Last i heard hes 280lbs 5% bf and saving up for a bigger mirror to show us pics
So with a ton of research i'm starting to think IGF-1 will does nothing unless pharm
- Thread starter goingtowin
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Last i heard hes 280lbs 5% bf and saving up for a bigger mirror to show us pics
Bruce Banner
G.F.H.
Can you please post any text book material that shows that exogenous IGF-1 is building muscle. I'm not talking about endogenous IGF-1, tought that was obvious.
/Bruce
jozifp103
New member
Research grade IGF IS real IGF. It's not a precursor like you said. The difference in quality from research grade to pharma is simply due to the lack of proper manufacturing abilities. There are cheap and easy ways to produce IGF-1, however this results in improperly formed molecules. The molecular makeup is the same as any pharmacy grade IGF, but some of the IGF molecules are not "folded" properly to fit and activate the receptor. It's simply not financially feasible for a research company to attain the equipment and know-how to produce pharmacy quality IGF-1.
There was one website that published mass spec results of several RC's IGF-1. They all passed but all had minor impurities.
jozifp103
New member
Milton
Administrator
Bruce Banner
G.F.H.
Ok, but studies has been made that resulted in 3-6 times higher serum concentrations of IGF-1 and HGH with no effect.
/Bruce
Bruce Banner
G.F.H.
Sorry, it does not need to be that. English is not my native language.
But my question is the same then, can someone post any hard facts that elevated levels produce more muscle growth in healthy adults? Text book material or not. I would be very glad to see it.
/Bruce
Roush
I am banned!
most articles out there on IGF-1 already 'assume' that increased levels in IGF1 promotes muscle growth . as for hard studies , they are probably out there
wellnessrx
Velloso, C. P. Regulation of muscle mass by growth hormone and IGF-I. British journal of pharmacology 154, 557-568, doi:10.1038/bjp.2008.153 (2008).
Mourkioti, F. & Rosenthal, N. IGF-1, inflammation and stem cells: interactions during muscle regeneration. Trends in immunology 26, 535-542, doi:10.1016/j.it.2005.08.002 (2005).
Bruce Banner
G.F.H.
Thanks, have you read those articels?
The first article by Velloso states:
and
and
I would say that this article clearly stats that I assume, high doses of exogenous HGH and IGF-1 does not result in more muscle growth.
The second one I can not see any claims that elevated IGF-1 levels is anabolic for muscle growth.
/Bruce
What do you expect to find? Hgh is for aids patients, burn victims, kids thet have growth defiecencys. They dont give people 10 or 20iis and study it lol believe it hgh with slin is what makes freaks. Nobody on this forum can tell you or help you because they dont use it or know people wgo compete at high levels. It peels fat off your body and pushes water into the muscles and blows you up to another level.
Bruce Banner
G.F.H.
I do not expect to find much other then bro-science, my personal guess is because there is no such effects.
It's not that in has not been looked into by some pretty smart people. A very quick look shows that doses above 10 IU/day has not shown any positive results regarding muscle growth in healthu adults.
/Bruce
Well you cant build sitting on a hospital bed aids patients take like bodybuilder doses. If igf has the ability to make a infant grow that sgould tell you something.
jozifp103
New member
I think it's pretty obvious at this point that IGF-1 plays a role in muscle growth. Before HGH, slin, and IGF-1 were used, the body builders were nowhere near the size they are now. Some things have enough evidence pointing to them to assume they are true.
But Bruce Banner is thinking like a true scientist in that NOTHING is true until proven.
I found this study (I'm horrible at interpreting studies) that shows that muscular hypertrophy CAN occur without the presence of growth factors. It is believed that the mechanical environment or "load" put on the muscle is, and always will be the main factor in muscle growth.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2375563/
Now that's not to say that growth factors don't increase muscular hypertrophy, it's just saying there's no definitive proof. There is hard evidence, but still no proof.
I'm gonna go ahead and be a believer that HGH and IGF-1 plays a very big role in muscle growth, because...well....some things are just too obvious.
But Bruce Banner is thinking like a true scientist in that NOTHING is true until proven.
I found this study (I'm horrible at interpreting studies) that shows that muscular hypertrophy CAN occur without the presence of growth factors. It is believed that the mechanical environment or "load" put on the muscle is, and always will be the main factor in muscle growth.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2375563/
Now that's not to say that growth factors don't increase muscular hypertrophy, it's just saying there's no definitive proof. There is hard evidence, but still no proof.
I'm gonna go ahead and be a believer that HGH and IGF-1 plays a very big role in muscle growth, because...well....some things are just too obvious.
Milton
Administrator
what about faith? Faith is a hope in that which is not seen which is true.
Bruce Banner
G.F.H.
Well, not really, I do belive lots of stuff.
Like I said, some smart people as already looked in to this, many times. We are talking about people who is cutting edge in the human hormone systems and muscle growth. Not some random dude on the gym. I do not expect you to understand stuff like this because it's not easy. I certainly do not understand it myself in depth. And for claims like infants on IGF-1 grow "then we should do", needs no comment really.
Studies has been done one healthy adults doing BBing doses. And really no results. We are not talking AIDS patients here. So doses where high, above 10 IU, participants where old enough.
I'm not saying there can't be, or that it under no circumstances will be muscle growth from exogenous IGF-1 or HGH, but from a scientific standpoint there is absolutely no indications that it does. And I do rank that information pretty high, at least higher than people making statements having economic interest in this matter.
I do not think my standpoint is controversial here, I can not see it. I'm more than happy do take part in a discussion about possible reasons as of why BBers claiming they are growing on this stuff, but I'm sceptial in nature and does not buy every argument out there.
/Bruce
Bruce Banner
G.F.H.
No.
I'm just a simple counterpart for all the states "facts" out there. This industry is full of it, whether there is supplements or other claimed enhancing products.
/Bruce
Roush
I am banned!
so over the years , has it just mainly been diet and training that has made bodybuilders monsters today compared to 8 time olympian arnold, or is it the drugs and enhancements.
compare the pics
View attachment 565763
View attachment 565764
and tell me that something besides Dbol, Primo, test, etc.. that Arnold used, is making guys way bigger
