PCT for coming off of 4 year cycle

[PapaNoel]

Would just straight up hgh be more effective at this? I was considering running 2-4iu/day to see if it would help, but was a little bit concerned with just having so much all going on at once..

No, not even close. CJC with or without DAC is not only superior to GH it's also far less expensive. So unless you already bought the GH, do like IMT recommended.
Combine it with GHRP-6 or GHRP-2. Or do like IMT says and combine CJC with Ipamorelin. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. Plusside with ipa is that it does not increase cortisol or prolactin at any dose.
Standard dose would be something like 600mcg twice per week if you're using DAC. Without DAC you need to inject at least twice per day. GHRP you can dose at 100-200mcg per day.

 

[IMT staff]

Would just straight up hgh be more effective at this? I was considering running 2-4iu/day to see if it would help, but was a little bit concerned with just having so much all going on at once.

Not when doing a restart, you would want something that stimulates the pituitary, not something suppressive. Honestly I am starting to wonder what's better for men rhGH or peptide therapy, rhGH mimics a female GH bleed, that's why you get so much water retention and it shuts down the thyroid.

So if you're a body builder looking for max gains, yea of course the rhGH would be better because you can just dose higher. With the peptides there is a saturation limit. But if your just trying to have the GH of a normal healthy male I would argue that peptides, especially IPAM/CJC are better than 2 IU per day of rhGH.

The exception would be those over 60-65 ish, their pituitary probably doesn't work anymore so they will not get stimulation from the peptides.

As for TT stimulation, many things are involved in the HPTA circle, getting the testes to just produce some T is not going to cut it, especially someone with your history.

You need to give it time to affect the nervous system, adrenals, thyroid etc.

I have been doing this stuff every day for over a decade now, I have never seen a restart work better than when using Serm/IPAM or CJC/IPAM.

Hope this helps.

 

[IMT]

If it dont work insert IMT. I can even post/pm you links directly to the forms for them. Their doctor knows more about my epilepsy meds effecting my endocrine system than my neurologist (old one), endocrinologist and my general doctor.

Thanks man!

 

[Sharkweek]

Thanks man!

I'm going to go ahead and run out this pct, if I have unsatisfactory results, I plan to contact you. It looks like you are semi-local to me based on the area code in your signature.

Wierd question: one testicle is noticeable larger than the other? Normal? Just give the one time to catch up? Maybe they were always different?

 

[PapaNoel]

I'm going to go ahead and run out this pct, if I have unsatisfactory results, I plan to contact you. It looks like you are semi-local to me based on the area code in your signature.

Wierd question: one testicle is noticeable larger than the other? Normal? Just give the one time to catch up? Maybe they were always different?

99% its just in your head bro. I was the same second cycle, my balls just shrunk insanely even while on HCG, i thought one was more jelly like, one was bigger, one was this and that and lol...
Try to look at things in the perspective from a week rather than days and even months. Because your treatment is measured in months closing up on a whole year anyhow.

 

[PapaNoel]

I have been doing this stuff every day for over a decade now, I have never seen a restart work better than when using Serm/IPAM or CJC/IPAM.
Hope this helps.

I have some cjc dac and ghrp6 laying around. Standard dosing I got about 7-8 weeks worth, its on the short end, i know...
My question is this, do you think it would be more beneficial to run them as part of my PCT (alongside proviron) rather than together with my super finish that will contain winny/anavar/masteron?

What do you think and why?

 

[Sharkweek]

99% its just in your head bro. I was the same second cycle, my balls just shrunk insanely even while on HCG, i thought one was more jelly like, one was bigger, one was this and that and lol...
Try to look at things in the perspective from a week rather than days and even months. Because your treatment is measured in months closing up on a whole year anyhow.

I kinda figured as much, I guess it's only been 8 days, after roughly 1200 on. I know I have atleast another 50 days of pct. I had never used hcg previously, just clomid/nolva, it is crazy how fast the hcg works comparatively. Big thanks again to everyone who has commented/suggested anything so far.

Still feeling pretty good, only real difference so far is that I don't seem to sleep as well, and I don't seem to be as focused. Still eating pretty well, I have lost roughly 8-10 lbs over the past 3 weeks, mostly just water weight it seems.

 

[PapaNoel]

Usually you count it from time on + pct = time off.
So in your world, you'd be needing about 1258 days off now before touching gear again haha

 

[Sharkweek]

Usually you count it from time on + pct = time off.
So in your world, you'd be needing about 1258 days off now before touching gear again haha

Planning on atleast a year, most likely closer to 2. Maybe never, see how life goes, especially if we can have a kid.

 

[IMT staff]

Wierd question: one testicle is noticeable larger than the other? Normal? Just give the one time to catch up? Maybe they were always different?

HCG stimulates the leydig cells in the testes and that only makes up 10% of the teste. So size is not a good indicator of function. But yea they were probably always different.

 

[themotherload]

I'm going to go ahead and run out this pct, if I have unsatisfactory results, I plan to contact you. It looks like you are semi-local to me based on the area code in your signature.

Wierd question: one testicle is noticeable larger than the other? Normal? Just give the one time to catch up? Maybe they were always different?

maybe they where always diferent?

 

[Sharkweek]

Just another quick update:

Testicles continue to grow in size, still some on and off soreness there. Still feel pretty strong, still good libido, etc.

Bloodwork scheduled in 5 days, which will be the day before my potential last hcg pin. I have another 5000iu if needed after bloodwork. Going to get more asin, and use that instead of the adex.

 

[PapaNoel]

Why are you stressing blood work this early?
Won't it be pretty pointless or what are you looking for?

 

[Sharkweek]

Why are you stressing blood work this early?
Won't it be pretty pointless or what are you looking for?

A couple reasons, maybe they are wrong. My main concern is if the hcg is actually making my testes produce testosterone. Concern is that them being shut down for so long caused any permanent atrophy/damage. To me this shows that they have "woken up".

Second reason, is to see where estrogen levels are.

Third, is to see what my cholesterol is like off of the androgens. I know it will likely continue to change over the next couple months, but test/tren/dbol isnt great for the lipid profile.

I also plan to get bloodwork done during the nolva/clomid phase to make sure the upper half of the hpta is sending out the lh/fsh once signalled. Just to make sure that is also "woken up".

 

[scorob777]

What a great thread this is.

 

[Nicky_eye_lids]

What a great thread this is.

welcome bqck tankman!

 

[PapaNoel]

A couple reasons, maybe they are wrong. My main concern is if the hcg is actually making my testes produce testosterone. Concern is that them being shut down for so long caused any permanent atrophy/damage. To me this shows that they have "woken up".

Second reason, is to see where estrogen levels are.

Third, is to see what my cholesterol is like off of the androgens. I know it will likely continue to change over the next couple months, but test/tren/dbol isnt great for the lipid profile.

I also plan to get bloodwork done during the nolva/clomid phase to make sure the upper half of the hpta is sending out the lh/fsh once signalled. Just to make sure that is also "woken up".

All good reasons except the results won't be accurate. It's the same as doing blood work after injecting testosterone, of course the values will be higher then if you didn't.
For example, its pointless to do bloodwork after clomid use the first 11 weeks after stopping because it'll still be in your body and producing unnatural levels of testerone. (Personally, on clomid only, i raise my testo by 30-40%)
Same thing with HCG doing bloodwork just days after.

In your shoes, i'd probably opt for 3 blood works.
One pre reference to base everything off.
Then 3 months after you started (which will still be on PCT drugs active in your body but bleeding down)
Then 3 months after that (when you haven't taken a single thing).

Then I would reevaluate my situation.
Wouldn't be surprised if you need double that time.

That's just me though, to save money, you can never really take to many blood works long as you can afford it

 

[Sharkweek]

All good reasons except the results won't be accurate. It's the same as doing blood work after injecting testosterone, of course the values will be higher then if you didn't.
For example, its pointless to do bloodwork after clomid use the first 11 weeks after stopping because it'll still be in your body and producing unnatural levels of testerone. (Personally, on clomid only, i raise my testo by 30-40%)
Same thing with HCG doing bloodwork just days after.

In your shoes, i'd probably opt for 3 blood works.
One pre reference to base everything off.
Then 3 months after you started (which will still be on PCT drugs active in your body but bleeding down)
Then 3 months after that (when you haven't taken a single thing).

Then I would reevaluate my situation.
Wouldn't be surprised if you need double that time.

That's just me though, to save money, you can never really take to many blood works long as you can afford it

I know they won't be anywhere near accurate as far as what my levels would be without any supplementation, but I mostly just want to make sure my body can physically still make it's own test, and secrete it's own lh/fsh. I figure for $70 and an hour of my time it's worth it to me.

My plan for bloodwork is maybe more than needed, but here it is:

After 2 weeks/10,000IU of HCG
After 4 weeks of Nolva/Clomid at 50/40, 50/40, 25/20, 25/20
Then 8 weeks after cessation of all serms/AI
Then most likely 8 weeks after that as well.

I have extra HCG and Nolva/Clomid/Asin on hand in case I need to stretch those out any longer; I'm planning to base those decisions on the bloodwork.

EX: if after two weeks of HCG My test levels are supra-physiological then I know my testes are capable of producing the necessary test (I know it is a false signal, but they can physically do it). If not, I will run the other 5,000IU of HCG over the next 10 days and get bloodwork done again.

EX2: If after 4 weeks of nolva/clomid my lh/fsh are supra-physiological then I know my pituitary/hypothalamus can at least physically make the necessary amounts. At that point I would begin tapering off the SERMs over the following 2-3 weeks. Hoping that as they fall below supra-physiological levels the feedback loop would take over and my body would begin to do it all on it's own. If LH/FSH are low still, then I know I need a more aggressive SERM recovery; and can adjust accordingly.

Maybe this is wrong, if so, feel free to correct me. I'd rather be wrong now, and recover better; but that's roughly how I understand the process.

 

[Argon Coagulator]

Having higher test levels from HCG is not indicative of a un-damaged HPTA at all. The HCG is telling your balls to produce T and upon cessation of HCG your levels may plummet if you still aren't producing enough LH and FSH on your own. This is a common occurrence during Medical Practice in which the physician will typically resort to TRT if the patient can't produce testosterone on their own after a year of HCG therapy.

 

[PapaNoel]

I thought you wanted to see how well you recovered but you seem to be more inline with recovering at all?
Pretty sure you have not caused permanent damage as in not functional at all. You most likely have damaged your natural values beyond a standard recovery.

I'd throw in some proviron at about 25-50mg per day starting with SERMs and run it for the same duration.
I'd also double or triple your PCT duration. Standard treatment is 3 months, sometimes up to a year.

Far as the blood work, they are excessive and I personally don't see the benefit but like I said before, you can't have to many blood works and if its only 70 bucks and a an hour for you, please go ahead with your plan.
I'd be interested to see the results for sure