Oxandrolone could be taken all year round

[Jeff_rys]

"Jeff, what brands of Ox have you used and how do you rank them?"

It where IP's, yellow 10 mgr. Since those no longer exist, it will not hurt to say this, i guess.

Jeff

 

[Drveejay11]

(originally posted by AnimalMass)

While injecting test increases protein synthesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.

Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.

Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen synthesis while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.

Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.

You can plan a cycle of Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.

Deca, Equipoise, Anavar, and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) like sus, cyp, or enth.

While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.

To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.

Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood.

Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.

Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.

Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.

These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle clomid use. Here they are:

Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days

Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.

GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.

Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.

Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) -- the decision is up to you.

GREAT post! Invaluable information

 

[Sanjac]

Mudge, thanks for the response, but your post does not give any evidence. If "animalmass" is Animal, I would be hesitant to take his word on a given subject. That is not to say that he isn't right some of the time, but I have had too much experience with his "knowledge" to accept that he is right all of the time. As for collagen synthesis, he might have confused fibroblast proliferation with actual synthesis of collagen, but I do not see evidence of anything other than a transitory effect on collagen synthesis.
*******************
Effects of sex hormones on mesangial cell proliferation and collagen synthesis.

Kidney Int. 1996 Oct;50(4):1173-9

Kwan G, Neugarten J, Sherman M, Ding Q, Fotadar U, Lei J, Silbiger S.

"...Testosterone did not affect collagen synthesis..."
*******************
Stimulation of collagen synthesis by the anabolic steroid stanozolol.

Researchers: Falanga V, Greenberg AS, Zhou L, Ochoa SM, Roberts AB, Falabella A, Yamaguchi Y.

J Invest Dermatol. 1998 Dec;111(6):1193-7.

"...There was no stimulation of collagen synthesis by testosterone..."
**********************

Plus, real-life experiences throughout the last several decades give numerous examples of bodybuilders that used testosterone-only and did not suffer from "...having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man...". Bear in mind that I believe testosterone should be allowed to aromatize (to estrogen) to some extent. I do not advocate heavy use of anti-aromatases such as letrozole, etc.

SJ

 

[StoneColdNTO]

If "animalmass" is Animal, I would be hesitant to take his word on a given subject.
SJ

No....they are two different beasts.......LOL

 

[TxLonghorn]

I do not advocate heavy use of anti-aromatases such as letrozole, etc.

Boy, I sure do. I used to get itchy nips all the damn time, and I'm talking on hrt type doses, ridiculous shit, even 400mg eq only would do it. Nolva wouldn't help, arimidex wouldn't help...hello letro...ahhhh, that did it.

I agree that it would be good to have some estrogen in there, however some are more sensitive than others.

 

[Drveejay11]

Great thread...BUMP

By the way...where's Jeff_Rys been?

 

[blackbeard]

great read..thnks for the bump

 

[iron]

it cant end like this.

 

[Gel]

I haven't read all these posts but here's one for you.

I took 60mg Var for 8 weeks, great stuff it is.

Every time I take it now though a certain lymph gland doubles in size until I stop administration.

So I no longer take Var.

Everything else is fine though.

Var REALLY REALLY REALLY does affect your liver values
Var at 60mg ED will shut you down completely in most case after 4 weeks, although recovery is quicker than a cycle of Test
Var does affect your prostrate.

How someone can post on here 'facts' without showing bloodwork to prove it is beyond me, you need to realise the impact your words will have on here, unless you can prove the results to us then you are being highly irresponsible.

Just because you took it for a long time doesn't make you an endo

 

[1HUGE1]

Nelson, I hadn't realized you had brought your toxic personality to this board.

Lucky me.

I would have thought you would have learned from having your ass handed to you at EF.

hehehe