Preferred Anti-E -- LDex, Femera, or Aromasin

[J steel]

Even after all my research on the "best" anti-E, my head is still spinning. When I say best, I mean the most effective with the least ill side effects........I do not want price to be a factor, assume it is equal for all.

I've read numerous times that Ldex and Femera will affect lipid panel, but now I've read that Aromasin can as well. Let's hear real world experiences with all of these.

Please pick your top choice and feel free to add reasons why.

 

[Conan35]

There is a difference between anti-es and anti-aromatase

 

[mvmaxx]

Aromasin all the way. It's the only one that will suppress estrogen the most w/o fucking with your cholesterol levels and jacking your lipid profile.

 

[bluewizz]

Aromasin all the way. It's the only one that will suppress estrogen the most w/o fucking with your cholesterol levels and jacking your lipid profile.

thats my problem with it.....the fact that its SO effective against estrogen. u really dont want to suppress it that much. aromasin will remain too much for me, until i start to do super amounts of test, dbol.....ect. but for the avergae juicer i think arimidex is best, because it does not COMPLETELY suppress estrogen.

 

[J steel]

I read the following in a good post at MuscleChemistry.com

both arimidex/ldex/anastrozole and femara/letrozole hurt your cholesterol. the way these 2 anti e's work is they inhibit the aromatase enzyme. by inhibiting the enzyme which converts testosterone to estrogen, you reduce or even come close to eliminating estrogen production. we need some estrogen to be healthy. the major drawback to this is without estrogen, your lipid profile gets fucked.

exemestane works differently. it does not stop the body from producing estrogen. rather, it makes it so the estrogen is unable to bind to receptors by deactivating the binding enzyme. if the estrogen cannot bind, you simply will not get bloated or get gyno. the estrogen is crippled due to exemestane. however, since the estrogen is still floating around, it will not negatively affect your lipid/cholesterol profile.

So this to me says that letro and ldex are the ones that can come close to completely eliminating estrogen...........as evidenced by the screwed up lipid panels.
Aromasin, on the other hand, just deactivates the binding enzyme, but does not in the process eliminate the estrogen.

Providing this is fact, would you Bluewizz still agree with what you are saying?

 

[mvmaxx]

Great post.

 

[Sterno]

nice read!....

 

[StoneColdNTO]

Oh how I love to debate.........

Clin Cancer Res. 2003 Jan;9(1 Pt 2):468S-72S. Related Articles, Links


Pharmacology and pharmacokinetics of the newer generation aromatase inhibitors.

Buzdar AU.

Department of Breast Medical Oncology, The University of Texas M D Anderson Cancer Center, Houston, Texas 77030, USA. abuzdar@mdanderson.org

The newer generation aromatase inhibitors (AIs) as a class show efficacy and tolerability benefits over previously established treatments in postmenopausal women with advanced breast cancer. At clinically administered doses, the plasma half-lives of anastrozole (1 mg once daily), letrozole (2.5 mg once daily), and exemestane (25 mg once daily) are 41-48 h, 2-4 days, and 27 h, respectively. Time to steady-state plasma levels is 7 days for both anastrozole and exemestane and 60 days for letrozole. Androgenic side effects have only been reported with exemestane. Anastrozole treatment has no impact on plasma lipid levels, whereas both letrozole and exemestane have an unfavorable effect. From indirect comparisons, anastrozole shows the highest degree of selectivity compared with letrozole and exemestane, in terms of a lack of effect on adrenosteroidogenesis. To date, there are no data suggesting any major differences in clinical efficacy between the newer generation AIs anastrozole and letrozole. Based on the observed pharmacological profiles, however, it cannot be assumed that the AIs will display the same tolerability and safety profiles when given for extended periods of time in the adjuvant setting. The effects of anastrozole, letrozole, and exemestane are being investigated in the adjuvant setting, and these data will elucidate the possible long-term consequences of the pharmacological effects reported after short-term exposure.

-----------------------------

Cancer. 2002 Nov 1;95(9):2006-16. Related Articles, Links


An overview of the pharmacology and pharmacokinetics of the newer generation aromatase inhibitors anastrozole, letrozole, and exemestane.

Buzdar AU, Robertson JF, Eiermann W, Nabholtz JM.

Department of Breast Medical Oncology, The University of Texas M. D. Anderson Cancer Center, Houston 77030, USA. abuzdar@mdanderson.org

BACKGROUND: The newer generation, nonsteroidal aromatase inhibitors (AIs) anastrozole and letrozole have shown superior efficacy compared with tamoxifen as first-line treatments and compared with megestrol acetate as second-line therapy in postmenopausal women with advanced breast carcinoma. In an open-label, Phase II trial, it was reported that exemestane showed numerical superiority compared with tamoxifen for objective response and clinical benefit. Because these agents ultimately may be administered for periods of up to 5 years in the adjuvant setting, it is of increasing importance to assess their tolerability and pharmacologic profiles. METHODS: In the absence of data from direct clinical comparisons, the published literature was reviewed for the clinical pharmacology, pharmacokinetic characteristics, and selectivity profiles of anastrozole, letrozole, and exemestane. RESULTS: At clinically administered doses, the plasma half-lives of anastrozole (1 mg once daily), letrozole (2.5 mg once daily), and exemestane (25 mg once daily) were 41-48 hours, 2-4 days, and 27 hours, respectively. The time to steady-state plasma levels was 7 days for both anastrozole and exemestane and 60 days for letrozole. Androgenic side effects have been reported only with exemestane. Anastrozole treatment had no impact on plasma lipid levels, whereas both letrozole and exemestane had an unfavorable effect on plasma lipid levels. In indirect comparisons, anastrozole showed the highest degree of selectivity compared with letrozole and exemestane in terms of a lack of effect on adrenosteroidogenesis. CONCLUSIONS: All three AIs demonstrated clinical efficacy over preexisting treatments. However, there were differences in terms of pharmacokinetics and effects on lipid levels and adrenosteroidogenesis. The long-term clinical significance of these differences remains to be elucidated. Copyright 2002 American Cancer Society.


http://www.steroidology.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6472

 

[J steel]

I read this in one of Hhajdo's other posts...........thanks for putting it here SC.

I would love to see some more opinions on this. I know DRJMW really advocates using aromasin.........I'd like to see a doc's reaction to the info SC put up.

Keep this thing goin guys, lets really try to figure this out.

 

[E-Swift25]

Great post

 

[StoneColdNTO]

Keep this thing goin guys, lets really try to figure this out.

It may be one of those things that varies from individual to individual, when differennt studies start conflicting each other, you know you got problems getting an answer.

My last cycle , although kinda light, was Test enanthate @ 437 mg/week for 12 weeks, I also took 1 mg Arimidex EOD, Nolvadex @ 20 mg/day, as well as Flush Free Niacin.....and my HDL barely moved (I had blood work done pre & post cycle to prove it)

 

[hhajdo]

I read the following in a good post at MuscleChemistry.com


Aromasin, on the other hand, just deactivates the binding enzyme, but does not in the process eliminate the estrogen.

This is complete BS.
I can't beleive that someone would claim that exemestane doesn't lower plasma estrogen.
If anything, I would expect it to be slightly worse since it's thought to have androgenic metabolites...

It's also ridiculous that you're so worried about the impact of aromatase inhibitors on your lipid profile, but your not worried about the effect of stanozolol that you plan to include in your cycle...

Only 10 mg of stanozolol ED will lower your HDL much more than any of those A.I's & it will also increase your LDL.

If you're so worried about your cholesterol, just use test + tamoxifen.

 

[J steel]

Hhajdo, I dont think any of this is ridiculous. I do not know everything there is to know about this subject. I am trying to learn, as I have so much in the past from this great forum.

I am looking at this piece by piece, trying to understand how different compounds affect the body. Just because something seems common sense to you does not mean it does to everyone else. I appreciate people like you coming out and identifying the facts from the bullshit, but I think no question is ever ridiculous. I am doing as much research as I can, but like SC said, when clinical studies start to contradict each other, its difficult to come to a conclusion.

And yes, I am aware as to the bigger impact Winstrol (winny) may have on cholesterol..........but like I said, I am looking at each separate component of a cycle...........I never said that A.I.'s were the part that is the most detrimental to your health.

Thanks as always to everyone for their input. But I guess it really is a matter of personal preference. And what you choose to believe.

 

[Ifrit]

I prefer Nolvadex for PCT.

 

[mvmaxx]

Very interesting. I had always seen the opposite in regards to the effects of Anastrozole on the lipid profiles.

Also, there's no way any of these beat Nolva in preventing gyno. I don't care what study gets posted.

 

[DirkMoneyshot]

I didn't read anyone other posts so here is what i like.......For Moderate cycles (>1,000mg), I prefer PROVIRON 25 - 50mg ED. This drug in my opinion is highly underated. High Dosage (1,000 - 2,000mg) I like to use a combo of Arimidex and Proviron. Proviron @ 50mg ED and (This one will be critized) but i like Arimidex @ 1mg ONCE A WEEK. I do this cause i want to supress Estrogen not eliminate it. I think people go to heavy on Anti-Estrogens.

 

[liftsiron]

Very interesting. I had always seen the opposite in regards to the effects of Anastrozole on the lipid profiles.

Also, there's no way any of these beat Nolva in preventing gyno. I don't care what study gets posted.

I hear you

 

[liftsiron]

I didn't read anyone other posts so here is what i like.......For Moderate cycles (>1,000mg), I prefer PROVIRON 25 - 50mg ED. This drug in my opinion is highly underated. High Dosage (1,000 - 2,000mg) I like to use a combo of Arimidex and Proviron. Proviron @ 50mg ED and (This one will be critized) but i like Arimidex @ 1mg ONCE A WEEK. I do this cause i want to supress Estrogen not eliminate it. I think people go to heavy on Anti-Estrogens.

I perfer proviron when ever available at a reasonable price.

 

[nuttz565]

liq-letro has been great for me..........its got my vote

 

[!@#$%^&]

I am also in a similar situation where im trying to decide which anti E to use. I want the best anti-e that will stop gyno but allow the most muscle growth at the same time. Proviron was my first choice. I was told it is not an effective anti-e or anti-aromatase. My previous conclusion was to use Femara (letro) because it is supposedly the only one that does not effect IGF-1 levels, which will help you grow considerably. I didn’t know Femara completely suppresses estrogen. Is there anti-a’s that will only block the aromitization and not suppress estrogen? What is more important for muscle growth if you have to make a choice, IGF-1 or estrogen?