cases, hCG alone most certainly could suffice, but success is at a greater risk than performing post cycle therapy (pct). Heck some people recover without any plans.

At ENDO2013, it was established by the majority that restarting HPTA is effective with SERMS. Of course they were discussing new, younger patients with Low T and great potential at recovery. Doctors are generally aware that many younger clients have cycled anabolic steroids, even if it's not discussed.

Furthermore; Dr. Scally and Dr. Christler, who seem to always try to fight each others' methods... both agree on one thing: SERMS are effective and a current medicine. hCG is beneficial in several ways, however it is still limited and cannot offer what SERMS can post cycle. I think they have separate jobs and until we develop as people and scientists to prove otherwise, there is no reason to vary.

so, in the past 38 yrs, peoples hpta's have behaved differently?

i mean, lets look at the logic assuming HPTAs are the same
studies show LH values rising after 3 weeks of the end of the cycle, without SERMS
SERMS are used to bring back LH levels(among other things as well, but the end result your looking for is LH which produced the test)
SERMS are recommended for 4 weeks after cycle

Why would I run a serm for 4 weeks, when my body will be producing the same LH in 3 weeks?


also, you mind posting up some studies. Im having trouble finding an equivalent to the one that was done in 75
And i dont think studies showing serm use alone(without hcg) would have any benefit to this debate as i would agree that they are needed if hcg is not used(the logic being, SERMS for your bodys HPTA to produce LH, which would help stimulate the leydig cells, which would help speed up the process of recovery)

 

[Austinite]

No, that would be a silly assumption, however, in the past 38 years we've been able to conduct more reliable studies.

SERMS are not suppressive. hCG is suppressive. Big difference between Pituitary LH with hCG signaled/mimicked LH.

hCG is weak in the FSH department, for that you'd need hMG, or better yet... Clomiphene and Tamoxifen. These two SERMS also work in synergy to rid you from excess estrogen in the Hypothalamus, not something you can do on your own, or with hCG on cycle.

In turn, if we assumed your info is correct, then hCG can and should be the sole compound used by doctors for restarting HPTA. Not the case, actually.. not even remotely close. Most recent treatments include a short run of hCG followed by several months of Clomiphene.

You can't look at LH and stop researching.