SWALE on some testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) drama...very good info with the drama
- Thread starter SWALE
- Start date
- Status
The Phone Guy said:
Apparantly you questioned his integrity and intent to send real gear not his integrity about being concerned wth your health?
shit any legit source has the integrity to send real gear...
bro, You can't exchange product integrity for medical ethics integrity
The Phone Guy
New member
Mr. dB said:
I believe he'd told me the clinic is primarily an Anti Aging Clinic. This clinic is dedicated to the health & well being of thoes getting a little older & needing to feel a little better as they do so.
Mr. Joyce also provides cycle doses where needed. I'd failed to convey my desire to pump it up, so I believe he must have assumed my request for test & deca was for HRT purposes. I just assumed I was on a cycle being a newbie and all. You guys made it clear to me that was in fact HRT & not a cycle as defined here at steroidology. I made a request to be placed on an actual bulking cycle & was accomodated. No real mystery.
The Phone Guy
New member
lion333 said:
Look, I'd posted my reply in the most honest, legit way I could. You can pick it apart & maybe find an error in expression here & there. I was questioning the fact that I was to send $$$ to a place in Florida in exchange for the promise of actual AS & not cooking oil or whatever. I do have a brain & it told me to proceed with caution... So I did. What, you just trust anyone based on their word? I've been scammed like this before & am very cautious as a result. You would be too or should be anyway.
And your right about any legit source has the integrity to send real gear. I just spend my money with caution, regardless of who it is.
The end result is, I can say without a doubt, Paul is the man & he's earned my trust.
This thread could go on forever and achieve nothing. I think a mod should lock it and let it die.
It's up to us as individuals to research our doctor's and find one who's therapy/approach we feel comfortable with.
IMO Swale has donated a ton of his time helping bro's on the boards with advice from his tried and true practises. He cares about his patients and the community not just making a quick buck.
He helped me find a clinic here in Toronto when I was having difficulty finding someone to treat me (my T levels were at the bottom of the ref. range and my old family doc wouldn't do a thing about it). Swale's approach to Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) and his articles and posts make a hell of a lot of sense to me. In fact, I refer to some of Swale's approaches to Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) when I visit my Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) doc as he knows Swale very well. I don't know a lot of doc's out there who would take time to help a bro out for nothing in return other then a thank you.
Swale, thanks for everything you have done for those in need of responsible HRT. Keep up the great work! Hope to see more informative posts from you in the future.
It's up to us as individuals to research our doctor's and find one who's therapy/approach we feel comfortable with.
IMO Swale has donated a ton of his time helping bro's on the boards with advice from his tried and true practises. He cares about his patients and the community not just making a quick buck.
He helped me find a clinic here in Toronto when I was having difficulty finding someone to treat me (my T levels were at the bottom of the ref. range and my old family doc wouldn't do a thing about it). Swale's approach to Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) and his articles and posts make a hell of a lot of sense to me. In fact, I refer to some of Swale's approaches to Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) when I visit my Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) doc as he knows Swale very well. I don't know a lot of doc's out there who would take time to help a bro out for nothing in return other then a thank you.
Swale, thanks for everything you have done for those in need of responsible HRT. Keep up the great work! Hope to see more informative posts from you in the future.
StoneColdNTO
Administrator
Mr. dB said:
....for $750 US ..........and 10ml each of compounded Deca and Test.
The Phone Guy
New member
StoneColdNTO said:
Yes, stone, $750.00 US. $150.00 for the deca & $100.00 test. The rest covers one time script, b/w & so on.
When this thread does finally die, I hope to see two fine people with the rare desire to help others on this forum. I think Mr. Joyce is cut from the same fabric as swale where the desire to help & educate for free is concerned. Give Paul a chance to prove to you he's a great wealth of knowledge & experience like Swale. Don't pass judgement without a fair trial.
Dr. James posted this on CEM, i do not think he would mind me reposting it:
•Medical Director of Palm Beach Life Extension (PBLE)
•HRT consultant for 4 ½ years
•Current Federal DEA registration
•Consultant for various Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) corporate entities
•Consultant for Sports Medicine and Tele-Medicine therapy
•Fellowship trained in tumor and reconstructive head and neck surgery—University of Miami
•Faculty appointments
•University of Miami
•Tufts University
•New England Medical Center Tumor Board
•Nassau University Medical Center—Long Island, New York
•Washington University—St. Louis, Missouri
•Hospital affiliations
•Lee Memorial Health System
•Jackson Memorial Hospital
•Deering Hospital—Miami, Florida
•Nassau University Hospital
•St. Lukes Hospital-East and West—St. Louis, Missouri
•Medical School
•Washington University
•Dental School
•Marquette University
•Surgical Residency
•Nassau University Medical Center
Perhaps swale would like to do a similar posting to level the playing ground.
jb
•Medical Director of Palm Beach Life Extension (PBLE)
•HRT consultant for 4 ½ years
•Current Federal DEA registration
•Consultant for various Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) corporate entities
•Consultant for Sports Medicine and Tele-Medicine therapy
•Fellowship trained in tumor and reconstructive head and neck surgery—University of Miami
•Faculty appointments
•University of Miami
•Tufts University
•New England Medical Center Tumor Board
•Nassau University Medical Center—Long Island, New York
•Washington University—St. Louis, Missouri
•Hospital affiliations
•Lee Memorial Health System
•Jackson Memorial Hospital
•Deering Hospital—Miami, Florida
•Nassau University Hospital
•St. Lukes Hospital-East and West—St. Louis, Missouri
•Medical School
•Washington University
•Dental School
•Marquette University
•Surgical Residency
•Nassau University Medical Center
Perhaps swale would like to do a similar posting to level the playing ground.
jb
Last edited:
NO, this thread does not need to be closed. What is going on here is a valuable debate... It needs to continue... I also have had positive dealings with Paul Joyce. He sent me my medication UP FRONT and I paid AFTER I got it... He does have a different approach than Swale and I think that is fine. I also respect Swale's attention and help on these boards. It is unfortunate that Swale takes that attitude that they cannot co-exist on the same board because they have different philosophies.. I actully believe that Swale would prescribe cycles if he felt it were legal. Paul Joyce does prescribe them as he believes it IS legal.
Paul is willing to be on the same boards with Swale, but Swale is not willing to be on the same boards with Paul. The stated reason being that he cannot condone what is going on does not hold water. If he does not like what is going on he can be there on the boards to debate and convince. If he truely believes what is going on is bad, he is doing a DISSERVICE by leaving...
Paul is willing to be on the same boards with Swale, but Swale is not willing to be on the same boards with Paul. The stated reason being that he cannot condone what is going on does not hold water. If he does not like what is going on he can be there on the boards to debate and convince. If he truely believes what is going on is bad, he is doing a DISSERVICE by leaving...
SomeBloke
Midnight Rodeo
i dont want to assist in diverting this thread further from its original course. all i have to say on the matter is as follows:
as another health professional on the boards (pharmacist) who lives in the same semi-hostile professional climate that SWALE practices in, and having read many of SWALE's posts on several boards, i would like to say that sincerity and truthfulness rings throughout his posts. His tone, his language, and his advice fit in perfectly with a superbly qualified and experienced health professional trying his utmost to help people on the board, all the while skimming the surface of professional ridicule and ostracision.
frankly, i find the suggestion that SWALE is financially motivated offensive, and perhaps worse, deeply deeply dissapointing. The emotion i felt when i read the phrase "fringe theories", pertaining to his HCG advice, was closer to disgust. I will not adress the poster of that comment in more detail in this thread, but the advice to use on concurrent days is very rational, pharmacokinetically.
SWALE mate, at this point i would not be surprised if you threw in the towel on the internet boards, and diverted your efforts to other, perhaps worthier, pursuits. in case this is the last post of mine you ever read, I just want to express my admiration and respect for you, the way you have conducted yourself, and the positive influence you have exerted during your time.
cheers mate
by the way, hope you werent too hungov... errrr... sleepy on the day after your birthday
as another health professional on the boards (pharmacist) who lives in the same semi-hostile professional climate that SWALE practices in, and having read many of SWALE's posts on several boards, i would like to say that sincerity and truthfulness rings throughout his posts. His tone, his language, and his advice fit in perfectly with a superbly qualified and experienced health professional trying his utmost to help people on the board, all the while skimming the surface of professional ridicule and ostracision.
frankly, i find the suggestion that SWALE is financially motivated offensive, and perhaps worse, deeply deeply dissapointing. The emotion i felt when i read the phrase "fringe theories", pertaining to his HCG advice, was closer to disgust. I will not adress the poster of that comment in more detail in this thread, but the advice to use on concurrent days is very rational, pharmacokinetically.
SWALE mate, at this point i would not be surprised if you threw in the towel on the internet boards, and diverted your efforts to other, perhaps worthier, pursuits. in case this is the last post of mine you ever read, I just want to express my admiration and respect for you, the way you have conducted yourself, and the positive influence you have exerted during your time.
cheers mate
by the way, hope you werent too hungov... errrr... sleepy on the day after your birthday
The Phone Guy said:
I have read this thread and it seems that Swale left CEM because he did not want to be associated with Mr. Joyce. Why because in addition to practicing Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) medicine he sells steroid cycles. Which is highly illegal and unethical. I am basing this on the above statements of The phone Guy who claims to be Mr. Joyces patient as I do not know either. Both fine gentlemen I am sure. Kudo's to Swale for providing awesome Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) to his patients and keeping them healthy. Kudo's as well to MR. Joyce for providing a way for a user to legally obtain a cycle at least from their end and looking after their health with bloodwork. I will have to point out one last thing that DECA in no way is HRT.
DROID
This is getting old.
First of all Paul does not precribe anything. I am not a DR. therefore cannot prescribe Drugs. My Doctors, after reviewing blood work and a physical examination will precribe if warrented.
We also offer a great service for women. Our pharmacy employs two very qualified female hormone replacement specialist. We have a questionaire that the patient fills out and they get a free consultation via the telephone.
Let me be clear about who I am. I am a 42 year old father of three that a few years ago demonstrated signs of low testosterone. Sure enough I had my blood work taken and it was low. I started therapy and it changed my life. I saw a business opportunity where I could make money and help others in my same condition. The big dilema is that there are lots of guys that want these meds for body building purposes and it is strictly illegal to prescibe for that purpose. Sometimes it is hard to determine what someones real intent is for seeking therapy.
In closing, I am not the steroid pushing monster that a certain someone has painted me to be. I genuinely care about the health and well being of our patients. I have done business with only two people from these boards and both have been heard.
someone is about to learn that before you make defamatory comments and lies you better get your facts straight. Swale has never and I mean never taken over a patient from us as he stated. How do I know. Because all of our patients are local people that I know and have a personal relationship with other then the two people you have heard from on here. So for him to make that statment is a lie. When you lie and hurt someones reputation there are consequences.
I am in the process of setting up a national network of Doctors. I see the anti-aging industry exploding and I want to be positioned to take advantage of that in the most ethical way. The key is to get qualified Medical Doctors that have a keen understanding in HRT. My Medical Director as you will learn is well versed in this area.
I know I said this before , but this really is my last posting. Anything you hear from my company in the future will be from my medical director or doctors.
First of all Paul does not precribe anything. I am not a DR. therefore cannot prescribe Drugs. My Doctors, after reviewing blood work and a physical examination will precribe if warrented.
We also offer a great service for women. Our pharmacy employs two very qualified female hormone replacement specialist. We have a questionaire that the patient fills out and they get a free consultation via the telephone.
Let me be clear about who I am. I am a 42 year old father of three that a few years ago demonstrated signs of low testosterone. Sure enough I had my blood work taken and it was low. I started therapy and it changed my life. I saw a business opportunity where I could make money and help others in my same condition. The big dilema is that there are lots of guys that want these meds for body building purposes and it is strictly illegal to prescibe for that purpose. Sometimes it is hard to determine what someones real intent is for seeking therapy.
In closing, I am not the steroid pushing monster that a certain someone has painted me to be. I genuinely care about the health and well being of our patients. I have done business with only two people from these boards and both have been heard.
someone is about to learn that before you make defamatory comments and lies you better get your facts straight. Swale has never and I mean never taken over a patient from us as he stated. How do I know. Because all of our patients are local people that I know and have a personal relationship with other then the two people you have heard from on here. So for him to make that statment is a lie. When you lie and hurt someones reputation there are consequences.
I am in the process of setting up a national network of Doctors. I see the anti-aging industry exploding and I want to be positioned to take advantage of that in the most ethical way. The key is to get qualified Medical Doctors that have a keen understanding in HRT. My Medical Director as you will learn is well versed in this area.
I know I said this before , but this really is my last posting. Anything you hear from my company in the future will be from my medical director or doctors.
pfjoy said:
I can understand your frustration but if "THE PHONE GUY" is a patient of your clinic and his rendition of your conversation is accurate then he is describing you as a steroid pusher. I am only pointing out the obvious that has been said as I do not know you nor do I mean anything negative. I would like to wish the best to you as your are offering a service Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) or otherwise that will help keep bros safe and healthy.
DROID
It kind of looks to me that this thread has turned into an advertisement for the PB guys. But that is okay with me. If you want to buy steroids, go to them. Their customers are not the kind of men who I would treat anyway. I have lost patients because they either thought they could talk me into damaging their health by prescribing harmful doses of testosterone, or thought they could fool me into same. Well, 'Ol Doc has been around the block a few too many times for that to happen. My guys are interested in optimizing their health--and that DOES NOT happen once you go above the top of normal range. To suggest otherwise is a gross misrepresentation, to the detriment of the public, as it is NOT Anti-Aging Medicine. NO legitimate authority on this subject would ever say it is. I say again, if you just want to look for excuses to try to legitimize the open sale of steroids, then go there. That has absolutely nothing to do with me.
For those who do use steroids, I cannot offer them to you. All I can provide are the post cycle therapy (pct) protocols I have developed, which some of the fellas have found to be helpful, and monitoring of health along the way, hormonal assessment during recovery, day-by-day dosage adjustments, all the ancillaries, etc. And BTW, I have never charged my patients a single penny as profit for providing them with a delivered package of their meds. I do this exclusively to help them out, and to save them from the Black market (as much as I legally can), and those operators out there who are making a HUGE profit (some as much as 3000%--no, that was not a typo) for distributing inferior compounded medications.
I also see some more totally unfounded accusations directed at me here, again, either from those who just want to make money, or simply do not know anything about the medicine involved. This can be expected too, I guess.
As to the qualifications involved (by jboldman's post), let me pose a simple question: how many docs out there, with tons of credentials, refuse to treat anyone if they EVER took steroids? Haven't we seen post after post here, and elswhere, complaining about the PCP or even the Endocrinologist who has tons of training and so forth who does not know anything about this (or worse yet, claims to know things which are absolutely untrue?) For instance, those who make statements such as "If you take steroids, they will kill you", or "If you take testosterone, even at testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) doses, it WILL give you cancer"? So I don't think anyone here will be too impressed by simple credentials alone, but rather have looked with disdain at doctors who simply want to rely upon the letters after their name, when everyone who knows anything about the subject at hand will not respect them simply for that reason. Indeed, we have learned to instead separate the BS from the buckwheat, and try to find out what the doc REALLY knows.
A good example is provided by the physician who heads the NIH's Male Aging Studies Division (I apologize in that the actual name of that department eludes me at this time). He is an Endocrinologist, also a PhD I think, with more letters after his name than there are in the entire alphabet. What did he have to say about testosterone replacement therapy (TRT)? "No man, no matter how low his testosterone level may be, should EVER be given testosterone supplementation" (I am paraphrasing, because I do not have time to find and watch his interview at this time). Now, who here thinks that his credentials mean we should all bow down and accept his word?
BTW, this a different doctor than JGUNS told me is their CMO. I wonder why that would be. Glaringly absent is any mention of affiliation with any Anti-Aging Medicine governing body, i.e. A4m, A3R, etc. And I can tell you, too, that there is absolutely nothing exceptional about his resume. In fact, it is quite common amongst doctors--doctors who really know what they are doing, and those who do not. Medicine looks a lot different from the inside. Trust me.
So jboldman is now a proponent of "The Establishment"? Well, he would be the LAST guy I would expect to take that bent. Are the rest of us?
And I can tell you that NO doctor who is selling steroids is ever going to impress me. Dr. Ramon Scruggs has some pretty impressive credentials, too--and look what he has done to himself by doing this. And some of use are aware of a certain physician in Texas who is in hot water there for prescribing steroids. BTW, he brags on his website that his post cycle therapy (pct) protocols "are the most advanced found anywhere", while he still recommends super-high doses of HCG (and we all know better than that now, don't we?)!
Unfortunately, there are those within my profession, to the embarrassment of the rest of us, who have sold out to the Almighty Dollar. And calling the extremely proftiable sale of steroids legitimate Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) Medicine is also a real sell-out. They just make it that much harder for those of us who truly care about the health and well-being of our patients to promote this new field of medicine. Those of us who see testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) for what it is believe it to be the single biggest improvement in mens' health in the history of medicine. And we are totally dedicated to spreading its good word throughout the medical community. The charlatans out there who are only trying to make money make the hill that much steeper for us.
Those who have come here to advertise for PB may say whatever ungracious things they want to. All they really have done is openly post information which the DEA is now reading. And in the end, it really does not matter to me or my good patients.
But I would like to turn this exclusively to a discussion of the medicine involved, because that is totally my gripe with charlatans such as these. These guys are "cycling" their testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). This is a Stone Age protocol, even by Anti-Aging standards, as it makes absolutely no sense. Anyone who gives this any thought would just automatically figure this out. And how do they use Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG)? And as DROID astutely posted, Deca has absolutely no place in testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) Medicine (except in some cases of treatment for wasting diseases). Its side effect profile is far too nasty for our purposes (we are not talking about steroid cycles here). I have treated literally dozens of men who became impotent long-term from its use. This is common knowledge on the Boards. Have they developed any brand new cutting-edge protocols for administering testosterone replacement therapy (TRT)? Do they even know of any? I have created two already--which are gaining acceptance internationally, and rapidly brought me invitations to speak on them all over the world, training other doctors on how to best provide good, healthful TRT.
The Medical History they take is a joke, and they do not even require a physical examination by a competent physician. This is a gross violation of medical ethics. Do they require regular Digital Rectal Exams for their patients over the age of, say, 45? Well, what is going to happen when one of their guys develops prostate cancer (as about 1-in-10 men will), and the testosterone they have irresponsibly provided makes it quickly grow and spread throughout their body? That immediately also takes their program from the realm of appropriate medicine. My Medical History is 144 questions, and I am adding more all the time, compared to what is basically a java applet they run. I follow up with the patient on many of the questions, extensively, and also provide detailed advice following careful evaulation of their diet and exercise program. My patients will tell you that we work very closely together. I think they will also admit we have a pretty good time doing it. But, hey, this is just the way it SHOULD be.
I am also actively involved in developing new protocols, purposefully meant to reduce the risk of prostate cancer and other serious diseases. My patients therfore have instant access to the most cutting-edge stuff out there. I can tell you that the very first patient I tried this on reported that his long-standing hard gyno nodules completely disappeared within about ten days. And he is a doctor himself (I administer the testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) to quite a few doctors, including fellow Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) Physicians), so I trust his palpatory skills. Now, that is just one case, so we cannot hang our hats on it (yet), but it sure was an eye-opener, and made us very excited to expand the testing.
BTW, recomending saw palmetto to EVERY male, as they do, is a mistake, IMPO. You are more likely to induce impotence than treat them for a medical condition they do not even have.
I offered to get their docs up to speed on this form of medicine, after hearing how they do things, but "pfjoy" was just not interested. In fact, I would be happy to provide them with a copy of my paper "My Current Best Thoughts on How to Administer testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) For Men--A Recipe for Success". They would then have access to the most-cutting edge testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) protocols available anywhere. I would even send it to them for free, so they do not have to spend $225 on the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine 2004 Therapeutics Manual it is published in.
So anyone who thinks--irrespective of any credentialling in totally unrelated fields of medicine--that they can compare the quality of care that I provide to theirs is misinformed. I don't mean to sound ungracious, but this is the simple truth.
Please understand that I simply CANNOT be involved with these guys. You have no idea how much flak and heat I catch, on a regular basis, secondary to my decison to work with steroid athletes. I swear, doctors' minds can be the most closed and ignorant of anyone's out there. I am literally shunned by some local physicians--even some of those who were formally my trainers--because of my involvement in trying to protect the health of steroid athletes. It is if the word "steroid" makes me, I don't know, like a child molester or something. Would they be happier if I were treating heroin addicts? Yes, I think, they would find that much more acceptible.
As the Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) Forums I have started, and worked so hard on (often after a 16 hour day) were founded EXCLUSIVELY to promote mens health, I cannot have them transformed into a medium for selling steroids. That is not why I spent all that time to get them going. And I cannot withstand the extra heat of a known professioanal asociation with charlatan steroid dealers. So it was not a "financial decision", as several who are trying to make apologies for their own actions have tried to paint me. It is instead ALL about professional morals and ethics, and standing firmly upon principle, even when you are being criticized unfairly for it.
For those of you who are here who just want to go there to buy steroids, then none of this is of any consequence to you anyway. But please do all that you can to make sure you are getting adequate nutrition, and use your ancillaries, and do your post cycle therapy (pct) appropriately. You are welcome to use my protocols, that is why I freely posted them here as a sticky. I do care very much for your health and well-being.
What I am doing here is simply what I do before the established medical community: fighting for mens' health. It is kind of weird, and unexpected, catching it from both sides, though, I must admit.
For those who do use steroids, I cannot offer them to you. All I can provide are the post cycle therapy (pct) protocols I have developed, which some of the fellas have found to be helpful, and monitoring of health along the way, hormonal assessment during recovery, day-by-day dosage adjustments, all the ancillaries, etc. And BTW, I have never charged my patients a single penny as profit for providing them with a delivered package of their meds. I do this exclusively to help them out, and to save them from the Black market (as much as I legally can), and those operators out there who are making a HUGE profit (some as much as 3000%--no, that was not a typo) for distributing inferior compounded medications.
I also see some more totally unfounded accusations directed at me here, again, either from those who just want to make money, or simply do not know anything about the medicine involved. This can be expected too, I guess.
As to the qualifications involved (by jboldman's post), let me pose a simple question: how many docs out there, with tons of credentials, refuse to treat anyone if they EVER took steroids? Haven't we seen post after post here, and elswhere, complaining about the PCP or even the Endocrinologist who has tons of training and so forth who does not know anything about this (or worse yet, claims to know things which are absolutely untrue?) For instance, those who make statements such as "If you take steroids, they will kill you", or "If you take testosterone, even at testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) doses, it WILL give you cancer"? So I don't think anyone here will be too impressed by simple credentials alone, but rather have looked with disdain at doctors who simply want to rely upon the letters after their name, when everyone who knows anything about the subject at hand will not respect them simply for that reason. Indeed, we have learned to instead separate the BS from the buckwheat, and try to find out what the doc REALLY knows.
A good example is provided by the physician who heads the NIH's Male Aging Studies Division (I apologize in that the actual name of that department eludes me at this time). He is an Endocrinologist, also a PhD I think, with more letters after his name than there are in the entire alphabet. What did he have to say about testosterone replacement therapy (TRT)? "No man, no matter how low his testosterone level may be, should EVER be given testosterone supplementation" (I am paraphrasing, because I do not have time to find and watch his interview at this time). Now, who here thinks that his credentials mean we should all bow down and accept his word?
BTW, this a different doctor than JGUNS told me is their CMO. I wonder why that would be. Glaringly absent is any mention of affiliation with any Anti-Aging Medicine governing body, i.e. A4m, A3R, etc. And I can tell you, too, that there is absolutely nothing exceptional about his resume. In fact, it is quite common amongst doctors--doctors who really know what they are doing, and those who do not. Medicine looks a lot different from the inside. Trust me.
So jboldman is now a proponent of "The Establishment"? Well, he would be the LAST guy I would expect to take that bent. Are the rest of us?
And I can tell you that NO doctor who is selling steroids is ever going to impress me. Dr. Ramon Scruggs has some pretty impressive credentials, too--and look what he has done to himself by doing this. And some of use are aware of a certain physician in Texas who is in hot water there for prescribing steroids. BTW, he brags on his website that his post cycle therapy (pct) protocols "are the most advanced found anywhere", while he still recommends super-high doses of HCG (and we all know better than that now, don't we?)!
Unfortunately, there are those within my profession, to the embarrassment of the rest of us, who have sold out to the Almighty Dollar. And calling the extremely proftiable sale of steroids legitimate Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) Medicine is also a real sell-out. They just make it that much harder for those of us who truly care about the health and well-being of our patients to promote this new field of medicine. Those of us who see testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) for what it is believe it to be the single biggest improvement in mens' health in the history of medicine. And we are totally dedicated to spreading its good word throughout the medical community. The charlatans out there who are only trying to make money make the hill that much steeper for us.
Those who have come here to advertise for PB may say whatever ungracious things they want to. All they really have done is openly post information which the DEA is now reading. And in the end, it really does not matter to me or my good patients.
But I would like to turn this exclusively to a discussion of the medicine involved, because that is totally my gripe with charlatans such as these. These guys are "cycling" their testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). This is a Stone Age protocol, even by Anti-Aging standards, as it makes absolutely no sense. Anyone who gives this any thought would just automatically figure this out. And how do they use Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG)? And as DROID astutely posted, Deca has absolutely no place in testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) Medicine (except in some cases of treatment for wasting diseases). Its side effect profile is far too nasty for our purposes (we are not talking about steroid cycles here). I have treated literally dozens of men who became impotent long-term from its use. This is common knowledge on the Boards. Have they developed any brand new cutting-edge protocols for administering testosterone replacement therapy (TRT)? Do they even know of any? I have created two already--which are gaining acceptance internationally, and rapidly brought me invitations to speak on them all over the world, training other doctors on how to best provide good, healthful TRT.
The Medical History they take is a joke, and they do not even require a physical examination by a competent physician. This is a gross violation of medical ethics. Do they require regular Digital Rectal Exams for their patients over the age of, say, 45? Well, what is going to happen when one of their guys develops prostate cancer (as about 1-in-10 men will), and the testosterone they have irresponsibly provided makes it quickly grow and spread throughout their body? That immediately also takes their program from the realm of appropriate medicine. My Medical History is 144 questions, and I am adding more all the time, compared to what is basically a java applet they run. I follow up with the patient on many of the questions, extensively, and also provide detailed advice following careful evaulation of their diet and exercise program. My patients will tell you that we work very closely together. I think they will also admit we have a pretty good time doing it. But, hey, this is just the way it SHOULD be.
I am also actively involved in developing new protocols, purposefully meant to reduce the risk of prostate cancer and other serious diseases. My patients therfore have instant access to the most cutting-edge stuff out there. I can tell you that the very first patient I tried this on reported that his long-standing hard gyno nodules completely disappeared within about ten days. And he is a doctor himself (I administer the testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) to quite a few doctors, including fellow Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) Physicians), so I trust his palpatory skills. Now, that is just one case, so we cannot hang our hats on it (yet), but it sure was an eye-opener, and made us very excited to expand the testing.
BTW, recomending saw palmetto to EVERY male, as they do, is a mistake, IMPO. You are more likely to induce impotence than treat them for a medical condition they do not even have.
I offered to get their docs up to speed on this form of medicine, after hearing how they do things, but "pfjoy" was just not interested. In fact, I would be happy to provide them with a copy of my paper "My Current Best Thoughts on How to Administer testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) For Men--A Recipe for Success". They would then have access to the most-cutting edge testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) protocols available anywhere. I would even send it to them for free, so they do not have to spend $225 on the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine 2004 Therapeutics Manual it is published in.
So anyone who thinks--irrespective of any credentialling in totally unrelated fields of medicine--that they can compare the quality of care that I provide to theirs is misinformed. I don't mean to sound ungracious, but this is the simple truth.
Please understand that I simply CANNOT be involved with these guys. You have no idea how much flak and heat I catch, on a regular basis, secondary to my decison to work with steroid athletes. I swear, doctors' minds can be the most closed and ignorant of anyone's out there. I am literally shunned by some local physicians--even some of those who were formally my trainers--because of my involvement in trying to protect the health of steroid athletes. It is if the word "steroid" makes me, I don't know, like a child molester or something. Would they be happier if I were treating heroin addicts? Yes, I think, they would find that much more acceptible.
As the Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) Forums I have started, and worked so hard on (often after a 16 hour day) were founded EXCLUSIVELY to promote mens health, I cannot have them transformed into a medium for selling steroids. That is not why I spent all that time to get them going. And I cannot withstand the extra heat of a known professioanal asociation with charlatan steroid dealers. So it was not a "financial decision", as several who are trying to make apologies for their own actions have tried to paint me. It is instead ALL about professional morals and ethics, and standing firmly upon principle, even when you are being criticized unfairly for it.
For those of you who are here who just want to go there to buy steroids, then none of this is of any consequence to you anyway. But please do all that you can to make sure you are getting adequate nutrition, and use your ancillaries, and do your post cycle therapy (pct) appropriately. You are welcome to use my protocols, that is why I freely posted them here as a sticky. I do care very much for your health and well-being.
What I am doing here is simply what I do before the established medical community: fighting for mens' health. It is kind of weird, and unexpected, catching it from both sides, though, I must admit.
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Being on the same message board does not "associate" you with everyone on that board. I know you have made up your mind, but I would suggest that you would be more helpfull to mens health if you were to stay on the boards and make your arguments as the issues come up... Just my unprofessional opinion...
Dustoff1--Actually, it would. And we are talking about a specific Forum, not the entire board. This is just not an area you have the experience to understand, but I do appreciate your thoughts, just the same.
Besides that, why on earth would I want to donate my time to people (the Owner/Administrator) who have now treated me so badly? Trust me, if you saw the emails JGUNS sent me, as well as the correspondences by this pfjoy guy, AND and with the complete mischaracterization (I am being kind here) of the situation, you would feel the same way.
Besides, there are good Bro's all over the 'Net who DO appreciate my efforts, and I truly enjoy their good company.
Besides that, why on earth would I want to donate my time to people (the Owner/Administrator) who have now treated me so badly? Trust me, if you saw the emails JGUNS sent me, as well as the correspondences by this pfjoy guy, AND and with the complete mischaracterization (I am being kind here) of the situation, you would feel the same way.
Besides, there are good Bro's all over the 'Net who DO appreciate my efforts, and I truly enjoy their good company.
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"SIGH"! I had no intention of provoking you one way or the other swale, you may notice that i have pretty much stayed above the fray. My post on Dr. Joyce's credentials was in response to a previous post questioning whether or not dr. James was a "Dr." I actually thought mentioning that you do the same would dispell any question that you are a "real" doc (you are!) and allow you to show your affilliations which i assume you must have since you point out the important ones are missing from Dr. James.
Please do not mischaracterize me or my post, i think you know i am anything BUT pro-establishment. Once again, i believe that the simple solution here is that you have made your decsion, i understand it and respect it. Mudslinging does no one any good and has to end up reflecting badly on everyone involved. I would really like to see a debate between the two of you since that is what seems to be at issue here, basic medical and legal philosophies, but, once again, I can respect your decision not to engage in one if that is your wish.
It is my sincere hope that this thread dies a timely death since nothing productive seems to be coming from it and i am sure you have much better things to do with your time.
jb
Please do not mischaracterize me or my post, i think you know i am anything BUT pro-establishment. Once again, i believe that the simple solution here is that you have made your decsion, i understand it and respect it. Mudslinging does no one any good and has to end up reflecting badly on everyone involved. I would really like to see a debate between the two of you since that is what seems to be at issue here, basic medical and legal philosophies, but, once again, I can respect your decision not to engage in one if that is your wish.
It is my sincere hope that this thread dies a timely death since nothing productive seems to be coming from it and i am sure you have much better things to do with your time.
jb
jboldman--No offense meant, Bro. Your poignant words speak volumes of you. I would have been truly been disappointed if you were suddenly "conforming" (he and I are both dating ourselves using this lingo).
Okay, let's have it. I am rolling up my sleaves. I am calling out these PB guys to bring forth their their VERY BEST Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) guy for a good 'ol fashioned throw down. Let the games begin!
I'm waiting...
Okay, let's have it. I am rolling up my sleaves. I am calling out these PB guys to bring forth their their VERY BEST Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) guy for a good 'ol fashioned throw down. Let the games begin!
I'm waiting...
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