Pro bodybuilders advice given to me.

[armenianiron]

So I just got done speaking to a nabba professional bodybuilder and told him about the first cycle I planned on doing which was 600mg of test enanthate a week with arimidex, and Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) during, and a nolva and clomid pct afterwards and this was his response....
"Hello there. Gonna get straight to the chase and break down your cycle, as it does not look good the way it is.
First of all, I recommend enthanate because it is just a tiny bit less duration in the body as cypionate (7 carbons vs cypionates 8 carbons)
Second of all, 600mg is way too much. Wayyyy too much. Unless this is going to be your only cycle EVER I would recommend dropping that by half. 300mg/wk divided into 2 doses is perfect. Receptors will saturate at 750mg at your level anyways.

Drop the HCG, drop the Aromatase inhibitor (AI). The Aromatase inhibitor (AI) will only inhibit your gains during the cycle, and should only be used if absolutly necessary (if you start to see signs of estrogen-related sides)
HCG is only truly necessary IMO when coming off of large cycles where your body will have a grea deal of "rebound" coming off of it. This substance is supposed to bring your bodys hormone levels back to homeostasis.

If you're going to PCT, choose nolva or clomid. Run it 2 weeks after your last injection for 4 weeks. 40/40/20/20

That's it. There's no need to overdo the PCT, it's just as bad as not having one.
Keep the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) on hand though, that's a smart move."

 

[hard2gain]

300 is pretty low bro. I would say 400-500 is the sweet spot for a first cycle, 600 is on the steep side for a first cycle. It's your first cycle and you are gonna have BIG gains so no need to drag any un-needed side affects into it with larger amounts of gear. He's def. right about the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) just keep it on hand and see if your body has any estro sides from test so you know. Many I know don't get them from test alone. Most importantly just keep your diet straight and have fun!

 

[armenianiron]

Well I have reconsidered waiting another 2 years until I'm over 21 and starting my first cycle in another 3 months once I start bulking because most pro's start at my age (most of the time even younger *the professional i talked to started at 18) and that is my goal. I have researched about steroids for over a year now, and feel I am mature enough and ready to take them, and I know I have the genetics to go far, so it is a leap I am willing to take. This is why I'm guessing he recommended a 300mg a week dose for me.

 

[coltmc45]

Most, and I say most, not all, testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) doses are 200-250 a week. Your natty test at your age is more then likely over what you would get out of 300 a week. I can see his reasoning for this but what's the point in shutting yourself down and risking being shut down for good over a cycle that's just over testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) levels? There isn't one. 500 a week is a good first cycle. You should get bloodwork done and see where your levels are now. I know that you aren't planning on running for 2 years but I would get them done now and before your cycle. My reasoning for this, and this is just my opinion, is get them done now to see where your at and have a basline because obviously they are still high and your gaining where they're currently at. Get them done a few months before your cycle to see where your at then. You can pick a dose at that time. Dawg recommends 400-600 for first cycles. My thought process is the same as the advice you were given, the less gear you have to run the better because it's less sides. I definitely wouldn't run anything under 400mg a week though. You'll be 21 when you run it and your test levels are still high and there's no point in risking your health if your levels on a cycle are barley higher then where they're at natty. As far as Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) goes, I don't see a need to run it the entire cycle because you're only running test. Just blast at the end. Anything to help aide in recovery you shouldn't take lightly. If you're going to just run 1 serm in pct I would choose clomid over nolva and run it 50/50/50/50. Have some stane on hand during cycle and run it during pct even if you don't on cycle.

 

[armenianiron]

You may have misread what I said above. I said I RECONSIDERED waiting another 2 years, meaning that I plan on going on in another 3 months. I weighed myself this a.m at 173 at 5'6 under 10% bodyfat...I've never heard of anyone shutting themselves down permanently, besides olympia tier bodybuilders who run cycles year round...?

 

[biggpoppa]

good advice

I know it says I'm a new guy! But I've been in the game many years ..... and on other forums!!!! Just new to this forum. I agree with all posts 600mgs may be a little much but I'd shoot for like 400-500mgs keep the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) on hand but not alot of people have problems with Just a test cycle! But you never know! And bitch tits are the pits!! I'd recommended thinking about waiting a while. I've seen it go both ways with guys your age. I know a guy who packed on about 50lbs of good muscle and I also know a guy who had major complications and actually had to have his bitch tits surgically removed!
Best thing you can do is keep the diet clean and work hard and get your rest! I know when you start putting.g muscle on the ladies will be lining up but you need your rest brotha.

 

[Solid Snake]

i would re-reconsider...youre too young.

 

[Cobra Strike]

I see we have a new genius on this board

 

[Necrosis]

I see we have a new genius on this board

Sure looks like it, Honestly the concept isn't complex at all... First cycle keep it compound basic you have a very easy general range to work with also as far as dosage goes.

Now the important part still rests in your PCT, doesn't matter what you're running it's always advised to practice proper pct protocol.... Don't be a smart ass and don't be impatient, once you continue to ignore great advice you'll soon ending up receiving none...

 

[joeyh1991]

So I just got done speaking to a nabba professional bodybuilder and told him about the first cycle I planned on doing which was 600mg of test enanthate a week with arimidex, and Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) during, and a nolva and clomid pct afterwards and this was his response....
"Hello there. Gonna get straight to the chase and break down your cycle, as it does not look good the way it is.
First of all, I recommend enthanate because it is just a tiny bit less duration in the body as cypionate (7 carbons vs cypionates 8 carbons)
Second of all, 600mg is way too much. Wayyyy too much. Unless this is going to be your only cycle EVER I would recommend dropping that by half. 300mg/wk divided into 2 doses is perfect. Receptors will saturate at 750mg at your level anyways.

Drop the HCG, drop the Aromatase inhibitor (AI). The Aromatase inhibitor (AI) will only inhibit your gains during the cycle, and should only be used if absolutly necessary (if you start to see signs of estrogen-related sides)
HCG is only truly necessary IMO when coming off of large cycles where your body will have a grea deal of "rebound" coming off of it. This substance is supposed to bring your bodys hormone levels back to homeostasis.

If you're going to PCT, choose nolva or clomid. Run it 2 weeks after your last injection for 4 weeks. 40/40/20/20

That's it. There's no need to overdo the PCT, it's just as bad as not having one.
Keep the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) on hand though, that's a smart move."

i agree with this except for the fact of the dose, i think 400mg at the least. he is just probly bn conservative tho for you. i dont run Aromatase inhibitor (AI) unless i need it witch i never have. no pct either, never have needed it.

 

[Necrosis]

i agree with this except for the fact of the dose, i think 400mg at the least. he is just probly bn conservative tho for you. i dont run Aromatase inhibitor (AI) unless i need it witch i never have. no pct either, never have needed it.

No PCT huh..... Never needed it huh? Yeah okay, how has the ballon effect been going for you? Like it????

Anyway, I'd advise proper pct buddy... Magnate worked for you (even though I figure you're being sarcastic) but this is not something newbs need to be doing..

 

[bigherm2121]

You may have misread what I said above. I said I RECONSIDERED waiting another 2 years, meaning that I plan on going on in another 3 months. I weighed myself this a.m at 173 at 5'6 under 10% bodyfat...I've never heard of anyone shutting themselves down permanently, besides olympia tier bodybuilders who run cycles year round...?

Why do you think people take test? Cus theirs is shutdown. Go ahead and take 50mg of dbol a day and let us know how you feel!! 200mg of test will shut you down. Most people thay take gear their whole life have a lot of troubles later in life

 

[Necrosis]

Why do you think people take test? Cus theirs is shutdown. Go ahead and take 50mg of dbol a day and let us know how you feel!! 200mg of test will shut you down. Most people thay take gear their whole life have a lot of troubles later in life

2nd... Easily!!

 

[coltmc45]

You may have misread what I said above. I said I RECONSIDERED waiting another 2 years, meaning that I plan on going on in another 3 months. I weighed myself this a.m at 173 at 5'6 under 10% bodyfat...I've never heard of anyone shutting themselves down permanently, besides olympia tier bodybuilders who run cycles year round...?

I didnt misread anything. I was writing my response to your first post before you posted the 2nd... That being said, yes, it is possible to shut yourself down permentely even from one test only cycle. Its rare, but it has happened. I know at 19 you think "nah that could never happen to me!" but it can. Also, at 19 i can almost guarantee your growth plates aren't closed. At 5' 6" you're short. Taking AAS WILL close your growth plates. Average males can continue growing in height up until almost 25 if I'm not mistaken. Just trying to help you out dude. You went from being patient and waiting 2 years in your post a day or 2 ago and got your entire cycle tweaked for you to now your running in 3 months. I'm thinking that maybe you already planned to run in 3 months but didn't want to get flamed so you said 2 years and so you could get good responses and helped from everyone because I've never seen anybody on ology except other young users condone someone as young as you to use gear.

 

[coltmc45]

no post cycle therapy (pct) either, never have needed it.

Please don't post stupid shit like this. Some other idiot might actually do this and fuck himself up.

 

[Necrosis]

Not going to lie it look like you hit the nail right on the head with this one, I was impressed with him at first along with his pics and his patience... Little did I suspect he was going to take that all in just so he could start a cycle 3 months later, some kids never learn. He knew his intent prior to making that thread...

I was writing my post before you posted... That being said, yes, it is possible to shut yourself down permentely even from one test only cycle. Its rare, but it has happened. I know at 19 you think "nah that could never happen to me!" but it can. Also, at 19 i can almost guarantee your growth plates aren't closed. At 5' 6" you're short. Taking AAS WILL close your growth plates. Average males can continue growing in height up until almost 25 if I'm not mistaken. Just trying to help you out dude. You went from being patient and waiting 2 years in your post a day or 2 ago and got your entire cycle tweaked for you to now your running in 3 months. I'm thinking that maybe you already planned to run in 3 months but didn't want to get flamed so you said 2 years and so you could get good responses and helped from everyone because I've never seen anybody on ology except other young users condone someone as young as you to use gear.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

So I just got done speaking to a nabba professional bodybuilder and told him about the first cycle I planned on doing which was 600mg of test enanthate a week with arimidex, and Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) during, and a nolva and clomid pct afterwards and this was his response....
"Hello there. Gonna get straight to the chase and break down your cycle, as it does not look good the way it is.
First of all, I recommend enthanate because it is just a tiny bit less duration in the body as cypionate (7 carbons vs cypionates 8 carbons)
Second of all, 600mg is way too much. Wayyyy too much. Unless this is going to be your only cycle EVER I would recommend dropping that by half. 300mg/wk divided into 2 doses is perfect. Receptors will saturate at 750mg at your level anyways.

Drop the HCG, drop the Aromatase inhibitor (AI). The Aromatase inhibitor (AI) will only inhibit your gains during the cycle, and should only be used if absolutly necessary (if you start to see signs of estrogen-related sides)
HCG is only truly necessary IMO when coming off of large cycles where your body will have a grea deal of "rebound" coming off of it. This substance is supposed to bring your bodys hormone levels back to homeostasis.

If you're going to PCT, choose nolva or clomid. Run it 2 weeks after your last injection for 4 weeks. 40/40/20/20

That's it. There's no need to overdo the PCT, it's just as bad as not having one.
Keep the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) on hand though, that's a smart move."

The advice here isn't bad most of it is opinion and its not too far from waht is needed.

Here is the questions i would have for him:

Why would an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) inhibit your gains?

No one has ever proved that estrogen helps build muscle, the only person I have seen even come close to this is Llewellyn. In the article you will see that only a small amount of estrogen is needed to support his theory. So would taking a very light dose of an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) inhibit muscle building effects? I highly doubt it. would taking too much Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and squashing most of your estrogen inhibit muscle growth? probably, they key is the right doses.

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroids-bodybuilding-articles/391-aromatizable-androgens-anabolism-role-estrogen-muscle-growth.html#post2539

I would question his theory of saturation, but since it does not apply to this cycle (because of the light dose) we will not get into that.

I would question his reasoning for not using Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) (not that i think you have to use Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) on T only cycle, just dont like his reasoning).

HCG <------- "This substance is supposed to bring your bodys hormone levels back to homeostasis."

^ what does that even mean?

I would question his reasoning for Nolva over Clomid.

so nolva over clomid? why because of 3 or 4 studies on hypo or obese men showing that it raised T levels to a higher percentage? maybe these guys had primary hypo and not secondary hypo, therefore they did not need to restart the pituitary..............or a million other scenarios that make it near impossible to extrapolate information and apply it to your situation.

maybe because of the horror stories of clomid and blindness? maybe we dont need such a high dose.

like i said the information isn't bad, its just that i dont think he has the proper backround information to make that call. He could always say "well ive tried it both ways and this way worked better"

2 problems with that last quote:

1- everyone is different and will react differently to different substances and different dosages.

2- you could do the same exact cycle 3 times, and without a controlled setting it would be impossible to get the same results each time, there are just too many variables to use that quote. such as, diet was different from one time to the next, age was different each time, medication may have been UGL allowing discrepencies, i could go on and on and on.

Bottomline, take advice, use it sparringly and decide for yourself what is best for you.

EDIT: and after re reading you need to wait a few years, that i can be sure of.

 

[balboa270]

The advice here isn't bad most of it is opinion and its not too far from waht is needed.

Here is the questions i would have for him:

Why would an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) inhibit your gains?

No one has ever proved that estrogen helps build muscle, the only person I have seen even come close to this is Llewellyn. In the article you will see that only a small amount of estrogen is needed to support his theory. So would taking a very light dose of an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) inhibit muscle building effects? I highly doubt it. would taking too much Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and squashing most of your estrogen inhibit muscle growth? probably, they key is the right doses.

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroids-bodybuilding-articles/391-aromatizable-androgens-anabolism-role-estrogen-muscle-growth.html#post2539

I would question his theory of saturation, but since it does not apply to this cycle (because of the light dose) we will not get into that.

I would question his reasoning for not using Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) (not that i think you have to use Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) on T only cycle, just dont like his reasoning).

HCG <------- "This substance is supposed to bring your bodys hormone levels back to homeostasis."

^ what does that even mean?

I would question his reasoning for Nolva over Clomid.

so nolva over clomid? why because of 3 or 4 studies on hypo or obese men showing that it raised T levels to a higher percentage? maybe these guys had primary hypo and not secondary hypo, therefore they did not need to restart the pituitary..............or a million other scenarios that make it near impossible to extrapolate information and apply it to your situation.

maybe because of the horror stories of clomid and blindness? maybe we dont need such a high dose.

like i said the information isn't bad, its just that i dont think he has the proper backround information to make that call. He could always say "well ive tried it both ways and this way worked better"

2 problems with that last quote:

1- everyone is different and will react differently to different substances and different dosages.

2- you could do the same exact cycle 3 times, and without a controlled setting it would be impossible to get the same results each time, there are just too many variables to use that quote. such as, diet was different from one time to the next, age was different each time, medication may have been UGL allowing discrepencies, i could go on and on and on.

Bottomline, take advice, use it sparringly and decide for yourself what is best for you.

EDIT: and after re reading you need to wait a few years, that i can be sure of.

Good post

 

[joeyh1991]

Please don't post stupid shit like this. Some other idiot might actually do this and fuck himself up.

ok first of all i did not recomened anyone to not do a pct u dumb ass, i said i dont do it. i keep 90% of my gains when i come off with no problem so i dont need it i dont get all the bad sides like other guys, thats y i dont use an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) or post cycle therapy (pct). everyone is different.

 

[joeyh1991]

No PCT huh..... Never needed it huh? Yeah okay, how has the ballon effect been going for you? Like it????

Anyway, I'd advise proper pct buddy... Magnate worked for you (even though I figure you're being sarcastic) but this is not something newbs need to be doing..

dude shut up never said i newb had to do it like i said thats what works for me and i dont need it at all, i recover very good and keep most my gains, no BALLON effect ha ha wtf is that? evryone is different so dont go hatin on ppl that can get by with out a pct just cuz u need it.