Keto Diet + Test E and Zero Pumps/Protein Q

[Roush]

Not trying to argue, but telling me to intake .7lb of protein to cut is just down right stupid IMO and I want Half or Mrrip or 3J to confirm this....

FYI -- it was the various authors , experts, doctors, and pHD's that have studied and written about the ketogenic diet that were giving this advice. did you not read the quote of them that recommended this amount ?


your question was wither or not too much protein could kick you our of ketosis or not . this is a totally different fucking topic then being on a standard hypo-caloric diet and cutting.

I stated the experts advice on ketogenic diets and they recommended not to consume more then 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight (and not less then 0.6), otherwise this could kick you out of ketosis. If experts , medical doctors, and PHD's are giving this advice in written form (which i quoted above) and you would rather someone on an internet forum tell you otherwise. then you don't really want any answers other then someone to confirm what you think you believe in your own mind.

if you don't believe that ,, i really don't give a shit.

if you want to run a standard body builder diet and cut with high protein and moderate to low carbs and fats in a calorie deficit and loose body fat while training to spare muscle tissue . go for it . But thats a whole DIFFERENT THING then a ketogenic diet and ketosis .

you don't seem to understand that there is a difference between a ketogenic diet , and a standard cutting diet. I answered the questions in the context of "Ketogenic" diet and staying in ketosis.


I mean your just a 180 pound dude trying to cut while consuming 4000 Fing calories !! so again , i figured "ketosis" was your main object in your questions ,, not necessarily a standard body builder cutting diet (because a again, who in their right mind that weighs only 180 pounds would cut on 4000+ calories a day)

 

[tx045]

I was going to say.......I think we're talking apples to oranges here

 

[omgmike1]

Nearly 200 lbs with a very high metabolism. Do u not think for a second if I could bulk on 4000 calories and see my weight go up, then everything would be sooo much better for me? Trust me, my downfall is eating the amount I need to grow. I don't expect u to believe it. My first week on this diet I lost 2.6lbs, I'm assuming this is mostly water weight from going from 400g carbs to below 30g. So this coming Monday the real change in weight should show and I'll repost it on this thread.

I'll buy that test u suggested and take it out of curiosity using the diet I have setup.

Honestly btw, if anything 4000 cals would me my maintience maybe on work out days and Like I said 10 times, I'm PROB intaking less cause I'm draining the grease, so realistically 3800-3500.

If your right on the protein ratio, You and Your experts, then forget the keto diet and I'm not running it. I will stick to High Protein, High-moderate fat and, Low carb.

Can u tell me of any other guy on this forum, than you, that is willing to cut eating 140g of protein? I find it hard to believe and many on here prob have done keto WITHOUT using that BS ratio of yours.

 

[Roush]

Can u tell me of any other guy on this forum, than you, that is willing to cut eating 140g of protein? I find it hard to believe and many on here prob have done keto WITHOUT using that BS ratio of yours.

lol its not MY ratio dude. its the ratio given by guys with PHD's and medical degrees . sorry to disappoint you , I stole it from them.

and its not a ratio of Protein to "cut" with . its the ratio that answered your original question about staying in ketosis . your block head obviously does not know theres a difference.

not sure why its so hard to understand that to stay in KETOSIS 24/7 its recommend you only eat .6-1 gram of protein per pound of body weight . pretty simple shit man! if you want to eat more protein , then eat more and don't do a Keto diet . don't think your cut out for Keto,, your brain cells needs as many carbs as it can get man.

not sure why the fuck your arguing with someone giving you the simple advice about the amount of protein intake needed for ketosis . any 7 year old with reading abilities could of looked that up himself. pretty much every book on the ketogenic diet in print has similar recommendations (and Keto has been around for like 30 years , nothing new).



heck you could cut on 500 grams of protein if you wanted . thats only 2000 calories . BUT THAT WAS NOT YOUR QUESTION . you asked about STAYING IN KETOSIS. and i simply gave you what the keto diet experts recommend as far as protein intake for staying in ketosis.

 

[Roush]

and a side note apart from the whole KETOSIS and Protein question..

if you take the time to look into it and modern research (instead of bro science) , you'll find plenty of information showing that not near as much protein is needed to "Maintain" muscle mass as was once believed.

of course the supplement companies that sell you protein supplements wouldn't want you to know this

 

[Megatron28]

Why are you even doing Keto? It doesn't seem to match up with the way you are training. Why not just eat a balanced diet and reduce carbs a bit to get to your targeted caloric deficit? So for example, 1g of P per pound of bodyweight. .4g of F. And the remainder in carbs. Or go 1.25g P if you desire.

OMG: did you ever answer this question?

 

[Roush]

OMG: did you ever answer this question?

Personally I think OP would be wise to follow Mega's advice .


Mike I don't think you understand that a traditional ketogenic diet is a moderate to low protein diet (75% fats, 20% protein). That's why most bodybuilders don't generally go for full Ketosis diets.

Thus your confusing traditional cutting diets with higher protein as part of keto dieting . They are not the same

 

[omgmike1]

and a side note apart from the whole KETOSIS and Protein question..

if you take the time to look into it and modern research (instead of bro science) , you'll find plenty of information showing that not near as much protein is needed to "Maintain" muscle mass as was once believed.

of course the supplement companies that sell you protein supplements wouldn't want you to know this

OK, ill do my way till calories get near 3000 or so, then ill switch it up to 150g prot and rest fats. See how it goes then.

 

[soldier74]

I'm surprised Matt hasnt crashed your thread yet OMG. Seeing as he totally obliterated your last thread.

 

[Milton]

I'm surprised Matt hasnt crashed your thread yet OMG. Seeing as he totally obliterated your last thread.

havent seen him around the campfire lately hope holmes is doing well.

 

[Milton]

hows that keto diet going?

 

[3J]

there is alot of nonsense going on here..

150g protein on keto??

what are you, a woman? lol

keto is high protein, high fat.. simple as that..

the lower the carbs, the higher your protein and fat intake should be.. minimum 250g protein in your case..

glycogenesis will not occur at 250g with an active lifestyle..

bring you cals down to 3k.. run keto.. and dont run it for long.. maybe 8-12 weeks max..

any longer than that, go ckd

 

[Roush]

there is alot of nonsense going on here..

keto is high protein, high fat.. simple as that..

The ketogenic diet is a high-fat, adequate-protein, low-carbohydrate diet

Wikipedia

Standard ketogenic diet (SKD): This is a very low-carb, moderate-protein and high-fat diet. It typically contains 75% fat, 20% protein and only 5% carbs

Authority nutrition

if the OP is doing a standard Keto diet . and taking in 250g of protein (on 20% total calories coming from protein diet), then he's consuming around 5000 calories a day. thats far from a cutting diet.


perhaps "modified" ATKINS style 'Keto' diets are high protein . but traditional and standard Keto diets for the last several decades in both medicine and nutrition have been HIGH Fat , moderate protein . not high protein (again, unless your talking Atkins diet). or some sort of modified high protein Keto diet (which should be labeled as something else , and not standard Keto diet)

 

[Roush]

keto is high protein, high fat.. simple as that..

Thats the exact definition of the ATKINS Diet

Atkins Deit - a diet high in protein and fat and low in carbohydrates, prescribed for weight loss.

google word definitions

 

[3J]

what the hell.. what does eating 250g protein have to do with 5000 calories

roush.. what are you saying bro?? lol

 

[Roush]

what the hell.. what does eating 250g protein have to do with 5000 calories

roush.. what are you saying bro?? lol

lol . I'm saying that if the OP was following a traditional / standard Ketogenic diet (as defined by references posted above) . then only 20% of his total calories would be coming from protein . So if he is consuming 250g worth of protein , which is 1000 calories of protein, then that '1000' is 20% of a 5000 calorie total.**

its obvious he is not following a standard Keto diet then , more like a modified Keto or Atkins diet . cause again , traditional Keto is high fat , moderate protein (20% of total calories)


** do the math . 250 g of protein , 4 calories per gram of protein = 1000 calories of protein. a Keto diet consists of 20% of your total calories coming from protein (by definition) , so if he is consuming 1000 calories of protein then he must be consuming 5000 total calories , cause 1000 is 20% of 5000

 

[3J]

who is to say what the standard approach of keto is though?

lol . I'm saying that if the OP was following a traditional / standard Ketogenic diet (as defined by references posted above) . then only 20% of his total calories would be coming from protein . So if he is consuming 250g worth of protein , which is 1000 calories of protein, then that '1000' is 20% of a 5000 calorie total.**

its obvious he is not following a standard Keto diet then , more like a modified Keto or Atkins diet . cause again , traditional Keto is high fat , moderate protein (20% of total calories)


** do the math . 250 g of protein , 4 calories per gram of protein = 1000 calories of protein. a Keto diet consists of 20% of your total calories coming from protein (by definition) , so if he is consuming 1000 calories of protein then he must be consuming 5000 total calories , cause 1000 is 20% of 5000

 

[Roush]

who is to say what the standard approach of keto is though?

well it helps when 30+ years worth of ketogenic diet books, medical pubs, authors, PHD's , doctors, and such all have the same basic definition of "ketogenic" diet.
if some people confuse or mix-match Atkins diet with Keto diet (cause they happen to both be low carb) thats fine. but that makes communication harder.

if Bob has his own version of something, which is not defined as the standard definition . then Bob won't be able to communicate very well with those who adhere to the standard definition.

and , like this thread, the conversation won't be very productive cause people are using their own definitions of terms , rather then the standard definition.

 

[omgmike1]

Roush.

Come on now man...

Clearly if anything 3J knows good is diet, maybe there is a reason people often do his programs to get into some good shape and pay for it too?

He is saying the same thing as Half did. High protein and High fat (enough fat tbh) and -30g carbs and ur good to go.

Don't throw my cals and macros around too. I ate 5000 or more to GAIN size. In which case I HARDLY gained size.
My first week doing this diet I lost 2.4lbs. Mostly from dropping water.
Second week done NOW, I lost over 3lbs. Not water, but fat and hopefully not too much muscle, but either way I decrease my sets drastically, So it should level out.

Once again Roush, I have a diff intake in calories VS the average guy on here, so don't troll it. I have no reason to boast on this btw, it simply is what it is.

3J is very correct on the protein intake. The only thing I doubted the most was that in your case. 140g protein is a total straight JOKE to bulk or especially cut with.

I really think the way u keep talking about the keto diet is more for the average guy that just aims to drop ANYTHING off his body to just decrease size. Those programs and scientists prob studied it in terms of general people, not so much for BB'ers.

 

[3J]

awesome, youre listening to a bunch of guys who have no experience in practical application..

were those articles written and studies done specifically for those with the aesthetic in mind? think about it..

think about the daily recommendations the government gives for the average person.. remember the "food pyramid" if that doesn't make you raise a flag, what will?

i mean, dont take my word for it.. its not like i have a decade of experience and do this for a living

well it helps when 30+ years worth of ketogenic diet books, medical pubs, authors, PHD's , doctors, and such all have the same basic definition of "ketogenic" diet.
if some people confuse or mix-match Atkins diet with Keto diet (cause they happen to both be low carb) thats fine. but that makes communication harder.

if Bob has his own version of something, which is not defined as the standard definition . then Bob won't be able to communicate very well with those who adhere to the standard definition.

and , like this thread, the conversation won't be very productive cause people are using their own definitions of terms , rather then the standard definition.