Long term damage

[Jimmykick]

I respect BOTH of your opinions as they are both well written and communicated. Many of us have a hard time accepting the idea that although steroids tend to enhance muscle performance, that it actually doesn't enhance performance of the most important muscle of all, the heart. It actually adds stress to it through associated side effects such as high BP, poor lipid profile, etc. Of course the heart is an organ but you get my jist. We love the feeling of strength and confidence that steroids give us. So much so that we are willing to risk sexual side effects amongst countless other sides. I don't think many of us recreational users and obviously newbs understand the implications it could have on our hearts.

Back to my original post. Long term damage. What are the real risks?
Obviously we need studies to further understand. ANY studies or research that you have done would be appreciated if it were posted up for us.

 

[Thoms]

Obviously we need studies to further understand. ANY studies or research that you have done would be appreciated if it were posted up for us.

Sadly, there are no long-term studies in this regard. I feel they should be done. All we can do for now is look to historical evidence. We can see how BB came to an end and at what age, and what we can do to avoid this. We have already learned a lot this way. Especially the pro's that abuse gear give us an idea of what can go wrong. We are aware of problems with acne, infections, heart, liver, kidneys, BP, lipid profile, cholesterol, damaged endogeneous test production, sex disfunction, damaged HPTA, shrunken testicals, gyno, baldness, compartment syndrome, anxiety, prostate problems, high red blood count, etc...
Frankly we have learned a lot about everything that can go wrong. I don't think there will be much more new info as to side effects, but a lot more info in the future as how to fight them. I have studied steroids for over 10 years, the last 5 almost on a daily basis. I haven't encountered a serious side effect yet. I'm hoping for a clean and long ride, but if I do get a side on the way, I know what to do.

 

[ManOfMuscle]

In the last 2000 years of mankind, people who were heavier, be it from fat or muscle, have died sooner than their thinner counterparts.

I've always believed this to be common sense, and since I'm a big guy anyway I say fuck it I might as well have fun with it

When you get right down to it size is hard on the body, the more I research and the bigger I get it becomes more apparent to me. IMHO a 5'10 300 bodybuilder is running basically the same risks as a 5'10 300lb fatass.

 

[Jimmykick]

except the fatass eats fried chicken, potatoe chips, devil dogs and has clogged arteries and poor cardiovascular system

The BB eats oatmeal, protein, complex carbs works out and has good cardiovascular function.

 

[Thoms]

However, I have not been convinced that my life will be shorter because I have used steroids along with training and diet to increase my lean body weight from about 160 lbs. to about 185 lbs. I would be surprised but not offended if you could produce some evidence that would support that conclusion.

OK,

here's a study done considering both overweight and obesity in regards to mortality on 500000+ people:

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/NEJMoa055643

...Conclusions Excess body weight during midlife, including overweight, is associated with an increased risk of death....

 

[Thoms]

Homocysteine levels can be controlled quite easily by nutritional supplementation...

Well that's tue. creatine for one lowers it, if memory serves correctly. I'll make a list.

Makes it go UP:
*viagra
*AAS
*Nicotine
*B3
*alcohol
*Metmorfin
*L-dopa
*protein

Makes it go DOWN:
*nolva
*B-12/11/6
*creatine
*betaine/lecthine/choline





1. Drugs causing homocysteine levels to increase. Homocysteine.net, 26-3-2003.
2. McCarty MF. Co-administration of equimolar doses of betaine may alleviate the hepatotoxic risk associated with niacin therapy. Med Hypotheses 2000 Sep;55(3):189-94.
3. Van Oort FV, Melse-Boonstra A, Brouwer IA, Clarke R, West CE, Katan MB, Verhoef P. Folic acid and reduction of plasma homocysteine concentrations in older adults: a dose response study. Am J Clin Nutr 2003 May;77(5):1318-23.
4. Joseph Mercola. Vitamin Supplements Reduce Plasma Homocysteine Levels and Your Risk of Heart Attacks. Mercola.com, 1998. Gebaseerd op Arterioscler Thromb Vasc Biol March 1998;18:356-361.
5. Stead LM, Au KP, Jacobs RL, Brosnan ME, Brosnan JT. Methylation demand and homocysteine metabolism: effects of dietary provision of creatine and guanidinoacetate. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 2001 Nov;281(5):E1095-100.
6. Joseph Mercola. Another Reason Why Eggs Actually Lower the Risk of Heart Disease. Mercola.com, 10-2000. Gebaseerd op Archives of Internal Medicine, September 11, 2000; 160.
7. Verhoef P, van Vliet T, Olthof MR, Katan MB. A high-protein diet increases postprandial but not fasting plasma total homocysteine concentrations: a dietary controlled, crossover trial in healthy volunteers. Am J Clin Nutr. 2005 Sep;82(3):553-8.

 

[Warmachine]

except the fatass eats fried chicken, potatoe chips, devil dogs and has clogged arteries and poor cardiovascular system

The BB eats oatmeal, protein, complex carbs works out and has good cardiovascular function.

if you think any bodybuilder got to 300lbs at 5'10 by eating oatmeal youre dead wrong...

 

[ManOfMuscle]

if you think any bodybuilder got to 300lbs at 5'10 by eating oatmeal youre dead wrong...

This is true yet very few people say it.

 

[Jimmykick]

if you think any bodybuilder got to 300lbs at 5'10 by eating oatmeal youre dead wrong...

Warmachine - who said anything about that? We are talking about stress on the heart. The point was that the fatass doesn't eat much of ANY of the healthy things we do nor does the fat ass exercise. Try not to take things so literal. the comment was a 5'10 300 bodybuilder is running basically the same risks as a 5'10 300lb fatass. I don't agree with that 100%.

Maybe similar risks in terms of work load on the heart (using thoms logic) but one of them I guarantee operates more efficiently and one has more blockage then the other. See if you can guess which one I am talking about.

Basically saying that oatmeal is better for the heart than french fries.

 

[Jimmykick]

According to the American Cancer Society:

1. Insoluble fiber's cancer-fighting properties are due to the fact that it attacks certain bile acids, reducing their toxicity.
2. Soluble fiber may reduce LDL cholesterol without lowering HDL cholesterol. LDL is bad; HDL is good.
3. Soluble fiber slows down the digestion of starch. This may be beneficial to diabetics because, when you slow down the digestion of starch, you avoid the sharp rises in your blood sugar level that usually occur following a meal.
4. It has been found that those who eat more oats are less likely to develop heart disease, a disease that is currently widespread in the United States.
5. The phytochemicals in oat may also have cancer-fighting properties.
6. Oats are a good source of many nutrients including vitamin E, zinc, selenium, copper, iron, manganese and magnesium. Oats are also a good source of protein.

The difference between insoluble and soluble fiber, besides the foods that they come from, is what they do in your body. Insoluble fiber's main role is that it makes stools heavier and speeds their passage through the gut, relieving constipation. Soluble fiber breaks down as it passes through the digestive tract, forming a gel that traps some substances related to high cholesterol, thus reducing the absorption of cholesterol into the bloodstream.

 

[ManOfMuscle]

Bottom line: oats are good. Thread closed

 

[DocJ]

3 servings oatmeal/day for me.

 

[Jimmykick]

thanks Lift - Just wanted to keep the focus on the heart. Guess I am a bit passionate about this subject. LOL

 

[Ponderosa]

We all agree that steroids cause long term hidden damage to our bodies but how much is still unknown. This recent test confirms some things and yet raises more questions. We need more testing on humans. There are people willing to be lab rats out there so why not?

I'm pre-cycle. Had a hard day of work, then cardio. Now I'm DOWNING A COUPLE BASS ALES. Research indicates drinking beer may shorten one's life. But more research is needed. Anyone want to volunteer?

 

[Jimmykick]

I'm pre-cycle. Had a hard day of work, then cardio. Now I'm DOWNING A COUPLE BASS ALES. Research indicates drinking beer may shorten one's life. But more research is needed. Anyone want to volunteer?

LOL - I'll bring the weed so we can research frying a few brain cells

 

[Ponderosa]

Jimmy - let me know when you retire your avatar; I'll take it. Only one male mug is better than a face full of tits. What the fuck, Christopher? You high?

 

[Trevdog]

OK,

here's a study done considering both overweight and obesity in regards to mortality on 500000+ people:

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/NEJMoa055643

...Conclusions Excess body weight during midlife, including overweight, is associated with an increased risk of death....

Thoms, I'm surprised you would choose this study to support your claims. It doesn't. I'll point out the obvious. Only a very small percentage of the "overweight" people included in this study are "overweight" because they are muscular. Most of them are overweight because they carry a lot of excess body fat. As we all know, this is generally caused by lack of exercise, poor diet, excess alcohol, etc. No surprise that these people would, on average, live shorter lives.

It would be a HUGE surprise, however, if you could show that a person such as myself, who exercises religiously, watches his diet, doesn't smoke, and is leaner than the typical 180 lb. guy my age - would tend to live a shorter life than that typical guy.

 

[Trevdog]

FACT The human heart can pump about 51 million gallons (193 million liters) of blood before it gives out. FACT this will let a normal-bodyweight person live to the age of 70 FACT the extra weight on your body requires extra blood FACT your heart won't last that long.

I don't know where you are getting these claims, but they certainly aren't facts.

I don't know how much "extra" blood has because I'm more muscular than I would be if I didn't exercise, but I know this much - exercise increases the heart's staying power and tends to lengthen our lives. It appears that you even question this basic FACT, it seems you are claiming that every time we exercise we are shortening our lives by using up more heartbeats.

 

[Trevdog]

It's merely an illustration, and not about steroids, but mostly about working out. When you work out you put twice as much stress on your body than normal. It becomes damaged and needs to recuperate. And we do it our entire lives. As a general rule, if you use something more extensively, it gives up quicker. Do I believe it will lead to a shortened life? Yes I do. Probably not by much, but I do. You believe your body keeps preserved all the way to the end. I don't. I hope that clears my opinion up a little.

It does. You're simply claiming that exercise isn't good for your health and won't prolong your life. You claim that working out is actually bad for you and shortens your life.

You're out there bro. Way out there.

 

[Trevdog]

And I haven't even gotten to the direct side-effects of steroid use. Bad lipid profile, cholesterol, blood pressure and stiffening of the heart muscle all contribute to an untimely dead. (And please don't make me post studies linking BP etc. to death). I don't go and ask myself if steroid use will shorten my life. I ask myself what I can do to prolong my life as much as possible. 90% of steroid use is damage control.

Now you're making good sense.