Long term damage

Thoms: That is not true, when you grow everything in youre body will grow with the rest.
I'm afraid you don't understand...the growing of your heart doesn't mean it will be stronger, and able to pump blood for a bigger body. It will become less functional, and eventually be unable to pump blood for a normal body, let alone an enhanced one.
 
Thoms said:
I'm afraid you don't understand...the growing of your heart doesn't mean it will be stronger, and able to pump blood for a bigger body. It will become less functional, and eventually be unable to pump blood for a normal body, let alone an enhanced one.

which brings us back to the enlarged heart
 
That study was posted about a week ago. The study itself was completed a month ago so it's fresh information. i'd like to see if i can get a hold of that study. One thing to know and remember about that test is ...

Because homocysteine levels are related to kidney problems, smoking, high blood pressure and other factors that increase the risk of heart disease, "homocysteine could be a marker, but not a cause, of vascular disease.
 
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That study was posted about a week ago. The study itself was completed a month ago so it's fresh information. i'd like to see if i can get a hold of that study.
I already read it a while back. I'd post a link but their site is down. I'll get back on this.
 
Jimmykick said:
That study was posted about a week ago. The study itself was completed a month ago so it's fresh information. i'd like to see if i can get a hold of that study. One thing to know and remember about that test is ...

Because homocysteine levels are related to kidney problems, smoking, high blood pressure and other factors that increase the risk of heart disease, "homocysteine could be a marker, but not a cause, of vascular disease.
Homocysteine levels can be controlled quite easily by nutritional supplementation....I'm wondering if they monitored what else the subjects had been taking before the study, I'd bet the farm they didn't.
 
Homocysteine levels can be controlled quite easily by nutritional supplementation...
Well that's tue. Creatine for one lowers it, if memory serves correctly. I'll make a list.
 
http://heart.healthcentersonline.com/newsstories/loweringhomocysteinedoesntprotectheart.cfm

Lowering homocysteine doesn't protect heart

Mar 14 (Reuters) - Levels of the amino acid homocysteine may be high in people destined for a heart attack or stroke, but lowering them with B vitamins and folic acid does not reduce the risk, two studies show.
"Clearly, folic acid, vitamin B12, and vitamin B6 are not the therapeutic solution expected," said Joseph Loscalzo of Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston, in an editorial in The New England Journal of Medicine, where the results will appear.

They were reported on Sunday at the annual meeting of the American College of Cardiology in Atlanta.

In the first study, Eva Lonn of McMaster University in Ontario and her colleagues gave 5,522 volunteers from 13 countries either a placebo or supplements of vitamin B6, B12 and folic acid.

In the group that received the supplements, homocysteine levels declined. But the likelihood of stroke, heart attack, or death from any heart-related cause did not.

The rate of heart problems or stroke was 18.8 percent for volunteers getting the supplements and 19.8 percent for the placebo recipients.

Even when they thought they might be seeing some benefit from folic acid or B vitamins, that was offset by an increased risk of another health problem, the Lonn team found.

The risk of stroke seem to fall by 25 percent for supplement recipients, but 24 percent more ended up being hospitalized for unstable angina, which can quickly lead to a heart attack. Both findings, the researchers cautioned, may have been due to chance.

While the Lonn study looked at people over 54 with diabetes or who were at risk of heart disease, the second smaller trial examined 3,749 Norwegians who started taking supplements or a placebo within seven days after surviving a heart attack.

That team, led by Kaare Bonaa of the University of Tromso, also found no clear benefit after about three years of treatment.

Volunteers who took folic acid and the two B vitamins actually seemed to face a higher risk of a stroke, heart attack or death from any heart-related cause.

However, that 22-percent increase in the risk was barely statistically significant, so it could have been due to chance. Patients who lowered their homocysteine levels by only taking vitamin B6, or a combination of B12 and folic acid, saw their risk increase by 8 to 14 percent.

"Such therapy may even be harmful" to people who have just survived a heart attack or had a stent implanted to prevent another heart attack "and should therefore not be recommended," said the Bonaa team.

Population studies have, in the past, linked homocysteine to an increased risk of heart disease.

Because homocysteine levels are related to kidney problems, smoking, high blood pressure and other factors that increase the risk of heart disease, "homocysteine could be a marker, but not a cause, of vascular disease," the Lonn team said.


Publish Date: March 14, 2006
 
I know it seems like i am being negative but please understand I am only presenting these studies for conversation. Clearly we have to have more research done. i mean why will they look at stem cell and cloning but possibly finding the fountain of youth re: anabolics are not studies they are interested in doing? On the surface it seems to have gotten the bad rap but are we about to find out that maybe the naysayers were right? 3 people died during the testing. Hard to come back from a heart attack Bros. Shit we haven't even talked about kidneys and liver yet
 
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A key in preventing CVD is reducing overall systemic inflammation. Things like homocysteine and CRP are related to systemic inflammation. Simply taking omega-3 fish oils can significantly decrease this inflammation. We need to come up with a total supplementation approach. Taruine and cranberry extract to increase blood vessel wall elasticity, fish oils to reduce the inflammation, etc.
 
DocJ said:
A key in preventing CVD is reducing overall systemic inflammation. Things like homocysteine and CRP are related to systemic inflammation. Simply taking omega-3 fish oils can significantly decrease this inflammation. We need to come up with a total supplementation approach. Taruine and cranberry extract to increase blood vessel wall elasticity, fish oils to reduce the inflammation, etc.

did not know about taurine and cranberry extract. how much?
how much omega 3?
 
DocJ's Heart Healthy Supplementation*
Omega-3's: 4-10g/day
Taurine: 3-6g/day
Cranberry Extract: 3g/day
Curcumin: 2-3g/day (preferably take w/bioperine to increase bioavailability)
Polycosinol: 20mg/day
Phosphatidylcholine: 150mg E3D (via IM injection)**

*Feel free to add to this list as there are several others that have similar actions in the body, this is just what I take to cover my bases

**I realize this is a wild one, go to the chem section for more info...
http://www.steroidology.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91783
 
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Of course there are side effects associated with gear that you need to be aware of and manage. However, I have no idea how anyone can conclude that using gear "must" shorten our lives and that this is obviously self evident from common sense and it is a "fact" even though there are no studies or emperical data to support this conclusion. That is nonsense. The lack of evidence supporting a conclusion that using steroids will kill you or shorten your life actually supports the conclusion that it will not do so.

I'm talking in general terms of course. I'm not implying that we should all start using anadrol daily for years and not worry about it.
 
thanks Trev
what about all the heart issues that we now KNOW somehow affect possible mortality?
 
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Physician said this....most medically documented problems associated with steroid use can be attributed to one or more of three things...using too high of doses, staying on cycle to long, or cycling too frequently and not allowing the body's natural chemistry to restore between cycles.


this is what catches everyone - i feel everything in life done moderately [smart] - reg doc visits etc,etc, you can live a longer healthier life but facts are most of us go against it -

thats what catches us - the more is better attitude is what hurts us --
 
house1 said:
this is what catches everyone - i feel everything in life done moderately [smart] - reg doc visits etc,etc, you can live a longer healthier life but facts are most of us go against it -

thats what catches us - the more is better attitude is what hurts us --

You beat me to it. Although his quote is overly simplified, it speaks the truth. I would add to the doctor's comments the following: age and daily health. On the former: sorry kids, but the younger one begins juicing, the more health problems will occur over the long haul (assuming one continues to juice throughout life). On the latter: even without gear, a significant factor in all of this (as discussed above regarding fish oils, sleep, etc) is one's daily health: eat right, sleep right; these have a profound affect on protecting the body, even from low dose AAS.
 
I think you are speculating but we all are to some degree.
People assume that it shortens your life because it seems that many have had complications down the road that weren't tell tale or definite signs of steroid abuse. We wonder if somehow it was linked but without that scientific proof we remain unbelieving and hopeful that it "just aint true" but now in this recent study where three people died from cardiac arrest it may serve to confirm our fears. That maybe we are damaging our hearts and other organs.

Let's not forget that It IS a synthetic chemical and it IS a foreign substance to the body (in it's synthetic form of course).

Personally, i hope that my gut is wrong. I hope that more studies come out to explore the safe responsible usage of steroids. Keep making noise. They are hearing us.
 
Jimmykick said:
I think you are speculating but we all are to some degree.
People assume that it shortens your life because it seems that many have had complications down the road that weren't tell tale or definite signs of steroid abuse. We wonder if somehow it was linked but without that scientific proof we remain unbelieving and hopeful that it "just aint true" but now in this recent study where three people died from cardiac arrest it may serve to confirm our fears. That maybe we are damaging our hearts and other organs.

Let's not forget that It IS a synthetic chemical and it IS a foreign substance to the body (in it's synthetic form of course).

Personally, i hope that my gut is wrong. I hope that more studies come out to explore the safe responsible usage of steroids. Keep making noise. They are hearing us.



i would also like to add that the days of test only cycles are gone -- you have to look at the fine print to find actual test in anyones cycles -

the types of drugs and the amounts used are whats catching up to this generation - the older bodybuilders did not run into the problems that are seen today i feel because things were kept basic - no such thing anymore - since i started competeing i am guilty of this aswell -

my days of competeing will be slowing aswell as my use - back to basics -

what happened to test only cycles - less sides and less complications =-

i just had a tumor pulled out from the top of my chest 4 weeks ago --turned out to be noncancerous but a tumor nontheless - when we start piling on the so called exotics - pounding growth ,igf13 etc etc - your risks skyrocket -
 
Um, James, did you notice this part of the article?:

"three of the steroid-using bodybuilders died during the study period and all of them had significantly higher levels of homocysteine than the average for the steroid-using group."

These guys, in other words, were already at "double" the higher risk to begin with...I guess they thought that one would slip by a bunch of meatheads, since they kinda' slipped it in the tail of their alarmist report, Hmmm? :spin:
 
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